JohnnyKay's HIM & IM focused Group - CLOSED (Page 6)

Hi everyone!  We got slammed with snow last night and today.  It's absolutely crazy outside with all the snow and drifting- luckily I got a snow day.  I'm thinking about setting up the bike and getting a ride in on the trainer this afternoon.  Didn't get anything in yesterday since it took me twice as long to get to and from work.
I did an indoor triathlon on Sunday in Wheaton, IL.  It was a lot of fun, somehow they placed me in the elite wave with three pro triathletes, which definetely forced me to push myself pretty hard, especially on the swim.  I like the indoor races in the winter, it's a fun switch up in my training.
What advice does anyone have regarding nutrition for a HIM?  I have used Accelerade, Accelgel, and Enderox in the past, and in the Olympic distance race this past year I used about 1 gel/hr and water.  Usually I don't take in anything other than water during a race, but I want to make sure to stay fueled during the HIM.  Any advice?  I know this is an individualized thing, but I want to start trying things with my training now so I know what will work on race day.
Thanks and happy snow day to those who are buried in like me!

Generic plans, like the one you are following, aren't bad as a guideline.  The problem comes when your "rest of life" doesn't fall neatly into the assumptions made by the plan creator.  Your "rest of life" may be a little more extreme than most, making adjustments a greater challenge.

My thought is if you can do something on a few of those days, great.  But don't worry about hitting prescribed times, distances or intensities.  Use your time off to accumulate most of your training stress.  A coach could be helpful in your kind of situation.  But barring that, you're probably left to doing a little more experimentation and seeing how things work for you.  While you may not be doing much training during those shifts, you may also not have enough true recovery if you stack your off days too heavily.  I'll try to watch what you're doing in your logs and maybe throw out some suggestions, but that's about all they are--suggestions to think about or try.  Don't follow any "plan" or advice into a brick wall. 

Just rain and ice for us this time.

As far as nutrition, it does tend to be pretty individual.  My advice is to keep it as simple as possible.  See what they will have on course and use those products if you can.  I also prefer little-to-no solids, keeping everything liquid or semi-liquid (gels).  Some pepoole like some protein in longer races as it gives them a more "satisfied" feeling.  But, all you really need are carbs.  Whatever is easily digestible by you and does not cause any GI distress (e.g., some people find drinks high in fructose to be a problem).  For amount, it depends partly on body size and partly on your ability to digest at your race intensity.  But very broadly, 200-350 cal/hr on the bike and about half that on the run is probably where most people fall out. 

Since I'm larger-than-average, for a HIM I likely look to take in roughly 2 gels/hr plus 0.5-1 bottle of sports drink (like Gatorade Endurance).  This gives me ~300-350 cal/hr plus some electrolytes.  I'll usually take the gels with water--if you only drink water, you'll probably want to make sure you are getting some electrolytes in your nutrition or though supplementing with "salt" tabs.  On the run, I probably take a couple gels and drink water or sports drink, depending how I feel, at most aid stations (assuming ~every mile or so).  This probably gives me ~125-175 cal/hr.

Hey, snow in Chicago was crazy yesterday!  You know it's a lot of snow when the snowplow gets stuck plowing snow.  Yikes. 

Hey gang, hope everyone is doing well--recovering from the winter storm if it hit you.  Got hit by a little bug last night and am still a little "out of it" today.  Hopefully will be back to normal tomorrow and try to check in with people before the weekend. 

Keep the questions/topics for discussion coming!

I am just wondering about racing body weight and want to get your opinion on it.

I am 6'2" and right now weigh 194 pounds( and have for awhile). I feel like I am skinnier than I have been in a long time and my pants are all falling down, but I havent lost any weight! I cant seem to get below this weight. Alot of things I read say ideal race weight for me would be between 180-185 pounds. I dont know if I can lose 9 pounds.

I have of course heard that muscle weighs more than fat, but I have a hard time believing I have more muscle now than I did when I was playing college ball and I weighed 185 pounds.

Am I to heavy? Should I try harder to lose weight?

I have a feeling that most people would answer this question with the "whatever works for you" response, so I am just asking for your personal opinion on this.

Hope my rambling makes sense.

here is my opinion that I relay to all who ask..... Do your training, eat well (aka highly dense nutritional foods, less processed the better) and IF you can do those things, let your weight fall where it may. Again, my own personal opinion coming from a guy who is 6' and races at 150-155lbs and 7% body fat. So take what you can use and leave the rest.

I am close to your height (maybe a whisker taller) and weight (currently ~190-192 but still carrying about 2-4lbs from the holidays).  My racing weight is usually in the 187-190 area.  I am sure that if I really wanted to, and was willing to sacrifice, I could get down to 180--perhaps even a little lower.  But, I am down 25lbs from when I started tris and below my weight in college (where I rowed).  I am healthier than I have ever been and feel great.  I eat relatively smart most of the time, but I am not one to deny myself a piece of birthday cake or an evening snack either. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is pretty close to what Steve suggested.  Eat "well" as much as you can and you will likely eventually find that "comfortable" weight for yourself (maybe you're already there).  I think that's good enough for most people in this sport (or any other for that matter).  If you are really looking to maximize performance, then you would want to consider working harder at losing weight.  But you definitely have to be willing to make additional sacrifices to do that.

So, I was asked my opinion on a 30-week training plan versus a shorter one.  Figured this would be a good one for the group since we do have other people who have done longer races and may have varrying perspectives on it.  Here's mine.

First, there really isn't anything inherently better or worse about a short or long training program.  But, the shorter the program that you follow, the more important the assumptions that are made when you start the plan.  I'll try to use myself as an example and hope that makes sense.

My last IM (2009) I did a 10-week IM training program and had a great race.  But I would not use that as evidence that a 10-week program will produce great results for everyone.  I had trained earlier in the year for a HIM.  And then a month focusing on an oly.  It was simply that final 10-weeks where I "switched" to IM training.  For me, I decided this works best.  I don't worry about doing any really long rides (which are the toughest for me, logistically) until those last couple months.  But I do a lot of 2-3hr rides at an effort level well above where a lot of training plans guide people.

Mentally, it also makes it easier by focusing my efforts on those intermediate goals (the shorter races) and not get locked into stressing about ONE BIG RACE.  30 weeks (even 20 weeks) of focusing on just one race can be tough for me.  But I know others who have used long IM training plans without much issue.  So this probably depends on your individual mindset.

That 10-week program won't work for somebody who hasn't been training consistently for a good while coming into it.  It's not about the "plan" per se.  Or doing a particular workout.  Its the sum total of all the work you've done over an extended time frame.  Sure, the most recent work matters the most.  But the work you did 3 months ago, 6 months ago, even 6 years ago all contributes in endurance events.   Most "canned" plans are in the 20-30 week range because that's a reasonable time frame to build up the vast majority of athletes (who might have enough base to be considering an IM) to the required distances almost regardless of what they have been doing before starting the plan.  And those plans don't necessarily "short-change" you versus a focused 10-week plan as they are mostly constructed with more of an "IM-specific" period over the last several weeks (the really high volume ones).

So, that was maybe a long way of saying I prefer to train at a relatively stable volume most of the year and then do a "race specific" plan over a much shorter time frame.  But somebody could cobble together my training and create a 30-week plan from it, too.  So there's nothing really wrong with using one as long as doing so doesn't wear you down mentally.  That's the greatest risk as I see many IM athletes that hit a "low" when they get about two-thirds through those longer plans.  They've been afraid to modify them at all or take a break earlier and are forced to do so in order to "recharge" just when they are getting into the meat of the program.

Not sure if that gives a great answer, but hopefully gives you some things to think about as you plan out your season.  A scheduled break of a week or two may be more important for any doing later season IMs (not sure how far out we go in our group).  October & November are a long way away! 

If others have experience or thoughts, please share.

I am currently using the Fink 30 week plan although I do not follow it religiously.  First and most important for me is that I have to have realistic goals and often family/work/life in general make it impossible to do all the planned training sessions.  I do consider the plan as a rough guide but not as "the only way I will succeed".  I do these events first and foremost for the enjoyment.  For me, the actual IM race day is just the icing on the cake.  It's the training, struggles, mini accomplishments, dedication along the way that bring most meaning to me.  The plan serves as a guide to keep me going, and to ensure I can do what's asked, not that I will always do it. 

Amen Brother!!!

Thanks John/Jim. I'm about to begin the 30 week plan in another week, although my current fitness level is probably ahead of where it starts (not a bad thing). I'm going to use it as a guideline and not follow it religiously, similar to you Jim. The 30 weeks will allow me to miss some workouts when family comes first, sickness, injury, etc etc.
Have a great weekend everybody.

Hi,
I've been almost reluctant to post since our weather on the West Coast has been in the 70's and sunny.  Quick question however, this 30 week plan sounds interesting.  Can someone post more information or a link to where I can find a copy?

Thanks,
John

Oops, just found the answer to my question.  In case anyone else was wondering, the 30 week plan is from Don Fink's book, Be IronFit.  I like the book.  The only problem I had with his training plan was that Week One started with a 1600 meter swim (almost a mile).  

If anyone has the Fink training plan in computer format, I'd be most appreciative.  I need to add a few weeks of swim just to get to the starting point.  Otherwise, I'll be happy to share whatever I create.

Thanks,
John

Edited by teamssj 2011-02-05 1:42 AM

John, I think I have it (got it from another BT member). I'll check my computer files at work on Monday and let you know. It's pretty cool, as you enter your race date and it plugs in your beginning date/etc.

Steve- Thanks for the workout ideas. I tried the spin ups the other day and that felt great. I just did some easy spinning today since I am running a 5K tomorrow, but I am looking forward to trying the single leg drills next week.

Jennifer- John covered the nutrition very well, but I would just like to suggest that you practice your nutrition in training. I find for me that gels and sport drinks can upset my stomach, but for some unknown reason cliff shot blocks don't bother me at all. I have no idea why since they are all pretty much the same thing just slightly different form, so maybe I am just weird.

We have been lucky here with the weather. Some snow and ice but not enough to keep me from running outside. It was 3 degrees for my run yesterday morning, but no wind so it actually felt pretty good

Anthony

Instead of long bike ride today/short run, I chose to go skiing/snowboarding with my son.  Ended up being a pretty decent work out (5 + hours).  I'm exhausted and my legs feel very heavy, even more than the long ride would have done.  Now off to Texas Roadhouse to have a large slab of prime rib with my boys.  The perfect ending to an awesome day!  Hope everyone else is having a great weekend!!

Johnny and everybody..

Below is my race plan:

Races

1. C         5/14     Scenic View Duo 2m/10m/2m  Goal 1:30
2. B          5/22     Mini pool 300y/10m/2.5m        Goal: learn.  Swim=7, t1=2, bike=38, t2=2, run=23. total=1:12
3. C         5/29     memorial day 5k Goal 28:00
4. B          6/12     Sprint .25m/10m/3.1m Goal 2:00
5. B          6/26     Oly       1500m/24.9m/6.2m Goal 3:35
6. C         7/10     Sprint   0.5m/12.5m/3.1m Goal 2:00
7. B          8/14     Bike 44m
8. B          8/21     Oly-Park City Mossman           1500m/24.9m/6.2m Goal 3:35
9. A         9/11     Toughman Tri HIM       1.2m/56m/13.1m Goal 6:00

So looking for a training plan the gets me ready for the early TRIs and builds up to the HIM in September.  I've been doing a little swim, bike, run lately along with total body strength or cadrio workouts.   Are there particular plans on BT that I should review/use?  Should I do an early plan and then a 16  week plan start May 22nd for HIM?   Or a 20 week?  Thoughts?  anybody??

Are the basic plans on here good or do I need to upgrade??


Peter

Edited by Pschaff 2011-02-05 11:18 PM

Peter,

Ther are plenty of good plans available on BT.  The free ones tend to be the most basic, often providing just "minutes" (ie, bike 60 minutes, swim 45 minutes or run 30 minutes) and let you decide how to fill those "minutes".  But there si a free HIM plan that includes detailed workouts.  It is certainly more than adequate to get someone through an HIM.  In fact, it's what I used my first season at BT (I actually used it to prep for an oly and then repeated plus built onto it to get to my first HIM a couple months later).  In hindsight, many find it to be a little bit light on bike training but there is easily room for you to do more of it if you want.

The upgraded plans (all of which include detailed workouts) will give you more options to choose from and to put plans together to help build out a "season" a little more consistently.  I have used a couple of those in the past too and they all seem reasonable.

As far as what you should be doing now, I'd say keep building up your swim, bike & run workouts more.  There's nothing wrong with total body strength/cardio workouts--and if you enjoy them, I hate to tell anybody to stop doing any kind of exercise.  But there is little doubt that your time is best spent by swimming, biking and running in order to prepare for triathlons.  So if your focus is a triathlon race, then your training time should be focused on those three sports with other things included as extras.  An exception might be if you had to do something to rehab an injury or address a known muscular imbalance.  Then those items would obviously be every bit as important as swimming, biking and running.

Again, the above is specifically focused on how to best prepare for a triathlon.  As Jim mentioned, most of us do this for enjoyment.  And there are many other things that "just" swimming, biking & running might not prepare you best for (like skiing/snowboarding all day) but are still important parts of your life.  For example, whereas I don't do any traditional strength training, many people get great enjoyment out of the weight room (like the way it makes them feel, look, etc).  Dropping it, for them, would make them less happy even if it did happen to make them slightly faster triathletes by allowing them to SBR a little more.  I would never recommend that those people stop lifting weights.  If another person said that going a little faster in triathlon would make them happier, regardless of what that took,  then I would recommend they drop the weight training and replace it with tri-specific training.  Hopefully, that balances my advice above and you can make a better decision on what is best for you to focus on.  If you don't first assess all your goals and constraints, then it's more difficult to give a simple answer.

Wow, that sounds like a great day! Snowboarding does look like a great workout. Prime rib does sound like the perfect ending. A Texas Roadhouse is opening here in a couple of weeks. Sounds like my kind of place. Steak, ribs, salad, and beer; my personal 4 basic food groups.

Anthony

Guess your weekend ended on a high note. 

Hi, just got back from the gym.  I'm on my third night of night shifts and my schedule/circadian rhythms are way out of wack (I work nights once every few months for a 7 day stretch).  It took lots to get me to get up this afternoon and go to the gym.  It wasn't as much physical fatigue as it was mental.  My job requires constant thinking, problem solving and by the end of the shift I'm exhausted.  Anyway, after about ten minutes on the treadmill I suddenly felt like the mental fog diasappeared and I wound up with a pretty decent run.  I know we talk lots about physical fatigue and when to give it a rest, but I don't hear much about mental fatigue.  Usually exercise does help to clear my mind, (almost therapeutic) but am curious what others think?  In other words, do you usually try to push past this type of fatigue? 
Hope everyone is having a great week!

Hey all:

I'm back.  Had to unplug for a few days for the birth of our daughter, Adia Nicole (pronounced "aye-dee-uh").






Ok.  I'm done gloating.  

Congratulations to you and your wife Steve!!