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2016-11-09 10:59 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Hey DMiller.  I want you start by saying I hear where you are coming from with the sexual assault issues.  I can only imagine what I would do if my daughter was assaulted.  And I do feel that it made Trump a flawed candidate  (I would term him morally corrupt).  What I'd honestly like your opinion on is wouldn't electing someone who is a corrupt criminal such as Hillary be the same thing saying that being ethcially corrupt is o.k.?

I know the easy thing to do is argue that Hillary was cleared by the FBI, but that is as weak as saying that Trump wasn't charged for sexual assault.  Both were very flawed.

I honestly decided that ethics were more important than morals....



2016-11-09 11:01 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by velocomp

Hey DMiller.  I want you start by saying I hear where you are coming from with the sexual assault issues.  I can only imagine what I would do if my daughter was assaulted.  And I do feel that it made Trump a flawed candidate  (I would term him morally corrupt).  What I'd honestly like your opinion on is wouldn't electing someone who is a corrupt criminal such as Hillary be the same thing saying that being ethcially corrupt is o.k.?

I know the easy thing to do is argue that Hillary was cleared by the FBI, but that is as weak as saying that Trump wasn't charged for sexual assault.  Both were very flawed.

I honestly decided that ethics were more important than morals....

Hillary was not my candidate of choice.  I wanted Bernie. I also want the heads of the entire DNC.

That being said, the environment, immigration, LGBT rights, the fact that Trump has said he will use nuclear weapons.  These are things that made it impossible for me to vote against her. 

2016-11-10 1:49 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Yay!!!  I see we are back to protests blocking highways, setting fires, and damaging property......complete with a few cops injured by flying bottles, bricks, etc.  I guess someone forgot to tell those boneheads that this is EXACTLY what set the wheels in motion to elect the guy they are protesting against. So much for the seamless transfer of power and graciousness that the Dems were so up in arms about when Trump said he didn't know if he would concede.  You just can't make this stuff up, and.........

you can't fix youth.......or stupid.

2016-11-10 7:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Election 2016
nm

Edited by Rogillio 2016-11-10 7:54 AM
2016-11-10 8:15 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by Left Brain

Yay!!!  I see we are back to protests blocking highways, setting fires, and damaging property......complete with a few cops injured by flying bottles, bricks, etc.  I guess someone forgot to tell those boneheads that this is EXACTLY what set the wheels in motion to elect the guy they are protesting against. So much for the seamless transfer of power and graciousness that the Dems were so up in arms about when Trump said he didn't know if he would concede.  You just can't make this stuff up, and.........

you can't fix youth.......or stupid.

Hillary did do her part in her speech...but yes you can't fix stupid.  Theres is a way to protest, and that is not burning your city down.

2016-11-10 9:03 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system.

We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!


2016-11-10 9:21 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!

I have no idea why some people can't figure that out. 

2016-11-10 10:36 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!

I have no idea why some people can't figure that out. 




Common Core

2016-11-10 10:45 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Well, it’s a brand new world, and I admit-- I never thought I'd see the day.

It’s been a long, and hard-fought campaign, and I don’t think that even those on the winning side can say they weren’t at least a little surprised. In the end, all the prognostication and analysis doesn’t matter, and it’s only the final score that counts.

For everyone on the losing side, it’s a shock. No doubt. But that’s how it goes in this country. Someone wins, someone loses and you take your lumps and move on. You hope at the end of the day you can say that your side did their best, and you start looking forward to the next contest. You have to take a hard look at your weaknesses and decide what you can fix and what you can live with. And as bitter a contest as this was, I hope that at least most of the supporters on both sides can take the high road.

There is definitely a lot of anger on the losing side that's being directed in inappropriate ways, but I don’t really get that. We all have to live together, no matter which side you’re on. In the end, our similarities far outweigh the differences.

Either way, it’s a new reality. I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that I never thought I’d see this in a million years, but I guess I’d better get used to saying it:

The Chicago Cubs are World Champions.


Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2016-11-10 10:55 AM
2016-11-10 11:29 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by tuwood
Originally posted by dmiller5

thank you both for allowing this to progress into a real conversation.

 

i know the broken home bad upbringing argument...and that is definitely true.  however, the well off white kids from nuclear families all over my college campus committed these crimes constantly.  and that i believe is due to learned behaviors from popular culture and society.

White rich neighborhoods have the same problems but different manifestations. A father who works all day every day and neglects his kids or drives them towards relentless success is every bit as bad as an inner city house that had a father in prison or beats their kid. From a sex addiction problem I find it worse in the richer neighborhoods where the inner city kids tend to be more violent robbery/assault type crimes.

so serious question. poor people  want higher minimum wage  so that they can make a living to support their family.  you say they should work harder, 2 jobs, 3 jobs and get ahead.  What are they doing while working these 2 jobs? neglecting their children who in turn are becoming worse members of society.  Isn't this an argument for social programs, a minimum wage, etc?




Maybe consider getting your act together before you start breeding? Plan ahead? My parents failed to do that and in all honesty my life could have gone either direction. They had it harder than they should have just by adding children to the mix right after marriage. Got married right after Mom graduated HS too. They weren't ready financially, mentally or socially to raise a family. I rely on a rule of thumb when it comes to dealing with events in my family life; what would mom and dad have done? If i choose the opposite decision, I usually have the right path. Not that they were bad people, they just didn't know better. I can't fix or dwell on their mistakes, but i can learn from them.

I didn't have our first until i was 35. I still wasn't mature enough, but were were financially stable and the added financial burden didn't send the household into a tailspin. After roughly 18 months, my wife was able to quit her job so she could stay home and raise the kids. What is the old saying? Don't make your lack of planning my emergency? Yeah, I'm sorry you don't come from a sixth generation college degreed family, but nothing is stopping poor Americans from changing the family tree but their own poor decision making process. Hundreds of programs exist that teach family planning. Ever heard of Planned Parenthood. There are race specific programs that provide free college money to every ethnic/racial group in this country.

I'm not suggesting that poor Americans are all lazy either. Heck, even after going to trade school and getting my licenses, I got a job making 5 bucks an hour in my chosen field. Even back in 1984, that sucked. But I went to work and eventually found a job paying 8.25 an hour and within a few years I was making more and more. I could have tossed in the towel like my sh*thead cousin and started drawing checks from the government, but i chose to work. Choices and planning. Use social programs as a hand up, not as a path for for your life. So many have it backwards though. They plan their life path based on long term reliance on social programs.

That's just government sanctioned slavery IMO. Keep electing us and we'll keep sending out barely enough $$ to live on. Vote for them and they'll take your $$ away and make you earn it. That's the political message I kept hearing out of the HRC and Bernie camps. Even in her speech yesterday, Hilarry kept mentioning the inequality women and children face today. Keep voting for me and mine and we'll keep up the fight….blah blah blah. Equality is there, the programs are there. It's time to put a time limit on the programs in order to make them function properly. If I know I need to get my act together within 3 years of getting my first free check, I'll probably plan accordingly. If i know I don't have to do a thing and the check will keep coming, I'm not changing a thing and my bleak future is set for me, by people who never dare come into my neighborhood until the next election cycle.
2016-11-10 11:59 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 



2016-11-10 12:04 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 

If that happens.....you'll never see another Democrat Party President.  Have you seen the county by county red/blue National map? We are a sea of red.  And I'm all for the republican candidate getting some of the votes in Ca. and NY.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-11-10 12:04 PM
2016-11-10 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by tuwood

Sorry, couldn't resist.  I'm still going with 5% Trump win in the popular and here's my map prediction:





I have declared a winner on BT. Final votes (assuming MI, AZ and VT don't flip in a recount):

306 Trump

232 Hillary

Tony was within 3 electoral votes.

Edited by Rogillio 2016-11-10 12:09 PM
2016-11-10 12:10 PM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 




That would change it a bit, but the same flaw would remain. Campaigns could still be run the same way they are now. Candidates would still focus on specific regions and ignore the rest of the areas that they have wrapped up already. People with access to the pursestrings can still shower $$ and favor in needed areas with deliberate focus and do so quite effectively. One person, one vote or leave it alone.
2016-11-10 12:42 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by mdg2003

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 




That would change it a bit, but the same flaw would remain. Campaigns could still be run the same way they are now. Candidates would still focus on specific regions and ignore the rest of the areas that they have wrapped up already. People with access to the pursestrings can still shower $$ and favor in needed areas with deliberate focus and do so quite effectively. One person, one vote or leave it alone.


One person one vote implies we are a democracy. We are not. We are a representive republic. How states are represented is proportional to the population but not directly tied to population. Do what you want to do in CA but people in ND have different values. I favor smaller federal gov. There should not be federal education laws. Education is best handled by the states.
2016-11-10 1:23 PM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 

 

Personally I feel this is the most fair way to do it, but if you do some googling on the topic the democrats are staunchly opposed to it because it massively tips the scales to republicans.  Romney would have beat Obama in 2012 if it was split up via congressional districts. 
States like CA which is currently an automatic 55 votes for Dems would only net something like 20 or 25 because of so many republican leaning areas in the state. 



2016-11-10 1:24 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 

 

Personally I feel this is the most fair way to do it, but if you do some googling on the topic the democrats are staunchly opposed to it because it massively tips the scales to republicans.  Romney would have beat Obama in 2012 if it was split up via congressional districts. 
States like CA which is currently an automatic 55 votes for Dems would only net something like 20 or 25 because of so many republican leaning areas in the state. 

that's because the congressional districts were gerrymandered by the republicans

2016-11-10 1:26 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 

That would change it a bit, but the same flaw would remain. Campaigns could still be run the same way they are now. Candidates would still focus on specific regions and ignore the rest of the areas that they have wrapped up already. People with access to the pursestrings can still shower $$ and favor in needed areas with deliberate focus and do so quite effectively. One person, one vote or leave it alone.
One person one vote implies we are a democracy. We are not. We are a representive republic. How states are represented is proportional to the population but not directly tied to population. Do what you want to do in CA but people in ND have different values. I favor smaller federal gov. There should not be federal education laws. Education is best handled by the states.

I read yesterday about how the popular vote can be misleading because the GOP candidate never campaigns or runs adds in the heavy population centers so the popular vote in those regions is naturally lower than it could be.  As an example when I lived in Chicago I was conservative and voted in the primaries but never even bothered to vote in the general because it made zero difference.

2016-11-10 1:29 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by dmiller5

the election is over, i'm not talking about the vote anymore.  i'm just talking about people's reaction to what he said.  I dated someone who was raped by a man  in college, she didn't "resist" because of how terrified she was. Did she let him do it? NO.  It was one of the most painful things I have ever heard, from someone I loved.  Maybe its too soon to talk to you guys about this because the election just happened.  I'm trying to focus on issues that we can try and come together and make progress on.  I know too many women who have been assaulted, and too many men who talk the way trump does.  Its not coincidence my friends, its the sad reality of our country. 

I know you say its a conservative view Tony, but I actually don't want to hide children from this.  I want them to see it and hear it.  And then I want our society to shun the people who act that way and show them that you don't get anywhere if you do this.

 

And guess what LB, I wasn't alive for most of the men you named, or old enough to have an opinion on Bill Clinton when that happened, but you can believe me when I tell you I take this issue seriously regardless of political affiliation.

I know what you're trying to say, but in effect you're describing that you don't want people to act this way as your ultimate goal.  However, your method is more of a treat the symptom by shutting them down through shunning/shame.  Sure, that can make the outward expression of sexism go away, but it doesn't change the underlying desires in those people.
The way you truly fix the issue is to address the root causes which are based in early childhood development and poor families.  If the behavior isn't there in the first place there's no need to shout it down or shun it. 

2016-11-10 1:38 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by tuwood
Originally posted by dmiller5

thank you both for allowing this to progress into a real conversation.

 

i know the broken home bad upbringing argument...and that is definitely true.  however, the well off white kids from nuclear families all over my college campus committed these crimes constantly.  and that i believe is due to learned behaviors from popular culture and society.

White rich neighborhoods have the same problems but different manifestations. A father who works all day every day and neglects his kids or drives them towards relentless success is every bit as bad as an inner city house that had a father in prison or beats their kid. From a sex addiction problem I find it worse in the richer neighborhoods where the inner city kids tend to be more violent robbery/assault type crimes.

so serious question. poor people  want higher minimum wage  so that they can make a living to support their family.  you say they should work harder, 2 jobs, 3 jobs and get ahead.  What are they doing while working these 2 jobs? neglecting their children who in turn are becoming worse members of society.  Isn't this an argument for social programs, a minimum wage, etc?

The minimum wage debate is yet another symptom treating strategy that doesn't truly address any problems.  I think we can likely agree that no person who is living on a minimum wage job today is going to be financially successful in the long term and it really doesn't matter what that minimum wage is.
The economics argument is that if you pay everyone in a poor neighborhood $15/hr. and force all the businesses to pay that then they'll add the additional wages into the cost of the products.  So you make an extra $50 a week, but you spend the extra $50 on gas/groceries/etc and there's really no net change.

That being said, the problem in the inner city is not a job problem or even a minimum wage problem.  What we have is an employability problem.  I do a lot of volunteer work and financially support an organization in North Omaha (the hood) that focuses exclusively on teaching the most basic of job skills such as showing up to work on time and learning to make eye contact and carry on a conversation.  It sounds ridiculous, but you have no idea how horrible many of the inner city family and school situations are.  These poor kids simply don't have a chance no matter how much you make the minimum wage.

The difference maker is having a mother and a father that love their kids and encourage them to do better in life.  What so many people in our government have done is effectively tell these kids that they are not going to amount to anything so their only hope is permanent government assistance in exchange for their vote.

I have talked many times about my upbringing where I fought my way out of a poverty upbringing.  I lived in the white hood known as the trailer park.  Lots of trouble to be had and I was surrounded by people trying to keep me down.  You'll never amount to anything, don't go do school, here's some drugs, hey lets go rob this store, etc. etc.  
The one and only thing that got me out of there was a Father who loved me like no other and always told me how great I was and how I was going to be successful in life.  I had a cheerleader and unconditional love and it as all I needed.  This is what the charities I work with try to do to these kids.  We let them know there are people who do love them and we cheer them on at every step of the way.  I could tell you some amazing stories of kids who have graduated college and moved on to great careers because they were simply given hope. 

2016-11-10 1:42 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Rogillio People complaining about the electoral college and thinking we need to go to the popular vote need to understand the electoral system. We are a nation of sovereign states. If we elected the POTUS by popular vote, CA alone (with 39 million people) would have more voting power than the combined voting power of 21 states!
What if we were to change it to mimic Maine and Nebraska where the Electoral Votes per state are divided based on vote's obtained by the candidates? 

 

Personally I feel this is the most fair way to do it, but if you do some googling on the topic the democrats are staunchly opposed to it because it massively tips the scales to republicans.  Romney would have beat Obama in 2012 if it was split up via congressional districts. 
States like CA which is currently an automatic 55 votes for Dems would only net something like 20 or 25 because of so many republican leaning areas in the state. 

that's because the congressional districts were gerrymandered by the republicans

Yes and no.  I do agree that there has been gerrymandering by both parties, but the changes are made by state legislatures and Republicans dominate State and Local Governments nationally.  I don't feel it's crazy out of hand though because geographically there is a ton more square miles that are red than blue.  The blue concentrations are far greater in the urban areas and you can only pack so many districts into a big city.



2016-11-10 1:44 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

My problem with most people who want to keep social programs for the poor in our inner cities as they are, or raise minimum wage for the same people, is THEY HAVE ACTUALLY NEVER SPENT A SINGLE DAY IN ONE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS OR TALKED TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

I'm convinced that most people who push these types of programs do it so they can feel better about themselves.....clueless as they may be.

2016-11-10 1:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Election 2016

Originally posted by Left Brain

My problem with most people who want to keep social programs for the poor in our inner cities as they are, or raise minimum wage for the same people, is THEY HAVE ACTUALLY NEVER SPENT A SINGLE DAY IN ONE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS OR TALKED TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

I'm convinced that most people who push these types of programs do it so they can feel better about themselves.....clueless as they may be.

Amen to that.  It has been life changing for me to get involved in the inner city.  The cool part is that the vast majority of people in the inner city are really great people, but they simply don't have any hope.  Brenda Council is a former state representative in Nebraska and she always would say that "for one who doesn't have hope, consequences mean nothing".  This is the foundation of the Hope Center which is the main charity I work with/through. 

2016-11-10 3:46 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
2016-11-10 5:02 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Election 2016
Originally posted by Hook'em




That's a bunch of BS.








Melania is much hotter than depicted here.
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