Newbz' group is FULL (Page 6)

Busy holidays here, so haven't been able to check in much.

My 2009 totals were
Bike - 134 hrs
Run - 59 hrs
Swim - 151 hrs

Lots of swimming due to a hip sfx.  Hope to get significantly more running in for 2010.

David,

Thanks for that running post! Definitely helped.

I've never swam competitively, maybe at some point as a kid, but not recently. It's more of a relaxing form of exercise and one I really enjoy doing. That may be my problem since I've always swam to get moving and to relieve some stress through "working out". I do notice that if I do harder sets, instead of just swimming the same pace the whole time, I come out pooped instead of refreshed. I'll try to do more of that then. In fact, my training calls for that, so I should be getting more of the tired feeling now that I'm following that.

-Kasia

ah ok makes a bit more sense now.

thats how a lot of people get into swimming, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

If your goals are to just through it that will do, if you want to get faster, faster swimming is the way to go.

Most people dont swim nearly enough to gain anything from just straight swimming (not that you need to cut that out, just good to know what you are getting out of certain workouts is always good.)

Hey Guys,

I won't insult anyone by saying how busy I've been and why I haven't had any time to post, because I know how busy you all have been this holiday season, and it would just be an excuse for me being lazy. I hope you all had a great Christmas, for those who celebrate, and that we all got some cool new Tri-Gear gifts in our stockings...I know I did. lol. My favorite has been the 5 Disk Triathlon Training Videos and a pair of swimming fins!!!

With that being said, my new 2010 new year's resolution is to check this blog at least every other day to post. After reading through most of the blogs that I've missed here recently, I just want to say how impressed I am with your 5K time David. One of my major goals this year, for nothing more than PR and confidence, is to post a sub 20 min 5K time and it is great to hear that you did it with aerobic training only. I have been reading up on the best way to accomplish this and I am glad you posted your experience on here, and how you did it, because that is a big debate going on in my head right now, on whether or not to do "speed work" in order to get faster in all 3 sports. So, you moved from a 24 min to a 17 min by increasing mileage??? AWESOME!!! and really you settled the debate for me, so thanks....i intend to try to stick to a strictly BASE BUILD only for the first 14 weeks of the 2010 season, mainly because I am SO new to endurance sports that I really do not have much of a base and I think 14 weeks is enough time to allow enough of a base to be built in order for some of the later speedwork to have any real effects. So, I am glad to know someone who improved their 5K (sprint distance) run without ever really going anearobic to get there.

A really important question for me right now is...what are your thoughts on HR??? do you train with a HR monitor? Who's ideas do you subscribe to, Friel's or Maffetone's or niether? Do you think it is possible to achieve results without ever going anearobic all season? I know myself pretty well, and I don't know if I could stay aerobic all year, without doing ANY sprints, intervals, or other High Intensity workouts, once in a while...but I am actually curious as to the whole group here...namely WHAT HEART RATE TRAINING DOES EVERYONE HERE SUBSCRIBE TO???

So, my 2009 log isn't much to speak of...I did my first triathlon in October 2009, then completed 2 more before the season ended. I have absolutely NO background in any of the 3 triathlon disciplines (and yet I LOVE it still!). The only thing I have some experience in, is running, and that is only because I am in the Army and we run most morning's for Physical Training. I competed in my first competitive running race in April of 2008 when I got to Iraq. They had a 5K race every month ,so I did most of them when I could, and threw in my longest ever race, the Air Force 1/2 marathon. Didn't really train for any of  them, so I am looking forward to seeing where I can go with a little bit of planned training.

Speaking of which, I am recovering from rotator cuff surgery that I had on December 16th, so I have not worked out AT ALL lately, and it is killing me, but what I have been doing, is researching and PLANNING, PLANNING, PLANNING my 2010 training season, which is pretty awesome to do (again I am a total Newbie at all of this, and I am experiencing everything for the first time).  But here are some of my goals for 2010:

(1) Run a sub 20 min. 5K:  My previous best was a 20:45 and my best in a triathlon is 21:36, so I really want to take my 5K time down a little even though my focus for this year and beyond is going to be 1/2 Iron's and hopefully full Iron's next year of the year after.  I also would like to improve on my 1:45 half-marathon I did last year...maybe down to a 7 min/mile pace (1:33).

(2) Build endurance in the pool: I grew up on Long Island, NY and so I am a strong open water swimmer, but not a very good long-distance swimmer. My A-race this year is going to be Ironman 70.3 Syracuse in September and so I really want to be able to start the race strong in the water. I also have a big problem with my kick, which is almost non-existent, and therefore sinking my lower-half of my body while I am swimming. So...I would like to learn how to streamline a little better. Any ideas on kick drills that work???

(3) Increase my race-pace Bike speed: What is a competitive age-grouper avg bike speed??? The one triathlon that I did last season, that actually computed Bike speeds, said that mine was 15.5 m.p.h. and I realized quickly that that sucks! In all three triathlons last seasaon I was competitive in my age group (top 10) in the swim and the run, but finished near the bottom on the bike in all three races I did. So...I want to improve my avg race-pace. I bought a garmin 305 w/ speed and cadence sensor and I am hoping to be able to increase my speed to somewhere around 18 m.p.h.  Is that reasonable to do in only 1 season???

Lastly, my main goal is to have as much fun as I can and remain injury free this season. This rotator cuff surgery is the first "real" injury that I've ever had, and I am not trying to get hurt any more. I think one of the biggest things I've learned in all of my research has been to increase my distance that I train INCREMENTALLY. The 10% rule seems to be pretty sound advice and right now I am aiming for a Febuary 1st date to resume/begin my 2010 training using the following programs off of www.trinewbies.com

Feb 1 - May 9 = BASE TRAINING = 10 Week beginner Olympic Distance Program + Weeks' 8-11 of the Intermediate Olympic Distance Program (my big race here is going to be Gateway to the Bay in Houston, TX on April 3rd)

May 10 - May 16 = Mid-Season Recovery + Transition to Half-Ironman Distance Training

May 17 - September 12 = BASE TRAINING + TEMPO/SPEED WORK (in weeks 13 through 17) = 18 Week Intermediate Half-Ironman Distance Program (2 big races I am looking forward to here - Capital of Texas Tri in Austin, TX and the NYC Nautica Triathlon)

September 19, 2010 = IRONMAN 70.3 SYRACUSE (my A-Race this year)

October 3, 2010 = MIGHTY MAN MONTAUK (HIM Distance)


So, that's it...I hope everyone has a great New Years and I'll see you next year.

I think you are on the right track with thw training. The part about speedwork that most people miss is on its own its not going to do a lot for you. it will help up the amount of time you can hold a faster pace, and will give you a bit more kick. but the main speed comes from the hours of running you do, not the 30 min at the track. This is not to say it doesn't have a place, but in the amount a lot of people run it needs to be in moderation. If you are running 25 miles a week, one tempo session and strides at the end of another run are plently of harder running.

I think a sub 20 is going to be a good goal for you once you get back to training if you ran a 21:36 this year.

Personally i dont use HR, but i know a lot of people that do and love it, and a few of the athletes i coach also do. If you have specific questions about it let me know, i do know a decent amount but just dont think it is for me.

Kicking in the pool, the first thing i would do is start working on ankle flexability right now. the further you can point your toes down the better this will be for you. Next, head over to youtube and search for some longer swimming events 100 is ok, 200 and up is best. try and find some underwater video (olympics from athens is a or bejing would be a good place to start). watch the legs on the swimmers, the kick comes from the hip and makes the leg look more like a whip versus them bending at the knee. I have a list of drills along with the how too and what they correct on here somewhere, let me dig it up.

Bike speed, this is my area of fun and by far what i am best at. Let me know anything you want here and i'll see what i can do. Yes its completely reasonable to make it up and probably over 18mph this year.

Awesome David and thanks for the quick response. I look forward to your list of swimming drills and what they all correct to start building my swim training regime. You have some time to dig it up though, because of my shoulder injury, I probably won't be able to get into the pool for at least another month...but i am considering going into the pool to strictly work on my kick with a kick board...as soon as I can extend my arm above my.

As far as increasing bike speed then, what are your recommendations to begin with, in order to begin the process of bringing my speed from 15 mph to over 18. As I posted before, from Feb 1 through May whatever, I am going to stick with a strict base building program, which, assuming cycling is similar to running in this aspect, should improve my times/speed just by increasing mileage (without speedwork), or...should I add a few short speed bursts, or work in some tempo intervals during my mid-week rides during the base program as well. My level of bike fitness is...well...it sucks to be honest, so...

Thanks again!

Before i jump into this, two things that will help a lot of the bike.

do you live somewhere warm enough to train outside, or have a bike trainer?
2nd, how much do you k
now/understand about hte various trianing zones/levels?
for the sake of keeping this easy, i'm sticking with the power levels that coggan uses in all of his power meter articles/book (also one of the most wildly used training zones out there).
Zones 1-5, or by name, reovery, steady/endurance, tempo, threshold, Vo2 or 20 min power (people go back and forth on this one).

zn1 is EASY. think race cool down, ride after a rough day of training, etc. if you are training under 10-14 hours a week you will prob never see this aside from warmups and cool downs.

zn2: this is a moderate paced steady speed. this is where most of your runs/easy parts of rides are done. this is all day cruise pace on the bike, oonversational pace.

zn3: tempo pace. this is a great speed in that you can get in some esrious work without hte huge recovery cost of faster work. this is roughly 80-88% of threshold pace, and approx half IM bike pace. this pace on its own should not really hurt, but rather the length of time you spend here will be what works. it should feel like comfortably working. should be able to talk a little bit.


zn4: FTP (functional threshold power), this is the power you can hold all out for 1 hour. This is a very very useful number and is the number one factor in how fast you can go for most distances up through HIM and to a lesser extent logner races, this level does not hurt right away but builds up through the intervals. intervals will have less rest and be longer than zn5

zn5: Vo2 or 20 min power (these two get tossed around a bit), 20 min power is like FTP, but for 20 min. Vo2 max would be a bit shorter. this hurts, its short, fast, and normally has longer recovery between intervals

Ok, with all that said. if you live somewhere cold, my advice for the winter focus would be on building FTP and 20 min power over the winter, and lengthen out as the season/warmer weather gets closer. The trainer lends itself well to this, and you can get a lot done in a few short, focused workouts that will translate well into riding later. The one drawback to this is in order for this to work well, you need to do the hard parts HARD.

some sample/ideas for threshold workouts would look like this:
starting of with workouts that include something like 8x2 or 4 min on 2 min rest
slowly over time increase these to 6x5 min, 4x8, 3x10, 2x20. rest stays short, 1-3 min or so. the goal with these is to spend a solid amount of time in zn4, but not so much you kill yourself and dont recover. as the winter goes on you shift into fewer intervals, but longer at a time. that plus a warmup and cool down is enough for a trainer workout. and the numbers can change around a bit/not always needing to follow that exact number setup, you can do it as a ladder, or something like that as well. another way to do it is a LOT of intervals with very short rest, something like 12-15x2:40 on, 20 sec easy.

sample 20min power workouts.
these are a bit diff. the effort level is much higher, and will start hurting a lot quicker. the rest however is much longer than with the zn4 work, and intervals much shorter.
start off with something like 5x spin up (start easy and slowly increase your cadence untill you cant spin any faster, then slow back down). should take a min or so each, keep 1-2 min easy after each. this gets your legs warmed up and ready to go, and helps to teach them to spin well.
intervals for these will look like this:
start in the 10x1 min range, 1 min rest. as time goes on you'll add to the number of intervals, and the time only a little. so a bit down the road could look like 14x1 or 1:30, 12x2 min, 10-15x2:30 etc. rest should be equal or 1.5x as long as intervals here, but they should all be done HARD, whereas the zn4 work is going to requre a bit more pacing to get through.

if you can get two zn4 workouts in, and one zn5, those three will go a long way over the winter, maybe one more easy crusing ride if you have the time, and then work on lengthening it out once spring rolls around and i promise you will be moving much faster than last year by the seasons start.

Wow, David, that is some really sage advice...and all without using a heart-monitor, huh? I do actually understand the training zones you discussed pretty well (in theory) b/c I have been reading so much about them and I have actually ran some treadmill tests/computrainer tests to figure out my approximate Lactate threshold (or a close proximity), which is not an exact science, but it should be pretty close. SO...I will definitely be able to make the adjustments based on your suggestions here, which are awesome. And to answer your question, I live in TX, so I do have the opportunity to ride outside about 2x a week, and I plan to add an indoor ride for my third ride of each week coming shortly. SO, to recap and feedback your advice, my bike portion of my training-week should look something like this:

Tue - INDOOR training - VO2 Max Training (Zone 5)

Thu - Outdoor Ride - Threshold work (Zone 4) - eventually moving toward less intervals, but longer "on" riding portion of the intervals (e.g. 2 x 20 min on)

Sunday - Long Slow Distance Ride - Zone 2 -3 ride; increasing mileage 10% per week


Do you think that there is enough recovery in between threshold/anearobic workouts during the week? And, should I have more Aerobic/Base work earlier on (for example, making my Thursday ride more aerobic, then threshold?)

Thanks again David,
Chris
 

I am loving seeing the Trainer workouts you listed David.  That is about all I am going to be able to do for the next couple of months.  So far I have been sitting on the bike for the required time as described by by 20 week balanced  Oly plan and it SUCKS!  I hate sitting on there for so long. 

I will be beginning these type of cycling work outs the week after next.  With the work outs I have done this week I am shifting my recovery week to next week.

This week has had some killer work outs in the pool.  Some because of the harshness of them and some because they have been back to back to back.  But that has been the best way for me to get some extra time in.  No matter what I wouldn't complain because I have been able to spend some time with my daughter in the water and talk swim and have some fun messin with each other in the pool.

chris what race distances are you doing mainly? if you are not going over olympic, i would say slowly build the logner ride up to 2:30-3hr tops. if you are riding 3 days a week riding over that range is going to be a waste of time. once you get to that point work on slowly upping the overall pace for the longer ride. if you can more than that later on, let me know and we can talk about it.


Dirk,
working like this with the bike stuff over the winter is going against a lot of the traditional thinking, but its been proven to work well and is a much better use of time for people with a life outside of training, and works really really well for shorter races too.

i coached a highschool rowing team last year, and notre dame's mens team this year, and both used to use the same format of long slow then getting faster as the season went on. both the highschool and univeristy of ND were so so teams, doing well but not winning.

I tried (for the first time in my coaching) a format like this building the faster stuff and working distances up as time went on. the highschool girls i had (the freshman team) went from a 4-4 record to 9-0. and we also entered them twice in varsity races and beat 26 of 31 boats.

same thing with ND, went from the number 24 ranked team to number 2 with the same training. As far as tri training is going more and more coaches are making this move as well.

I swam for the first time last night in like 10 years (my race is in September and it's for newbies). My feet were cramping on the first lap, and by lap two I was winded.  My training called for swimming for 12 minutes (probably to most of you, that is nothing!)  But I pushed through and made it.  Yikes....swimming is HARD.

I also did the stationary bike at the gym for 24 minutes (the time on my training schedule) but it seemed super easy, even at a decent speed with resistance.  It was one of the new-style bikes that are low.  My husband says these won't help me with training because they work different muscle groups -- any ideas?

if the bike is a recumbent (sitting back, like an easy chair), try and find a more upright one, it will do a lot more for you bacause you are supporting yourself vs the bike/chair doing it).

if the biking is really easy add a bit of time to it. if it says 25min and thats really easy add a bit and do 35 or 45 and see how you feel.

and dont worry, i jsut started swimming again this week after being out of the pool for the better part of two months. 10-15 min total is killing me but getting better fast

chris,

i would be careful with the shoulder to start with nd error on the side of too litte swiming rightn ow vs too much. we know you CAN swim and get through it, and you have a while before race day. keeping the shoulder in once piece right now needs to tbe the priority if you want to make it to the races.

trust me i know how that goes, i now have issues with both of them!!

I agree David and I am not going to swim at all until I get clearance from the Physical therapist.  I begin my PT program with them on this coming Tuesday, and I am going to be voicing my desire to get back into the pool, so...I will let them kind-of guide me on when it will be safe to get back to swimming.

As for the other two events, I am having a lot of fun getting back into biking and running. I just posted my first two workouts back on the trail from yesterday and today on the training log (great tool btw!) and it feels good to be back. Another bummer about the shoulder is that I can't incorporate weight training so much into my base training yet, so, once I heal up proper, I look forward to hitting the weights again as well. I really want to move away from a traditional bodybuilding/weight training program (which I've done, inconsistently, for my whole life) to the CORE aspects of weight training. So, I am looking forward to making the switch there too.

And, to answer your question from a previous post about my race length...I am planning to do Half-Ironman's this year and the next, and then make the switch to full-Ironman's after that. That is not to say that I will not ever do Olympics as training events throughout the season, just like I am doing this year, but, no, my main GOALS, as a Triathlete, will be focused on the 1/2 Ironman and later, the FULL Ironman events.

-Chris

David - I really enjoyed the overview of the power zones for cycling. I am trying to 'train smarter' this year regarding my cycling. I have also increased my running mileage this holiday season and I do belive in the run more method. For the past couple of years the majority of my running and cycling has been at lower intensity levels and not adding the speed work until later in the season.

I do have a question - are the training aspects of running and cycling that different? Is time in the saddle not the same as to time on your feet? Why the structured cycling program and the 'more miles' running program?

haha that was actually directed at the other chris (chrisrunz) this time.
It sounds like you are both on your way to getting back into it though.
non-ohio chris, its good to finally get back into it, being stuck out is never fun.

ohio chris, are you following a certain plan right now or just working back into it?



AS for the cycling vs run training:
IN theory its very similar, more miles will make you faster. but the cycling is sort of a middle ground between swimming and running in that you can get away with a lot more hard work than running, but a lot less than swimming.

Once i get outside my bike workouts do not look quite that focused/to the numbers. i'll use landmarks, intersections, whatever for my markers. i'll go out with the workout in mind, but i dont normally time the intervals outside, etc. As an example, where my parents live and where i trained a lot of summers, its all rural open farmland. roads intersect every 1 mile or so on the shorter directions nad every 2-4 on the longer ones. Depending on the type of interval for the day i would use the roads in one direction or another to set pretty close intervals. When i was at school hills provided the shorter ones.
The numbers on the trainer just give you something to think about, and get you working in the right direction. you could do it without ever useing them as long as you have an iea what you are working towards.

That sounds like fun - farklets for cycling.

thats pretty much exactly what it is.

i get in the type of workout i need, but one interval might be 5 min, the next 5:32, the next 4;43, etc. frankly i dont think that matters a huge amount.


Chris, yes i think i did take a look at it! I dont think you can really ever have too much training leading into TTT. are you thinking about racing the NC one? i think i am doing that one with christiana and we're going to shoot for an overall team placing.

Ohio is on the list assumuing i dont have to work that weekend.

Thanks for talking about long runs!  I'm planning 20 miles per week for now with a 6, 4, 10 routine.  Wish I could run more than three days a week, but with everything else, that doesn't seem feasible right now.

As for that 56 mile bike ride, yes.. that was the first time at that distance up from doing 40 to 45 a few times previously.  I had a gu after about 1 1/2 hours and I ate a Lara Bar shortly after that.  Also had water laced with nuun, followed by plain water.  I have pretty good aerobic endurance, I just don't have the muscle strength/power.  I do strength training as often as I can fit it in, but lately have not been consistent.  Also, I've only had a road bike for 3 months, and used a hybrid for 2 months prior, so I'm quite new at this.  My normal long bike route is quite hilly, so I just need to keep tackling those hills to build my strength.

Your explaination of zones is very helpful too.  I've not gotten into zone training yet but know I need to.

My 2009 totals:

Swim - 68,698.4 (since mid-July)
Bike - 650.27 (since mid-July)
Run - 518.11 (since March)



Edited by maria40nc 2009-12-31 4:36 PM

the group made it all the way to page two!!

Hey guys,

Happy New Year! I hope you all have a great 2010 Season and that you all achieve all of your goals this year.

I have a question for the group - I am in the market for a new wetsuit for me and my wife for this coming season. We have never swam, or used, a wetsuit before in a race, so I am just wondering if there are any GLARING obvious things that I need to know, aside from getting a good fit, before I go out shopping for one.  I.E. such as things like, which ones will be easier to take off going into T1 to Bike during a race, do they make special collars and cuffs (rubber, gel, etc???) that make it easier to take off in the heat of "battle"? I am probably going to be spending around 150.00 per suit, so any suggestions based on good experiences, bad experiences?

Thanks Ya'll
Chris (non-Ohio