kalalau's Group - FULL for now (Page 6)

Reading through all the entries made me feel like I had BT on Tivo.  I am absorbing all your entries like a sponge.  Last Tuesday was my birthday and needless to say I was meeting up with all kinds of friends and family.  Idecided to take it easy and not do any formal training and just hit the gym with no program.  I decided to start the Sprint to Olympic program (the first one listed) and I will do the first 3 weeks.  At that point I will start the 8 week Olympic program as found in the Training Program section of BT.  I started to log my work outs and nutrition to keep track of what I am doing.  

 I am happy that I am not alone struggling with the swim. There seems to be so many moving parts and to get them all together.  At what point do you just go with what you are comfortable with?  I have been asking other swimmers for any advise or tips and everyone has something to offer.  I have not officially counted strokes, but I will do so in my next session.

 When should I start to incorporate nutrition training during my workouts.  I had read that a watered down Gatorade would work during the bike, but I tried that and I cannot get over the residue it leaves in my mouth.  It also makes it hard to breath. Does anyone have any opinions about gels or tablets?  I was also curious if any one wanted to share their supplement regiment.  I am just curious to see what you guys and gals do.

 I have so many questions being a complete novice.  I answer one question and three more pop in my head.  Equipment? Transitions? Where to start...?

 I appreciate the time that everyone is putting into this forum, lets keep it up!

Hahaha you are awesome.  I think that's a sign of maturity in your running, that you are fine with that idea, and being fine with the slower race time.

When the race starts. :-)  Otherwise you are working on your swim the rest of your life.  There is always something to refine.  It's like a golf swing, not that I play golf. :-)

I don't count strokes as a part of my normal swim; I use it as a drill to get the idea of being in that form, drilled into me.  I bet I would wear myself out if I tried to count strokes for a long period of time.  I should try that once.

I was wondering when I should bring that up.  I was thinking I might hold off bringing it up until someone got into a distance that required it (other than the folks here already in that state).

Are you watering down your Gatorade on the bike because of the taste?  I drink full gatorade (or whatever) on the bike.  Most of the races are going to have gatorade, so I try to make sure I can tolerate what they are going to have.  And in some races (the longer ones), eventually you are going to have to use the aid stations on the course.  But, for sprint and olympic distance, you can easily bring your own drink and be ok.  To find out what works for you, it's just a matter of trying different things.  I was trying Accelerade for a while, and that is fine, but it gets really foamy, and can smell like rotten eggs if you don't clean the bottle right away (and even if you do).  Right now I am using Heed and Perpetuem.  They are both Hammer products - Heed is for shorter distances (<3 hours?), Perpetuem longer.  My friend complained about Heed giving him stomach problems.  I haven't had that problem yet, and I like Heed.  I am happy with Perpetuem, but they say it gets really bad if you don't keep it cold.  Plus, it's pretty expensive.  I'm not sure I can handle it while running, but on the bike it seems to be working well.  I'd like to try another flavor than the orange I have.  I also like the GUO2 mix, but I haven't been using it lately beacuse I don't believe it has enough of what I need in the longer races. 

I've tried just about every gel out there.  My friend is a big believer in gels, enough to take one every 3 miles on a marathon.  I think that's a bit much, but what am I to say. :-)  The packets say every 30-45 minutes.  I heard Lance Armstrong took 13 of them for the NYC Marathon.  Anyway, I take GU, and mostly the banana and vanilla flavors because because you will be drinking so much sweetness, you are going to be sweetened out already.  But this is another area where you have to experiment and see what you like.  I take gels about every 5-6 miles on runs.

I have tried the Hammer gels, and they are fine, but they are rather bulky to be carrying around, especially for a long race.  Power Gels used to be really bad, but a few years ago they changed them and I am a believer now.  Clif gels are ok, nothing special except the super cool slot that lets you put them on belts and such.

For bike rides, I like taking Clif Shot Blocks.  There are a couple of other similar items out there.  It's like a small block of gummy bear substance, and contains the same stuff as gels.  Power bar just came out with "Power Blasts", which I tried and are ok.  They are a bit harder, and have a "blast" of liquid in the middle.  They are decent for a couple of times but would be tough to do a race with.

There are also "Sport beans" which are just jelly beans with additional nutrition added to make it similar to gel nutrition.  They taste fine (maybe even good) but I find it hard to eat solids during running or even biking sometimes.

I don't take salt tabs or endurolytes unless the distance is really long.  Like a half Ironman, or a marathon.  They are fine, but I think it risks dehydration because you have to make up for all that salt with something to drink (they say a whole bottle).  I might consider using them for smaller races if the weather was super hot, to make up for all the salt I am losing.

If I was to do a sprint, I would take one gel 15 minutes before the race.  I would have one gatorade in transition, one on the bike.  I would have one gel taped to my bike bar for the bike ride, and another gel in transition maybe to take on the run.  I haven't been drinking in transition lately, because that's costly time.  But I like to leave a bottle there in case I need it, and I would probably take it on the run with me.

For an olympic, I might not do too much different.  Depends on if they have a bottle exchange on the bike course.  I might have two bottles on the bike if they do not have an exchange.  Otherwise, just one.  I might consider a 2nd gel on the bike, and a 2nd gel on the run (maybe).

Longer distances would get crazier.  In general I like to do the jelly things on the bike, and gels on the run.  But the smaller races I can't do blocks on the bike, as it'll give me stomach issues/cramps on the run.  I have to stop eating shot blocks at least 30-45 minutes before the run starts.

Glad you are taking this all in!  See Abby, it's great that you ask newbie questions!

This is pretty generic and I have to get back to work. :-)  I'll dig some things up that will help with these.  It looks like you are the guy in our group closest to his/her big triathlon.  I guess it is time to bring this up.

Thanks for beginning to comment on this.  I had intended to ask about nutrition for a HIM, but was going to wait until closer to June 14.  I know what works for running for me, but I haven't tried much on the bike yet, and the HIM will be longer than my marathon by quite a bit.  I will second a thumbs up for GU gels (better than clif shots), and shot bloks, but I will say the bloks get REALLY sticky on long/warm races.   I like the beans a lot, but for the volume, you don't get as many calories.  They don't get as sticky though because they have the harder shell.  I've always worried about inhaling them and choking, but so far so good!!  I thought Accelerade was really gross, especially when warm, and it made my stomach a little uneasy.  Fortunately for me, I think they went out of business, so I won't have to worry about it being provided at races anymore (they were the sponsor for the Elite Racing series of races for a while).  Since I don't have a ton of non-trainer experience on my bike, I will need to practice drinking and eating some more.  My balance is a little scary when I take one hand off the handlebars and start trying to actually do something like reach for a bottle or open something. 

OK - I know this is going to sound SHOCKING coming from me but dang I had a great day swimming! I have also come to the conclusion I am my own worst enemy. I had a meeting in the am so i went swimming on my lunch hour...AFTER i ate...what a difference! Not only did i do the drills but i was able to swim 13 laps! I know I have a way to go but i feel GREAT!

I have another newbie question. Dont laugh...what is considered a stroke when counting strokes? Each arm going into the water or the same arm? I know you are ALL saying its way too early to worry about counting my strokes...but thats who i am.

Yeah!!  That's exciting!!  Great job!

I don't think it's too early to count strokes, I just don't think it's good to determine if it's good or not totally based on what others are doing with it.  Each arm going into the water is a stroke.  As you get better with your form, the number of strokes will be reduced.  It's a nice way to judge how well you are progressing.

The nutrition I mainly can handle it race day nutrition, and maybe a few days beforehand.  For everyday nutrition, I am not good at all, you are probably a lot better than me. :-)

I don't have very good workouts if I eat before training.  If I haven't eaten in a long time, then I will try to dump in some calories that don't have the bulk, like a Gatorade, Ensure, a Clif Bar, etc.  A gel would work too.  I don't do too many gels in training except to get used to using them, or if it's a really long workout of 13+ miles.  But you do need to train your race-day nutrition so that's part of it.

I have also learned things like don't eat Thai food for lunch the day of a big workout.  That evening's training is not very good at all, for whatever reason.

Yes the more races you do, the less butterflies you will get.

I'll write up my ideas on a HIM later tonight.  You'll also need to practice the bottle exchange for Eagleman.  There will be a "toss-away" area right in front of the bike aid station, where you toss your empty bottle.  There is probably another one after the aid station, just in case you missed it.  You throw your bottle in that area (really fun), and then you have to try to grab a new bottle from the volunteers.  It is usually Gatorade Endurance, and in the bottles that fit your cage.  They will go over this in the race info, but it's good to practice.  Sometimes the volunteers will run with you a little to make it not seem so hard, but I wouldn't count on it.  You could actually stop your bike if you don't feel comfortable.  But once you learn how slow you need to slow down, and to grab it, it's not so bad.  Just get the routine of slow down, throw the old bottle, spot someone, slow more, grab the new one, put it in the cage, and take off.

Columbia has a bike bottle exchange too so you'll get some practice there.

Steve, the 5 mile trail run was canceled.  There's just too much ice on the ground and it won't melt by Sunday in that area.   Bummer!

If you really like trail runs, enough to travel, there is a series of trail races up in Reading, PA that are AWESOME.  I used to try to make it to all of them, but I got burned out with the drive up there.

Pretzel City Sports

The Ugly Mudder (7 miles) is on Feb 22nd, and the highly popular Mudfest 15k (written up in Runner's World) in April.  They are a lot of fun, kind of tough but manageable, and the race director is a hoot.  For one of the races mentioned above (can't remember which), there is a 75 foot hill at the very end, which they actually water down with a hose, so it's just a big slide of mud by the time you get to it.  You actually have to climb up with your hands and knees, grasping the mud with your hands.  I heard stories of folks sliding down 4 times before making it up.  I made it up in one try but I'm sure that is due to me getting there earlier than the middle of the pack. 

When I did the Half Wit Half Marathon there, it took me an hour over my normal half marathon time.  Lots of fun.

The Black Bear HIM is May 31.  I haven't given up on this goal, but I don't feel confident enough to register for it yet.  (I can always do the Black Bear Sprint if I have to.)

Lehigh Valley Half Marathon is May 3.  I should be ready for that in time.  If I register for it now, that will help keep me on target, at least as far as running goes.   Is that date too close to my HIM?  Will I still be recovering from my first half marathon as I enter my first HIM?

4 weeks?  That seems ok to me.  Just don't kill yourself in the half so much that you miss valuable days of training.

A few things about swimming.  Note that if you are swimming in "Swim trunks," you will be much faster in a "jammer."  I just tested this out in the pool this week, and swim trunks seemed to add a good 5-10 seconds per 100 yards.  Jammers sort of look like tri shorts, but without the padding inside - Swim Jammers

Anything you can do to remove drag from your body, will help.  I would swim in my tri shorts in training, but I don't want to wear them thin with all the chlorine.  Jammers are pretty cheap compared to tri shorts.

Also, I think it's worthwhile to watch others at the pool.  I might not be that great at swimming, but I think it's not that hard to spot what someone is doing right and wrong at the pool.  Last night, I saw this one woman who was so smooth in her stroke, it was amazing.  She looked so relaxed.  She was putting so little effort into her swim, that it looked like she must not be going very fast.  The smoothness of the stroke, and no splashing, made me think she was probably fast, so I timed her.  She was doing 45-50 seconds per 50 yards, which I think is pretty fast, especially when you are just taking it easy.  I doubt I look that smooth.  It just gave me an appreciation of just how little effort it should take if we get this swim form down right.

If I am watching someone doing something incorrectly, I think about how maybe I am doing it.  Am I crossing my arms over the middle like he is?  Is my head position as bad as that one?  Do I cut my swim stroke short?

Also, I read a tip once about talking to lifeguards, and getting tips from them.  I think that's a swell idea.  It even mentioned sliding them a $5 or something to have them watch you.  I'm sure money will help, but I've found niceness to work pretty well too.  Just get to know them.  They are pretty bored, so they are looking for human contact.  Then act frustrated one day, and say something like, "Darn, I just can't seem to get my body balance correct.  Do I look as bad as it feels?"  ;-)  I used to even bring my lifeguard dinner every once in a while. 

Lastly, we just got a nice BT email newsletter that has beginner swimmer tips.  In case you missed it, it's here.  I think it's really good.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1657

One more note about swimming.  I was checking into my new shoulder approach, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something that was going to injure my shoulder, so I looked around a bit, and found a BT gear review of a trainer that helps you with your catch.  it's called the Halo Swim Trainer.  The gear review is decently lengthy, as it seems to be partly a sales pitch and partly an instruction guide.  But, if you fast foward through the talk, and get to him actually using it, you can see how the trainer forces your shoulder and arm into the correct position.  Since it's so clear on the video, I thought it was helpful to watch how the shoulder and arm should look through the catch.

These are the kinds of things I spend mucho time viewing when I am ignoring the fact that I told someone I would write up something about HIM nutrition. :-)  Then I get sleepy and doze off.

When talking about drinks I forgot to mention two that I like but I haven't been able to test much of because I think it's too expsensive.  Amino Vital and Infinit.  Both are a lot less sweet tasting than drinks like Gatorade, and they both claim to have ingredients that other drinks don't have.  They serve Amino at the Honolulu Marathon, and I've seemed to do well there.  They served Infinit at the Morgantown HIM, and that worked pretty well too.  Infinit has the added bonus that they will develop a recipe just for you.  So far they've been too pricey for me to play with in training.  I may buy some Amino as it gets more popular and goes on sale in places.

Ok, Eagleman HIM Nutrition.

If you are really stuck on your favorite drink, you are going to have to stash them on your bike.  The website says we have 5 aid stations on the bike, and 12 on the run.  I only see 4 and 10 on the maps, but whatever, there's enough drink on the course to support you otherwise.  It's going to be a hot race even if we have normal weather, so salt tablets or endurolytes are going to be nice.  I have these nice little containers that I can carry them in.  I've heard of people using film canisters.  I've stuffed salt and Tylenol in the same containers before, but I'm come to find it easier now to have them in separate containers, because the last thing you want to do in a race is to fuddle around with pills, and have them fall all over the place (you will see them on the ground from others doing that).  They actually make little pill popper dispensers, which are neat.

Except for the fact that I have been using Perpeteum lately, I would be using all of the aid station gatorades for support.  But since I'm using Perpetuem, I will probably use that as much as I can, and then throw it away before or during the run.  It comes in a powder that you can mix into different consistencies, and I will make a bottle that is supposed to last maybe 4-6 hours.  That's going to be pretty thick stuff, and you are supposed to sip it, and then drink water.

I've also gotten on an Ensure kick, and I like the way it's worked so far.  What a lot of calories in a small bottle!  With Ironman Arizona and Disney, I drank 3 of these things when I woke up in the morning.  I also stashed some Ensure (wrapped with $1 Walmart ice packs) along the course in case I needed it (full IM events have "special needs" areas).  If you are going to use Ensure, make sure you use it in training.  It's quite a different feeling, and you need to pick a flavor that's good for you.

Ok so what will I do for Eagleman?

1. Wake up, drink 2-3 bottles of Ensure.  Carry a Clif Bar and a Gatorade to much on between then and the race start.

2. 15 minutes before the start, take a gel, and drink it down a bit.  Toss the gatorade away and get in the water.

3. When you get in the water, note that most everyone else is peeing in their wetsuit.  You can either get disgusted, or go along and do the same and save yourself a bathroom trip (if you need to go).  If you're really good, you can relax enough during the swim to go while you are swimming.  It's not very fun to stand in bathroom lines during a race. It's not very disgusting to think about peeing in the swim, once you realize that people are people on the bike ride. :-)

4.  Finish swim, grab my salt tablets and maybe 3 bags of Shot Blocks (1 bag per 45 mins I will eat), and get on the bike.  As a first timer, you might want a Gatorade (or drink of choice) in the transition area to drink down fully after that long swim, you are now dehydrated.  Me, I'm going to jump on the bike and start working on emptying a bottle before the first aid station.  I will probably have two bottles on the bike when I jump on.  One with my 4-6 hour Perpetuem in a disposable bottle, the other with a disposable water or gatorade bottle.  I'll drink the latter and hydrate out of the swim while riding.  Don't want to drink too fast though because your body is getting used to this new activity.  I have read that I can aim for 300-500 calories on the bike (depending on your weight), so I shoot for 500 and of course end up lower, so maybe 400.  If I take 1 bag of Shot Blocks every 45 minutes, that is 200 cals.  And a 24 ounce of Gatorade Endurance is 150 (Perpetuem is probably similar, so I would take whatever equivalent).  So I'll slowly do those. I have brought things like Power Bars and Clif Bars on the bike, but probably won't for this race.  Not a bad idea though.  Just 1 or 2 for a change of pace.

5.  Salt tabs.  I take Lava Salts, but there's a few other ones out there, like EnduroLytes .  At SavageMan last year, they were giving them out like candy.  With Endurolytes, they seemed to want you to take 2 at a time.  Lava Salts are up to 2 an hour, and I'll probably go with 1 per hour.  I'm not totally convinced that you *need* these things, but if it's hot, it sure seems helpful.  Make sure to drink enough to get it in your system.  if you don't take salt tabs, then make sure your drinks have high sodium content.

6.  First aid station at mile 10.  Drop the gatorade bottle, pick up a new one.  Even if you aren't done the first one, drop it.  Now you can work on getting more hydration.  In previous races, I've tried to finish off a whole bottle before getting to the next aid station, as they are spaced out pretty well for that.  That may be a bit overly hydrated though.  But it sure beats being dehydrated, which will happen very easily.  If you are thirsty, then you are already dehydrated.

7.  Handle the other aid stations like #6.  An hour before getting off the bike, I'll stop the solid nutrition (shot blocks, sport beans, whatever).  I can't handle the solid stuff once I get on the run.

8.  Get off the bike, head to T2.  In Ironman trademarked events, they frequently will take the bike for you as soon as you get off.  I don't know if they do that for all of them, just don't be as surprised as I was when they took mine at the first Ironman 70.3 I did. :-)  Toss any shot blocks or solid foods I have left, pick up maybe 4 gels, one per 30 mins.  Make sure I don't accidently toss my salt and tylenol dispensers (or have new ones available at T2).  Also pick up a fresh new bottle of Gatorade at my area, and drink that towards the first aid station.  This might be a good spot for an Ensure instead of the Gatorade?  I should experiment with that.  Whatever I have, I am going to throw away at the first aid station and live the rest of the way with drinks off the course.

9.  Take a gel right away, and drink it down.  From there, live from aid station to aid station the rest of the way.  I have read instances of trying to get 300 cals per hour in on the run, as you can't process as made calories as on the bike.  Even more reason to treat the bike ride like a buffet!  You are loading up for that run.  So for the run I am thinking a gel every 3-4 miles, and drinking gatorade endurance at the aid stations, and a salt tab here and there (maybe 2 for the run), but, by this point I am usually left with making adjustments.  Listen to your body.  Would you like some Coke?  It'll be there.  Do you feel al gunked up?  Drink water only for a few aid stations.  A lot of these things resolve themselves.  Don't get too discouraged.  Once I had a HIM where I drank water only for the first 6 or so miles and then my stomach worked itself out.  IMs have worked similarly.  Your body has a way of telling you what you need.  Try to keep taking your gels if you can, but if you can't, suck down the Gatorade and Coke.  Keep getting those calories in.  Grab a banana if gels are not working.  Grab some pretzels if the salt tabs are not desirable.  The oranges that races hand out, are supposed to settle your stomach (I think).  I haven't had that work, but it's worth a try.

10. Work on getting from aid station to aid station.  If you have to walk, then get to the aid station and walk through, then run to the next one.  It's amazing how little time you lose with that idea.

11. At mile 13, get that bib number facing the front, pretty yourself up, take that grimace off your face, and smile for your finisher photo!

I hope I covered everything in this ramble.  The nice thing about Eagleman, is it sure seems like clothing won't be much of a worry.  We probably won't have to worry about things like jackets, arm warmers, etc.  You will be so tired of drinking sweet stuff during this race.  I've had races where my teeth actually hurt for a day or so after the race.  If all the sweetness bothers you, you could try bringing more of your own drink on the bike and run.

I found a couple of nice articles on nutrition.  They are IM nutrition but really not that much different than a HIM.

http://www.tritalk.co.uk/index.php/wiki/Ironman_Nutrition/

Coach Gordo's IM Nutrition tips (the same Coach Gordo on BT)

Let me know if I missed anything.

Thanks.  I've now registered for the Lehigh Valley Half Marathon.
The only thing that can stop me now is an injury, so I will train conservatively.  No more than 10% increase in distance per week.

Actually REGISTERING for a race is an exciting and terrifying experience for a newbie like me.  There's no backing out now! 

What is the latest date (in your opinion) that I should sign up for Black Bear (May 31)?  I want to wait as long as possibe (just in case), but I don't want it to sell out.

I've been looking into Triathlon bikes.  I'm considering getting a used one, but I found a web site - bikesdirect.com.  They claim prices are 50-60% off.  Sounds too good to be true, if you know what I mean.  Maybe these are Chinese knock-offs of name brands?

I have also read some bad reviews of this site, but some good ones as well.  Does anyone have experience with these guys?  They appear to be registered with BBB and have a good rating.  Am I better off buying from eBay?

I like using the MTBR website for bike reviews.  Here's the one for Bikes Direct:

http://bikeshops.mtbr.com/cat/internet-mail-order-retailers/bikeshop/PRD_368394_6337crx.aspx

A serious coach would tell you that bike fit is everything.  The only way you are going to get that is if you go to a shop and get fitted towards a certain bike.  Making it more difficult is that one size of one manufacturer doesn't equate to the same size with a different manufacturer.

They say that the bike could have fantastic components, but if the bike is uncomfortable, you won't be fast.

That said, my current tri bike is one I bought from a friend, and I am pretty sure it's too big for me.  I have tried to modify it to my liking, but it's still not perfect.  But good enough that I haven't bought a new one.  For my road bike, I did get fitted at REI.

When I was scoping out bikes with another friend, he mentioned Motobecane (which this store sells) and I checked into it and I thought I read that they were just last year's Fuji models.  But I am not seeing that stated anywhere today.

The way I see it, you are taking the same risk with EBay or bikesdirect.com.  But with EBay you might be able to get a used name brand and reduce the price risk.  But then, for all you know the bike on EBay has been in an accident as well.

I wouldn't think badly if you did either.  Just a little risky.  I make such choices because I'm cheap. :-)

A friend of mine was wanting to rid himself of his Trek, after Ironman Louisville, so I currently have it.  He was so discouraged with how he felt, he wanted to rid himself of everything.  I haven't decided whether I want to keep it or not.  If I were smart and able to make decisions, I'd decide, and take the other bike to the Poconos this weekend for you to try out.  I haven't really talked price with him yet.