Steve-'s Distance Endurance Group - CLOSED (Page 6)

Nice job guys!

Early morning runs are GREAT!  I love them!  It reminds me of when I was in the military except we would run in formation yelling cadences at the top of our lungs...but besides that it's just like that. 

Steve & Scott - I have been thiking about this a bit lately and wondered what your thoughts are.  I am targeting two HIM's in 2010 as my A races.  I am planning to ride my bike three times a week breaking down as follows: 2 midweek rides at 60-90 minutes at race pace type effort (2 20 minute intervals at Oly race pace for example) basically hard rides possibly throwing in LT type efforts (4x6 minute for example)as well on some rides to mix things up.  1 weekend long ride at 2-3.5 hours in duration depending on where I am at in the plan with effort just below race pace Z2/Z3 and adding in shorter race pace efforts during the ride.

I really think I did not ride hard enough in my midweek rides last year and want to make sure I get the most out of rides becuase I do have limited time (i.e. do not want junk miles).  Does this seem reasonable? 

Ryan

Edited by rymac 2009-12-30 8:38 AM

I just can't picture you in the military Steve.

Hope everyone is doing well today.

I am having a fairly productive week as far as training goes. Feeling good about that. I am fairly certain the off season made me a bit soft, but I am super excited to get back to training hard.

Had a great swim today. Trying to ingrain DPS in my brain. I got down to 16 strokes at one point. I know I just need to keep pounding the 50s working on making swimming long part of my muscle memory.

depending on where in your race season you are, you'll need to incorporate longer time in lower intensity in order to effectuate increased mitochondrial fatigue resistance (i.e. endurance build) otherwise you won't be able to hold your "race pace" efforts as easily and your run will suffer.

additionally, 4-6min of LT efforts are not long enough.  it has been shown that the minimum duration to have any physiological benefit for LT adaptation is 10min.  also, your OLY efforts should be almost the same as LT efforts as the definition of LT is what you could ride as hard as possible for 1 hour (typically power at LT equates to FTP).

if your goal is half IM races, you want to have a SOLID base with approx 8wk build period of higher and more and more specific race day simulated workouts.  i.e. the closer you get to your race the longer you want to spend at LT during your long rides.

while you can "pull up" your FTP during the weeks of your build period by incorporating "V02" energy system workouts it's just as important to provide your body the opportunity to increase adaptation at LT by spending 30min, 1hr, 1.5hrs, 2hrs at LT during your long rides as the race draws near.

it's important to note that during your base trng (before the 8wks of build prior to your A priority HIM race) you do very little (if any) v02 energy system work but rather spend lots of time doing intervals at approx 85-98% of LT during your weekday workouts and lots of time in z2 during your endurance rides on the weekend; which, by the way should be consistently at 3 hours each week...2 hrs should really only be done at the very very beginning of your base period or during your fall back weeks.  you should be knocking out 3hrs rides in your sleep shortly after you enter your base period (after the off season endds).

maybe I can find my photo from Jump School at Ft. Benning somewhere.  (or maybe not, ha ha ha)

i try me best to not let my "fangs" hang out with civilians because civilians that have not been in the military just don't respond well to that. 

I've found it most effective to exist in civilian life being...well...more civil.  i've had to work hard to change and think i have gotten the hang of it a bit more over the many years since i've been out.  however, when i was in, there wasn't much time or place for civility with what my job was.


Edited by Steve- 2009-12-30 10:47 AM

Tracy,
Keep up the good work!  I'm planning on a TWO workout day today with having done a morning 30-minute run followed by weights and Core, then tonight I hopefully can make it to 5:30pm Spin Class.

My legs are going to be screaming and I love it...

Steve/Scott

With all of the bike conversations that have been going back and forth I have a couple of questions for you.

1. Since many of us move to trainers or CTs over the winter how should we think about the amount of time we spend during each session versus a similar outside ride?  When outside, I have the ability to coast, draft, etc. Is a 2 hour trainer ride worth more than a 2 hour outdoor ride?

2. I know most of us do TT's to establish LT (which I think you also call FTP, right?), but have you ever used testing to establish VO2?  What do you do with that kind of information?

Thanks Guys,
Suzy

1)  generally accepted time reduction by the coaching community for trainer rides is 20-30% of ourdoor ride time.

2)  V02 max testing is expensive (actually, correct/accurate V02 max testing is expensive...you can get less expensive but inaccurate tests done) and the result has generally had little value in building endurance sports training regimens.  in the world of endurance sports, V02 max tests are generally used as not much more than talent identifiers.  increasing your V02 has less effect on endurance performance than increasing your LT or FTP.  additionally, it has been shown in runners that a runner with a lower V02 max can run a faster marathon than one with a higher V02.  This is primarily because the runner with the lower V02 had a higher LTHR (closer to their max HR) than the runner with the lower V02.  additionally, excelling in endurance sports (particularly HIM and IM races) is all about being able to race at a higher % of your LTHR (or FTP) than your competitor...all else being equal.  this is one of the main reasons it is so important to train just below your LTHR (or FTP) for longer and longer time periods as your HIM or IM race draws near.  I have my IM athletes do long rides where they eventually build to several hours of ride time at this level (level = just below LTHR or FTP).

Regarding your ? about LT = FTP...this is generally directly correlated and typically occurs at or near the same time...so for all intents and purposes, yes.

regarding your ? about whether or not we've used testing to establish V02.  yes.  but we have our athletes (who want it) go to center that has the proper equipment; which usually costs approx $25,000 for a full metabolic cart...the only way to accurately measure it (although this statement has been debated ad nauseum by lower priced v02 max testing competitors).  have I been tested and do I know what my V02 max is...yes.  Does my coach use that information to formulate my training?  No.



Edited by Steve- 2009-12-30 6:17 PM

Thank you all for helping me through a 113 mile running month. I'm pretty sure this is my 1st time above 100.  I only recently began to keep track.  I signed up for a triathlon swim class next month. Looking forward to it (small lie).  Have a GREAT last day of this decade

Happy New Year's Eve!

Every year at this time, I pull together my '10 goals and I am guessing you do to. Does anyone want to share them?  or provide feedback on mine?  I always try to put a mix of no brainers and stretch goals so I feel better about the year.

Qualitative
1. Trust the plan and its author
2. Get the body healthy and keep it that way.  Don't ignore pain for the sake of the workout.
3. Embrace the chaos of OWS.  Stand your ground.

Quantitative
1. Finish IM WI. Have the guts to sign up again.
2. Break 2:00/100 yards in swimming
3. Finish a HIM in less than 5:45
4. Half Marathon PR less than 1:39 (stand alone)

Suzy




Edited by SSMinnow 2009-12-31 6:58 AM

Wow, great job!  Awesome benchmark to have beat.

Tri swim class sounds fun.  How long is it and what will you be doing?  Is it different from a Master's Swim class?

This is the description from the class. (It's a community Ed class)

"This class is for the adult athlete who has the determination to complete a

triathlon, but would like to gain the confidence in their stroke to finish the

swim. Swimmers will be taught the necessary skills for efficient strokes as

well as be given tips on how to participate in an open water swim."

It is only 4 sessions of 1 hour each, but I am hoping that is enough time to get some good pointers.  I think of myself as a decent swimmer, but I have a funny feeling I'm still doing it all wrong.  Not sure what a masters swim class is, but I doubt we have that here in Chelsea.

Edited by knewbike 2009-12-31 10:54 AM

if you like, you could have someone videotape you (above water) swimming and email me the video and I could see if i can give you any pointers to help you.

Hey, that's super! I may recruit my wife.

If I figure out the technology, could I do this also?  I'm having trouble finding a masters swim group that is less than double my current gym fees.

Edited by DTraitor 2009-12-31 3:24 PM

I'm on a quest to find out what the qualifying times are for Worlds at Racine.  Since this is the first year that Racine is an IM branded event, have they posted that information or will it be dependent on the number of individuals in each age group? 

Another person crunched these numbers for me - AVG times at Racine for the top 10 in my AG:

OA Time - 4:20:06

Swim -  25:33  (1:13 /100 yards)  
Bike - 2:21:25  (23.76 mph)  
Run - 1:29:39 (6:50 pace)

T1 - 1:53   T2 - 1:13

Today, right now - I think the bike and run would be within my range by that time.  The swim scares me, that's cutting my current swim times by almost half.  Since I've sucked at swimming and am self taught, some good coaching should get me to where I need to be... right?

yes, of course.  obviously it won't be nearly as effective as in-person, but that isn't possible (obviously).

also, check out our facbook group.  there are some great swim videos there.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=157848632400

yes, it similar to qualifying for IMWC...there is not specific time, just a certain number of slots per AG.  they have not released the number of slots for each AG yet (as far as I know).  However, it typically is only 3-5 slots per AG + rolldown.

regarding swimming...reducing your swim times by 50% is definitely nothing to take lightly.  work work work work on your technique like there is no tomorrow ASAP.  don't worry about volume, just focus on technique.  if you've plateaued you'll need to find a coach in your area that is GOOD that can get you highly efficient in the water in very short order.  and remember, this is lake michigan and usually has 2-3ft swells most days so swimming straight can be a very big challenge so don't compare your pool times/100m to the past race results times/100m.  in addition, and to complicate things, the swim at Racine has been short several times in the recent past so swim splits are fast.




Edited by Steve- 2009-12-31 4:25 PM

You ever see the movie Dumb and Dumber - I feel like the guy who get's turned down by the girl saying his chances are more like 1 in a million....

but his response - "So you're telling me there's a chance...."

Edited by JHagerman 2009-12-31 5:29 PM

If I may add. Steve is a great swim coach. He has great technique. He really, really helped me zero in on what was holding me back in the water.

Ha ha ha. That is my wife and I's favorite comedy classic of all time!

Racine Slot Allocation Policy (45 Age Group Slots)

"At least one slot shall be allocated to each five-year age group category in which any age group athlete sends in an application, both male and female, per the age group categories listed above. If there are no athletes entered in the race in a particular age group, then that slot will be moved to the largest populated age group in that same gender. For additional age group slots, slot allocation shall be representative of the actual number of age grouper applicants in each category in the race. As an example, if 8% of the age-group applicants are females 40-44, then 8% of these slots would be allocated in the female 40-44 category."

So should I be thinking about training to meet the times I mentioned above or should I focus on a faster time?  After I heal up (next week) I will be finishing my prep phase (Off Season) of training.  From there I start my base phase the last week of January - that's when the real training starts.  I have my base/build/peak/taper weeks all organized, but not my specific workouts. 

15 Weeks Base Phase  Jan31-May15
6 Weeks Build Phase   May16-June26
3 Weeks Peak/Race     June26-July16

My basic plan is to tap into a BT training plan for each phase by selecting the most appropriate set of weeks.   I know I need the swim help - that's been my limiter for 2 years.

Look, you want the truth?  (I'm sure you can handle it unlike what some people say on the stand in a "few good men")  figured we could continue using movie references 

Here's the truth...as crude as it may (or may not) come across.

First and foremost, "historical performance is not indicative of future results".  What I mean by this is that when trying to qualify for an IMWC or HIMWC slot you should only use previous qualifying times to determine IF you should shoot for qualifying.  You should NEVER use pervious qualifying times as a goal to qualify.

In other words; look at previous qualifying times simply to ascertain whether or not it is in the realm of possibility that you should focus your energies to actually qualify.  Then throw those times away, get them  out of your head as they are useless for anything else other than that; particularly in a first time HIMWC qualifying race course like Racine.

Once you have determined (and I think you have determined) that you are close enough to focus your season's training to try to qualify what you need to do is train right and then race your freggin' head off on race day and ensure that you do 100%-120% of your effort that day and don't even think about your finish time because you can't control the race clock, you can only control your speed as the race clock is running.  Furthermore, you can not control who shows up on race day in your age group or what the weather will be like, or whether or not the swim, bike, and/or run courses will be too long or too short.  All you can control is your training leading up to that day and your racing on that day and nothing else.

The last thing you want to do is shoot for a time that "looks like" it will get you to qualify, hit that time on race day (focusing only on the race clock and not focusing on giving it 100%-120% on race day) only to find out the swim was short and 2 guys who are physiological freaks bumped you out of your HIMWC spot.

So focus on YOU and what YOU can do and don't worry about anyone or anything else because you have absolutely NO control over anything else.  Don't shoot for a specific time, shoot for a specific effort on race day...that is 100%-120%.

Makes sense?





Edited by Steve- 2009-12-31 9:19 PM

Makes more sense than the qualifying slots thing in itself.  Thank you.  I'll train to give it my best (and some).  In the mean time, expect some detailed training questions in the near future

Thank you again, it also helps for me to remember that this is my first HIM. As if it isn't already in my mind, I need to realize that I've never done this distance.  Do my best and forget the rest.

Remember that athletic execution experience at the specific race distance also contributes to success.  However, if you truly do your best on race day (and the only person that can answer that accurately is the one in the mirror), no matter what the outcome turns out to be; you'll be happy.



Edited by Steve- 2010-01-01 8:16 AM