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Swimmer's Group (Olympic Distance Animals) - OPEN (Page 6)
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 2013-05-21 5:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
Member 109  Bartlett, TN |  Subject: Race PaceFelicity--Thanks for the encouragement. Jason gave a good explanation regarding his race paces near the bottom of page 7 of our old mentor program: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... I used this as a guide with plans to back off from his effort levels. There can be a big difference between a sprint and an olympic from what I can tell. I built my training up a good deal for this past race but still tried to hold down my effort for this first attempt. I am looking at the schedules for my next race. I'm interested in a sprint on July 20 or August 4; maybe June 29. There are some good variances between the length of the sprints. The one on August 4 is 1/2-mile/22-mile/3.75-mile trail run (.8k/35k/6k) while the one on July 20 is 1/3-mile/13-mile/3-mile (.53k/21k/4.8k) and there is another one in between that time that is even shorter. I want to do another maybe Olympic this year or at least the next Memphis-in-May. I'm also looking at the sprint in October we did last year which is .33-miles/16.5-miles/3-miles. So, plenty to do but nothing big unless we lock in on an Olympic later this year. I'm starting vacation tomorrow and will not get a lot of training done for the next 10 days or so. I plan to jump back into training when I return but haven't come up with a good plan yet. I will have had the taper week before the race plus two weeks of limited training during vacation (probably running only but even that will be limited). I'm thinking something similar to BT's free 2x Olympic plan with an extra bike each week plus racquetball and go back to the weights. Jason--I know you aren't a coach but if you have time to look at my training logs and give any suggestions for my summer routine let me know. I probably need to come up with a target date first. Edited by Day-Day 2013-05-21 5:29 PM |
| 2013-05-21 6:32 PM in reply to: Day-Day |
Extreme Veteran 681  Mount Joy | Subject: RE: Race Pace No problem David, I will take a look when I get a chance hopefully tonight sometime. Thinking about getting my coaching cert and starting something up soon  |
| 2013-05-21 7:18 PM in reply to: Day-Day |
Regular 173 NSW | Subject: RE: Race Pace David, sounds like you have a busy season coming up...this is just the start for you! I will print out Jason's words of wisdom before next Friday (when we fly to Cairns for our holiday). The funny thing is I am not sure what the whole sprinting is in a sprint, as I have pushed myself but not to vommy pace (sorry hope that makes sense). Feeling REALLY scared about double the distance now! I did 1km yesterday afternoon in the wetsuit in the ocean baths, and apart from the first 100m (it was 18c in the water) did a cruisy 19mins30secs. Was hoping to do more but it was getting dark. Felicity |
| 2013-05-21 7:44 PM in reply to: flossybach |
Member 67 | Subject: Fell Off The Planet! Howdy everyone! I kind of fell of the planet there for a little bit. Divemedic: I have done the 1/2 Bluenose a couple of times... Apparently Maple Street hill in Dartmouth is the worst hill ever according to some of my more elite running friends. The one hill here in my corner of Alberta is always busy with runners doing hill training. I miss Halifax as there were so many choices for hills. LOL Glad to read all of the VERY sucessful race reports! Holy crow! Good show, everyone! I am getting psyched to begin training for the holy mother - the Oly in August. A long ways away I know (13 weeks.. feels like ages away..) got my training schedule ready to go. Going for an easy run (between 5 and 7 km) with my husband soonish. I am holding out that the wind will blow itself out a little. All I did this weekend was plant my garden for the summer (flowers, not veggies). Once again, great job! |
| 2013-05-21 9:00 PM in reply to: flossybach |
| Member 109 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Race Pace Originally posted by flossybach David, sounds like you have a busy season coming up...this is just the start for you! ... Felicity There are a few options; we just need to decide which races to do. David |
| 2013-05-21 10:56 PM in reply to: Day-Day |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Race Pace Ran 6.16 km with my husband at a fairly okay pace. Logged it too! However, my toe started to bug me. I am so frustrated because I should not be having toe pain as I did all that was recommended of me by the physio. I am looking into cortisone tomorrow - back to physio to see if I have other options long term besides surgery for Morton's neuroma. -sigh- So frustrated right now. |
| 2013-05-22 9:28 AM in reply to: RunningReenie |
Member 88 Little Harbour | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Maybe next year I will do the Bluenose..if I did that there would be a race a month may-aug..two in June maybe two in July. My ultimate goal is this . www.epicdartmouth.com. Also someday the Timberman 70.3 |
| 2013-05-22 9:52 AM in reply to: RunningReenie |
Member 103 East of the Rockies | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Originally posted by RunningReenie Glad to read all of the VERY sucessful race reports! Holy crow! Good show, everyone! I am getting psyched to begin training for the holy mother - the Oly in August. A long ways away I know (13 weeks.. feels like ages away..) got my training schedule ready to go. Going for an easy run (between 5 and 7 km) with my husband soonish. I am holding out that the wind will blow itself out a little. Irene which OLY are you doing in August? I am doing the OLY in Calgary, Lake Chaparral, August 11. My "A" race this year. Howard |
| 2013-05-22 9:54 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 103 East of the Rockies | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! |
| 2013-05-22 10:31 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! |
| 2013-05-22 10:31 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Sorry! Triple post apparently. Computer issues in Alberta. Edited by RunningReenie 2013-05-22 10:34 AM |
| 2013-05-22 10:32 AM in reply to: hwkirby |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Originally posted by hwkirby Irene which OLY are you doing in August? I am doing the OLY in Calgary, Lake Chaparral, August 11. My "A" race this year. Howard Howard: The Fort Macloed Tri on August 18 (or 17?). Obviously in FOrt Macloed. It is a small one. If I like it, I will look to doing more next year with more open water swims maybe. This one is a pool swim. |
| 2013-05-23 7:43 AM in reply to: RunningReenie |
Regular 173 NSW | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Irene, you sound very excited! Hope your foot is Ok. I did a session on the bike trainer this morning....45mins, that was enough. challenging but boring all the same. Its getting into winter hear 13-17C. Today has been very windy, wet and chilly.Looking forward to Cairns and our holiday in the tropics |
| 2013-05-23 9:07 AM in reply to: flossybach |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Fell Off The Planet! Felicity: I am happy that it was nothing serious according to the physio and cortisone shots are an option to get me through the training season. And that is as about as good news as I can hear I guess. I was just happy to run. Running makes me energized... :-) Have a great day all! |
| 2013-05-23 9:33 AM in reply to: Day-Day |
Extreme Veteran 681 Mount Joy | Subject: RE: Race Pace David, I was able to go through your training logs. I basically went back to February and made my way through up to your race on Sunday. First thing that pops out to me is without a doubt you need to be on the bike more! 30-50 per week is not really enough and biking seems to be your weak discipline. If I were you, I would at least try to get on the bike 4x a week with one of those rides being 2 hours or more. The bike is all about the ability to make yourself suffer and when the pain is telling your brain to stop you push through that. Look up 2x20 workouts for the bike. Also 5 minute intervals with 1 minute rest are great for the bike at well. Every time I do any kind of structured workout like the ones mentioned, I either jump on the trainer or ride a section of road (typically the 3 mile loop by my house) where I can control my efforts for the entire duration because I don't have to work about traffic signals and it is fairly flat. I see you use some Sufferfest videos which are also good. I use them as well and by the end of those workouts you need to feel like you can't do another one. Occasionally I have had to lay down on the floor for a while after those workouts. Your swimming looks solid and you are certainly putting in the miles for the run. Not sure what happened at your last race with the run as it looks like your pace was way off your training paces. If you want to get faster on the run, I am a firm believer that you do not have to run more, just have good quality runs. If you look at my logs I only run 3x per week, yet my running this season has improved significantly. I typically do 1 long easy run, 1 tempo run and a track workout. If I do a tough track or tempo workout I will do two easy longer runs rather than adding another tough session. But without a doubt get on the bike more. It is the longest part of a triathlon so it should get most of the attention in training. |
| 2013-05-23 12:02 PM in reply to: Day-Day |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Race Pace Originally posted by Day-Day Felicity--Thanks for the encouragement. Jason gave a good explanation regarding his race paces near the bottom of page 7 of our old mentor program: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... I used this as a guide with plans to back off from his effort levels. There can be a big difference between a sprint and an olympic from what I can tell. Good explanation, indeed. So, since no good deed goes unpunished, here's a follow up question. Coming in to this season, my fitness and open race times are much better than last season, but I haven't done a tri (and have never done an oly) with that level of fitness. Is there a way to estimate paces for an Oly based off open run times, ~25 mile hard ride times or some metric for swim times (300yd, 400 yd, 500yd times or something?)? I assume it would be at a discount to them and know it will vary (cook the bike and blow the run kinda thing), but general guidelines would be helpful! Just trying to get a handle on pace/power based on my current race times, but in multisport mode, rather than just winging it. I know I'll have a better idea once I do my test Oly on June 30, but I'd like to hit that one with as clear an idea as possible, so the info is more accurate/usable for the July 21st Oly. Thanks!! |
| 2013-05-23 5:20 PM in reply to: swimmer04 |
Regular 173 NSW | Subject: RE: Race Pace Originally posted by swimmer04 David, I was able to go through your training logs. I basically went back to February and made my way through up to your race on Sunday. First thing that pops out to me is without a doubt you need to be on the bike more! 30-50 per week is not really enough and biking seems to be your weak discipline. If I were you, I would at least try to get on the bike 4x a week with one of those rides being 2 hours or more. The bike is all about the ability to make yourself suffer and when the pain is telling your brain to stop you push through that. Look up 2x20 workouts for the bike. Also 5 minute intervals with 1 minute rest are great for the bike at well. Every time I do any kind of structured workout like the ones mentioned, I either jump on the trainer or ride a section of road (typically the 3 mile loop by my house) where I can control my efforts for the entire duration because I don't have to work about traffic signals and it is fairly flat. I see you use some Sufferfest videos which are also good. I use them as well and by the end of those workouts you need to feel like you can't do another one. Occasionally I have had to lay down on the floor for a while after those workouts. Your swimming looks solid and you are certainly putting in the miles for the run. Not sure what happened at your last race with the run as it looks like your pace was way off your training paces. If you want to get faster on the run, I am a firm believer that you do not have to run more, just have good quality runs. If you look at my logs I only run 3x per week, yet my running this season has improved significantly. I typically do 1 long easy run, 1 tempo run and a track workout. If I do a tough track or tempo workout I will do two easy longer runs rather than adding another tough session. But without a doubt get on the bike more. It is the longest part of a triathlon so it should get most of the attention in training. Jason, you are a pretty hard taskmaster! This is prob why you are winning your AG in comps. Looking at that amt of training there is no way I could do that as well as all the other stuff I need to do inlife and work. Now I am getting worried about my Oly on the 2nd June! I am trying to keep it inperspective though, it is the first one and this time just hoping to get around the course, get a feel for the distance, the pacing and an idea of what I should do to improve. No doubt that will be more time on the bike.....but I have been spooked lately due to a bunch of cycling fatalities, and seriously considering taking up mountain biking to build power, or Cyclocross..... Anyhow thanks for your post....I feel tired just reading it. |
| 2013-05-23 5:32 PM in reply to: flossybach |
Extreme Veteran 681 Mount Joy | Subject: RE: Race Pace Haha Felicity by no means do you need to try and keep up with me. Go out and enjoy your race and you will be fine. I could just tell from David's logs that his cycling is his weak spot. Its funny though cause sometimes people ask me how you maintain all this training and still have time for life! I always tell them I have a very understanding wife with a similarly demanding sport (horseback riding) and we communicate a lot. I also do most of my training first thing in the morning. It was actually interesting because the other day me and my wife were talking about the race this past weekend and she said if I wanted more time to train to let her know cause she wants me to do good in Iowa. Although that was extremely nice of her and she is the best I told her the amount I train now is plenty and that I just need to tweak some training methods and that I also didn't want to spend anymore time away from her. Triathlons is something I am passionate about, but it is not the only thing in my life. |
| 2013-05-24 3:41 AM in reply to: swimmer04 |
Regular 173 NSW | Subject: RE: Race Pace Originally posted by swimmer04 Haha Felicity by no means do you need to try and keep up with me. Go out and enjoy your race and you will be fine. I could just tell from David's logs that his cycling is his weak spot. Its funny though cause sometimes people ask me how you maintain all this training and still have time for life! I always tell them I have a very understanding wife with a similarly demanding sport (horseback riding) and we communicate a lot. I also do most of my training first thing in the morning. It was actually interesting because the other day me and my wife were talking about the race this past weekend and she said if I wanted more time to train to let her know cause she wants me to do good in Iowa. Although that was extremely nice of her and she is the best I told her the amount I train now is plenty and that I just need to tweak some training methods and that I also didn't want to spend anymore time away from her. Triathlons is something I am passionate about, but it is not the only thing in my life. Its good to hear that triathlon is not the centre of you life. There are quite alot of people, where that does happen. That is struggle that I find with 3 kids and their responsiblities around sport as well as my work responsiblities and study.....its all a bit overwhelming at the moment, not sure if its nerves... |
| 2013-05-24 4:49 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Member 109 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Race Pace Thanks for taking a look at my logs Jason. I think you nailed it; my run quantity was high enough but not so much in quality while my bike quality may have been okay (especially on the trainer) but quantity was lacking. I have found a few new routes that I think I will be able to work in some bike intervals on the road. I've known biking was weak; most of my logged "miles" were on the trainer. I bombed the run in my race because I ran out of energy. Maybe some combination of swimming too fast and no fluids or snack during bike. It was the hottest day (heat and humidity) that we've had all spring and I'm usually used to it by now but the spring has been so cool this year. Oh well, still young and learning  I thought I was doing the 20-week training plan to prepare for the Olympic race last Sunday but now realize I was actually training for touring Universal Studios and Walt Disney World.  My "kids" are vacationing with us and my daughter and I are planning to finally get a run in tomorrow. Felicity--I put a lot of my own athletics and sports to the side while my kids were growing up as well. I now have more time if I can keep work out of the way and if I don't pick up an injury. David Edited by Day-Day 2013-05-24 7:41 PM |
| 2013-05-25 7:44 AM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Extreme Veteran 681 Mount Joy | Subject: RE: Race Pace Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by Day-Day Felicity--Thanks for the encouragement. Jason gave a good explanation regarding his race paces near the bottom of page 7 of our old mentor program: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... I used this as a guide with plans to back off from his effort levels. There can be a big difference between a sprint and an olympic from what I can tell. Good explanation, indeed. So, since no good deed goes unpunished, here's a follow up question. Coming in to this season, my fitness and open race times are much better than last season, but I haven't done a tri (and have never done an oly) with that level of fitness. Is there a way to estimate paces for an Oly based off open run times, ~25 mile hard ride times or some metric for swim times (300yd, 400 yd, 500yd times or something?)? I assume it would be at a discount to them and know it will vary (cook the bike and blow the run kinda thing), but general guidelines would be helpful! Just trying to get a handle on pace/power based on my current race times, but in multisport mode, rather than just winging it. I know I'll have a better idea once I do my test Oly on June 30, but I'd like to hit that one with as clear an idea as possible, so the info is more accurate/usable for the July 21st Oly. Thanks!! Matt, that is a tough question to answer haha. I will do my best to give you an answer, but keep in mind everyone is different and as you probably already know pacing is really about trial and error. For the swim this can vary. In the pool I typically hold 1:10/100yards, but that is certainly not easy, after 8-10 of those I am struggling and pretty tired. In my race Sunday I held 1:16/100 yards, so you can see I kept the pace fairly high, but backed it off a little so that I wouldn't over cook myself from the start. Biking can be a little easier if you use power or know your body pretty well. If you use power , you typically want to be 90-95% of your FTP. I don't use power, but am pretty in tune with my body, so I know to stay slightly below my 1 hour TT effort. The main reason I don't like power is because you can get to engrossed in the numbers, but don't get me wrong it is a great training tool! If you are feeling really well then you may be able to push it a little more, but from the other side if you feel like sh*t and you try to hold your pre-determined power number you could blow up on the run. For pacing the run, take your open 10k and back off maybe :10-:15 second per mile pace. I've never run an open 10k on the road, but have done enough Oly tri's to figure out what I am capable of. For what it is worth, I don't wear my watch for the run either, just go based on feel. This takes time and the best way to develop this feel is to do a lot of track workout where you don't have the up and downs of the road. Hopefully that helps Jason |
| 2013-05-25 8:39 AM in reply to: swimmer04 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Race Pace Thanks Jason - definitely helpful. Confirms my gut feeling, I'm just trying to get some thoughts on how to pace my first Oly. I know it will take a couple to get it dialed in, but I'd like to start as close to "right" (for that day) as possible. I also have a good sense of effort:power and effort:pace on the bike and run, respectively, but am not yet sure about how that translates in a multisport event (see first above!). The 10-15" back off on pace is a good guide, as is the %FTP for the bike. In my sprints last year, I basically got HR up solidly in mid-threshold range for the whole bike and then went puke-fest-pace for the run. If I do that in an Oly or HIM, though, I'm guessing I'll blow up on the run - so pace will be high, but not quite my open pace... Also, wanted to post my new-to-me bike pic!!!! Yep, took the plunge and bought a used P2C (from Brian Richards, aka SYR44 on BT - he just started a biz around it and he did a great job) and some wheels. I've been riding this the last week and just LOVE it - even PR'd a few hill climbs on it (oddly) and have just been hammering the flat Strava segments. Thanks again. Matt (bikes.jpg) Attachments ---------------- bikes.jpg (77KB - 26 downloads) |
Very happy Matt.| 2013-05-25 3:58 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Member 88 Little Harbour | Subject: RE: Race Pace Nice bikes..can't wait to have a Tri-bike. Been so concentrated on swimming lately I decided to go for a run today instead and did roughly 5K in 25-30 mins..no land speed record but good for me. Getting there!! |
| 2013-05-26 1:21 PM in reply to: Divemedic |
| 11 | Subject: RE: Race Pace Great Run! I did a 10 K road race on Saturday on 54 min was very happy with that time, then went Mountain biking in the canyon here was a lot of fun, today my workout is a lot of yard work lol. My biggest news of the week is I did 1600m in the pool no break! Took me 40 min but hey I did it!!! Another question, where the best, cheapest, and best fit place to rent a wetsuit, I am thinking of using xterra but wanted any input. |
| 2013-05-26 3:18 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Race Pace Nice bikes! I am happy with my pace at biking currently so I will stick with my no tri bike. Although tri bars on the Cannondale is something I am considering.... 40.44 km in 1:23:51 on the bike. Fairly flat, 20 km/h head wind on the way home. That is a new PR for me on that distance. And I am only going to get stronger. :-) |
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