Well you can start with 10 reps of each exercise and work up. I think I started with that and expanded from there.

IRONVIKING - 2009-01-24 4:24 PM

Lara C - 2009-01-24 5:03 AM Afternoon (at least it is for me!)

Went swimming yesterday and my breathing was just horrible. I couldn't get into a good pattern and felt like I was running out of breath after 50 metres. I wasn't going quickly so I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Also, stll don't think I'm bending my elbow correctly so need to keep working on that one too.

Going for a 5 mile plod a bit later. I've had a bit of a sleep in today

Hi Lara,

Ditto on the sleeping in. I'm a bit sluggish this morning too.

I'd like to hear more about your breathing. I sometimes breathe from both sides, ala left right left breathe, right left right breathe. Or, sometimes I'll breathe to the left two strokes in a row, then left right left and breathe two times in a row to the right and repeat. During warmup I breath from both sides. When I start my main set I continue to breathe from both sides until I need more air, then I employ the two to the left and two to the right breathing. If I do some all out effort laps I breathe to the left with every stroke, touch the wall, and breathe to the right with every stroke back. I look at it like I do when I'm running in that a jog or easy run has me breathing in for four strides and out for four. If I pick up the pace I need more air and breathe with  every three, etc. I'm just saying you don't have to get locked in to breathing the same when you're swimming, especially if you need more air.

C - btw, easy rule of thumb I was taught re when to run or not was if the cold/cough was in the chest, don't run but if it's just in your head, you *could* be okay... 

Lara C - 2009-01-25 1:58 AM

IRONVIKING - 2009-01-24 4:24 PM

Lara C - 2009-01-24 5:03 AM Afternoon (at least it is for me!)

Went swimming yesterday and my breathing was just horrible. I couldn't get into a good pattern and felt like I was running out of breath after 50 metres. I wasn't going quickly so I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Also, stll don't think I'm bending my elbow correctly so need to keep working on that one too.

Going for a 5 mile plod a bit later. I've had a bit of a sleep in today

Hi Lara,

Ditto on the sleeping in. I'm a bit sluggish this morning too.

I'd like to hear more about your breathing. I sometimes breathe from both sides, ala left right left breathe, right left right breathe. Or, sometimes I'll breathe to the left two strokes in a row, then left right left and breathe two times in a row to the right and repeat. During warmup I breath from both sides. When I start my main set I continue to breathe from both sides until I need more air, then I employ the two to the left and two to the right breathing. If I do some all out effort laps I breathe to the left with every stroke, touch the wall, and breathe to the right with every stroke back. I look at it like I do when I'm running in that a jog or easy run has me breathing in for four strides and out for four. If I pick up the pace I need more air and breathe with  every three, etc. I'm just saying you don't have to get locked in to breathing the same when you're swimming, especially if you need more air.

I've been doing bilateral breathing since my second week of lessons and that bit is fine. However the issue is the actual act of breathing in and out. I feel like I'm more taking a gasp of air rather than breathing in when I lift my head up. However when I run, I tend to just breathe through my mouth too as I've always struggled with breathing in through my nose.

C - btw, easy rule of thumb I was taught re when to run or not was if the cold/cough was in the chest, don't run but if it's just in your head, you *could* be okay... 

I've felt the same way when swimming, that my breathing was more of a gasp then a full breath. Do you find that you breathe that way from the start or more like after a few laps? Obviously, when we're swimming we don't have the luxury of breathing whenever we want unless of course our head's out of the water and I'm certain you're not swimming that way. I'm sure you would have mentioned asthma or some other respiratory problem so I'm also ruling that out. When you breathe are you turning your head to the side or are you rolling slightly and allowing your head to move with your shoulder rotation? I've been working on more body rotation when I swim and on not just turning my head to breathe. If I'm swimming laps it's a little different then when I'm doing say, 50's all out. During laps I focus on form and body rotation including trying to let my head roll with my shoulders and this allows a fraction more time to take a deeper breath.   During sprints I do tend to turn my head more and gasp because of the exertion, but when I finish the lap I know I'll pause for 15-30 seconds before the next one. If I do several of these I know by the end I'll be at the wall heaving of breathe and will wait for one minute or more to let my breathing return to normal before continuing with my workout. Does this help?

I've also heard that about chest cold/head cold. It does make sense.

Good call. Better to be rested since you're not under pressure to meet a race deadline.

I have a question about biking to running ratio. I am waiting on my copy of "The Triathlete's Training Bible" to come in and that will help me nail down my training for this year, but I have been  looking at running miles and biking miles and see that I am biking about twice the miles I run each month.  In a sprint the ratio is about 6 to 1 in terms of miles, but about 2.5 or 3 to 1 in terms of minutes. Generally I have been running 3 days, biking 2 days, strength training 1 day and resting one day. I am taking it easy right now, but was focusing on the run. I guess I should bike 3 and run 2?  In March I will be swimming 1 day also.  Thanks!

Lara C - 2009-01-25 1:58 AM

IRONVIKING - 2009-01-24 4:24 PM

Lara C - 2009-01-24 5:03 AM Afternoon (at least it is for me!)

Went swimming yesterday and my breathing was just horrible. I couldn't get into a good pattern and felt like I was running out of breath after 50 metres. I wasn't going quickly so I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Also, stll don't think I'm bending my elbow correctly so need to keep working on that one too.

Going for a 5 mile plod a bit later. I've had a bit of a sleep in today

Hi Lara,

Ditto on the sleeping in. I'm a bit sluggish this morning too.

I'd like to hear more about your breathing. I sometimes breathe from both sides, ala left right left breathe, right left right breathe. Or, sometimes I'll breathe to the left two strokes in a row, then left right left and breathe two times in a row to the right and repeat. During warmup I breath from both sides. When I start my main set I continue to breathe from both sides until I need more air, then I employ the two to the left and two to the right breathing. If I do some all out effort laps I breathe to the left with every stroke, touch the wall, and breathe to the right with every stroke back. I look at it like I do when I'm running in that a jog or easy run has me breathing in for four strides and out for four. If I pick up the pace I need more air and breathe with  every three, etc. I'm just saying you don't have to get locked in to breathing the same when you're swimming, especially if you need more air.

I've been doing bilateral breathing since my second week of lessons and that bit is fine. However the issue is the actual act of breathing in and out. I feel like I'm more taking a gasp of air rather than breathing in when I lift my head up. However when I run, I tend to just breathe through my mouth too as I've always struggled with breathing in through my nose.

C - btw, easy rule of thumb I was taught re when to run or not was if the cold/cough was in the chest, don't run but if it's just in your head, you *could* be okay... 

Lara...

I tend to get 'gaspy' in the pool when I'm not breathing out well.  Either I hold my breath and I have to give the quick exhale and quick gasp when my head comes up, or I breath out too quickly and I'm out of breath by the time my head comes up so I'm gasping for air.  I find that it takes a consistent blowing out while my face is in the water and then when the head pops up I breathe in easily.  Of course, all that takes getting my timing down depending on how much I'm breathing, ie. every third, every fourth, every fifth , or most often every one stroke.

 Just keep practicing!

Jeff- thanks for the info..I realize that it is all based on personal preference but I need a place to start....I appreciate your feedback.

On the cramping thing, it was the only time it happened but definitely left an impression.  4 miles from home and not able to walk.  Stumbled to a 7-11, got a gatorade and walked the crap off.  Can't imagine how people can compete thru the pain...

butterfly1723 - 2009-01-27 9:55 PM Hi guys. I've been down for the count since Friday. Upper Respiratory Infection. Went to an internist just for a diagnosis b/c it's been going on and off for 2 months and he said it was allergies. NOT HAPPY WITH THE DOCTOR. Coughing my head off since Friday. There's no f'ing way I just have allergies. I live in Chicago and it's freaking freezing here. So besides my b'ching...... What the hell else can I do - less cardio - to keep up the pace? I need improvement in both bike and run - that's what I really WANT to do right now but it ain't happening until the violent phlegm subsides. Thoughts, PLEASE? I was doing so well with the ramp up and I am really disappointed. Thanks.

Well.. let me preface with.... I'm no Doctor so take any advice with a grain of salt.  What I would do/think in this case:  If it has been going on for two months, most likely  not a virus.  It could be a bacterial infection, but don't just go and start demanding antibiotics because they aren't good for you if you don't need them.  I'd wanna talk to my Dr and tell him/her that I wasn't happy with the diagnosis, that it doesn't make since to me and I'd like to talk it out, understand it better and maybe get some more tests done.  If the doc won't listen, I'd get a new doc.  

So, if the doc does listen, or if I'm talking to a new doc: there are simple blood tests that will rule out or verify bacterial infections.  Is your white blood cell count sky rocketing???  A chest x-ray will show if you have severe bronchitis or pneumonia.  Did they do one?  Okay, maybe it is just allergies, great answer, now what can I do about them, doc?? 

Also, if I was gonna self-medicate, I'd try an expectorant with Guaifenasin in it... help get that phlegm out of there.

Finally, as much as I know I need to train.. i'd listen to what my body is telling me and lay off if I'm just getting worse by training.  I'm normally a 'just train through it' type of person, but that isn't always the best advice.

Anyway, my 2cents about how I'd handle it... but, like I said, I'm not a doctor and you should really seek out a doctor you can trust.

I'd been doing bilateral breathing so breathing out at about a rate of a third of each stroke if that makes sense. However the other day in the pool I let my mouth be open a bit more. I was surprised how little water I swalled. Now that probably isn't a good idea, esp in an OW but it did make things easier. My breathing out was more consistent too...

I've also decided to drop the half marathon I was doing from my schedule at the end of March. This means I can focus on building up speed in my running, keeping the distances fairly short (4 - 8 miles by end of May) and probably go with a plan like this per week:

Swim - 3 times a week
Run - 2 times a week one week (one run is intervals/ tempo the other a LSR), 3 times the next
Cycle - 2 times a week one week (one cycle is intervals/ tempo the other a LSC), 3 times the next
Strength - 1 to 2 times per week depending on how the body is feeling
Core - 1 to 2 times per week depending on how the body is feeling

My right sholder is a bit achey. I'm not sure if I overdid the weights the other day or if it's from my swimming style so keeping an eye on that...

dcossey - 2009-01-27 11:15 PM

butterfly1723 - 2009-01-27 9:55 PM Hi guys. I've been down for the count since Friday. Upper Respiratory Infection. Went to an internist just for a diagnosis b/c it's been going on and off for 2 months and he said it was allergies. NOT HAPPY WITH THE DOCTOR. Coughing my head off since Friday. There's no f'ing way I just have allergies. I live in Chicago and it's freaking freezing here. So besides my b'ching...... What the hell else can I do - less cardio - to keep up the pace? I need improvement in both bike and run - that's what I really WANT to do right now but it ain't happening until the violent phlegm subsides. Thoughts, PLEASE? I was doing so well with the ramp up and I am really disappointed. Thanks.

Well.. let me preface with.... I'm no Doctor so take any advice with a grain of salt.  What I would do/think in this case:  If it has been going on for two months, most likely  not a virus.  It could be a bacterial infection, but don't just go and start demanding antibiotics because they aren't good for you if you don't need them.  I'd wanna talk to my Dr and tell him/her that I wasn't happy with the diagnosis, that it doesn't make since to me and I'd like to talk it out, understand it better and maybe get some more tests done.  If the doc won't listen, I'd get a new doc.  

So, if the doc does listen, or if I'm talking to a new doc: there are simple blood tests that will rule out or verify bacterial infections.  Is your white blood cell count sky rocketing???  A chest x-ray will show if you have severe bronchitis or pneumonia.  Did they do one?  Okay, maybe it is just allergies, great answer, now what can I do about them, doc?? 

Also, if I was gonna self-medicate, I'd try an expectorant with Guaifenasin in it... help get that phlegm out of there.

Finally, as much as I know I need to train.. i'd listen to what my body is telling me and lay off if I'm just getting worse by training.  I'm normally a 'just train through it' type of person, but that isn't always the best advice.

Anyway, my 2cents about how I'd handle it... but, like I said, I'm not a doctor and you should really seek out a doctor you can trust.

 

Yeah, what he said. I can understand your disappointment from a training point of view, because you've built up a base and now are maybe losing it. It's better to lose a battle and win the war-meaning, if there are things you can do that don't aggravate or send you into a coughing fit it's probably okay to do it. If that means slower paced rides or walking on a treadmill until you get things figured out then at least it's something. But I do think you should get a second opinion. You didn't mention a fever, which is a good thing, so chances are it's not pneumonia, but it's worth getting checked out again.

Hi Lara, I've been wondering about you. The water swallowing you mentioned probably isn't a good thing, though sometimes it happens to me too. I like your plan and I assume you'll be alternating your bike/run so that you'll be riding three times and running two, then riding two times and running three? That makes sense from a building standpoint and should allow you to train/build with less body stress and injury risk. The strength/core is good too, and I think both are important. Personally, I incorporate both into one session three times a week but as long as a person does both weekly it's good.

What's the deal with your shoulder? What kind of movement bothers it? I had a shoulder issue recently that bothered me swimming and had therapy for it. Now it's fine. Let me know what hurts.

Hi Jeff,

I tried that ab workout...it was tough, I only ended up with 20 reps of each one 2X.  My question is about the side crunches.  I am not quite sure I am doing them right.  Can you explain, best you can, the proper form?

Thanks

Brian

Good job on the abs routine. It is a killer.

On the oblique crunch, you lay on your side with your down arm folded so your hand is behind your head. Your top arm can either be along your side or you can put it on your hip. I do it that way so I can feel the oblique contract. So that's the start position, and you don't jerk or pull up you just curl up sideways so that your upper body comes as far off the floor as possible. What's neat is after you do them a few times and you get stronger, you get amazed at crunching up sideways higher and higher.

I'm glad you got that worked out. I bet you make great strides now!

Jeff,

I met with a sports nutritionist today and am very excited about working with her. She is a marathoner and triathlete herself. She gave me some goals for the next two weeks and I gave her my annual training plan (for now, it is a work in progress). We will have a phone meeting in two weeks and she will give me more detailed info based on my training. 

Stacy 

Hi Stacy. That sounds great. I have a nutritionist too. She came free with the open heart surgery lol. It helps to have someone in the sport guiding you. Good job!

Hi lurker. I've seen some of the TI video and know what you mean about balance. I hope all the water's drained out of your head lol. Honestly, I haven't tried the balance drill you described and think I will this weekend just to see . . . The video makes it look so easy and I've tried to copy some of the techniques but don't know that I've got it down. Whenever there's someone swimming faster then me I watch their form underwater and they usually have good rotation. I'm sure there's more to it then I'm trying to do. If TI works for you I'd like to know, I think it would help me too.

Hi everyone,

I think I'm also going to try that balance drill sound interesting, currently I do the side kick drill with the up arm at my side and the bottom arm extended.  The trick is not to scull with the extended arm.

What I really wanted to ask is if anyone has any good swim work outs  that aren't the usual 4 x whatevers....?

Thanks Dirk

I took the TI class after trying to do it solely with the videos.  I thought it was totally worth it.  The main reason is because when they guided me to do the proper technique in the pool, I would have never believed that swimming the way they teach would work.  I didnt feel like I was working hard enough....which of course was the basis for my swimming problems in the first place.  Sounds  familiar?  I mean how can you get anywhere with a 3-count flutter kick and NO pulling on your return arm stroke....never thought it would work.  Funny thing is many begineers end up going backwards when they start.

The best story from my class was a 50+ year old guy who swims competitive sprints.  HE was very very resistant to doing anything other than max power quick turnover swimming.  The instructor convinced him (almost threatened him) to try the TI method.  By the weekend close he was faster down the pool with less strokes.  At least he was man enough to admit it.

Dirk, there are no good swim workouts. Just kidding, but I hate them myself. I gave this link to one of the group and mayne it'll work for you. It's from Dave Scott.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUULNJEdKU8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYt8x_7uL48&feature=related