Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 60)

Gabe, good luck in your race! Can't wait to hear your story and impression of the city as seen during the marathon.

older2533 - 2011-10-09 12:21 PM

ernestov - 2011-10-03 8:20 AM

 

My first marathon I did 4:10'10"

Gabe, Welcome to the club! 4:08:01 according to the text message I got. I think we should all agree that what is most important is that you beat Ernesto's time. Great job. I want to read the race report.

x2.  Great job!

Congratulations Gabriel on your first marathon! it is a great first time and hopefully it taught you some things about ultra endurance events.

Congratulations on your first marathon Gabe! Impressive time.

Also I  apologize for being so late in acknowledging everyone else's accomplishments as I am finally catching up on the various blogs. 

@Chris, Congratulations on an outstanding time in your first marathon!

@ Jackie,  Congratulations on your first Oly! Nice time too.

@ Carol & Ernesto, congratulations on your races as well!

Ernesto, thanks for tracking my race alerts and updating the gang on my progress!  As you saw, I started conservatively and was doing ok at the beginning of the race on what I thought was the perfect plan to make it under 4 hours.  Up to miles 16-17 I felt I was doing well and had a pace a felt then I could keep (however, I had like a 2-3 minute time difference between the official time and my garmin which was showing that I was going faster and at a better pace.  It could had been affected by the long tunnels at the beginning of the race where I would lose satellite reception).

But once I hit mile 17 I started cramping on my right leg and started feeling the heat.  At that point I could still go with the moderate pain, although not at the same pace.  However, the fun really started when I hit the mythical wall on mile 20-21 where I really started cramping severely on both legs, along with all the negative thoughts that come with that!  Up until mile 24 I was really hurting, but I still felt I had a chance to break 4 hours, so I refused to stop to deal with my cramps and tried to use all of my energy left to recover the pace.  At around mile 24 I was totally shot and new I would not make it in my time goal, so I just pushed myself to reach the finish line.  This is the my garmin link http://connect.garmin.com/activity/120301076

When I finished it was incredible how sore my legs were, to the point where I did not wan't to sit down, because I could not get up (actually it was kind of funny).  After going through the whole end of race process (getting your thermal blanket, gatorade, water, banana, gatorade recovery) they had the best tasting beer you can imagine, after running 26.2 respectable miles!

Overall, it was an incredible experience to be able to participate in such a large, well organized race through one of the most beautiful and diverse cities in the US!  It was also a humbling experience to try to shoot for what one considers a reasonable goal and then to miss it at the end.  However, I guess that is an important part of the experience, to learn from our short comings in order to figure out where do we need to work more, or do differentely in order to do better the next time!

Finally, thank you all for the good wishes and for sharing your stories which are really valuable and appreciated! And Ernesto for your great, coaching and support!  This experience is actually a positive one and I'm ready to start planning for the next big race! Saludos to all!

Good race Gabe!  This endurance stuff seems to be lessons in how to deal with adversity.  Looks like you did great, despite those *&@** demons!  Congratulations. 

You inspired me to go out and run tonight after the rain went away.

Give yourself time to RECOVER. Don't let the enthusiasm get you out there again too soon. A marathon is ravaging for your muscles, let the healing take place and swim for a couple of weeks and start riding your bike VERY EASY for a while.

NO RUNNING for now. If you want to, we can talk about Ironman training later on...

I think you are right - your AT should be round 165 to 167.  There is an extensive HR thread here on BT that walks through testing methodologies (http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1).  The thread goes into an in depth discussion on zones etc., so if you are following Maffetone's protocols and it is working for you - then read at your leisure.  I've learned they are compatible but don't correlate 100%.  The maxim run lots, mostly easy, some hard is what really applies.

Posted by Mike Ricci (official BT Coach) and pasted from the thread is the following:

"Your best bet is to get some lab testing done to find out your Lactate Threshold. If you don't have access to a lab for whatever reason (location or $) don't fret. We have 'field' tests that you can do and the only thing you need is you, your Heart Rate Monitor and some 3 D's: Desire, Determination, and Discipline.

Field test for bike and run:
Determining Bike Training Zones

In biking we want to know our heart rate training zones. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. I do advocate doing both an inside and outside LT tests.

Bike test protocol for inside testing:

The warm-up is 15 minutes of cycling, moving through the different gears, always keeping the cadence above 90 RPMS. Do a few short sprints to get your heart rate up and ready for the test!

You should start out in a gear that you can maintain 90 RPMS in. Make sure you remember what gear you started in.

The 30 minute TT begins.
At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.
The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.
You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.
15 minutes easy cool down.

Example:
Johnny has an average of 156 heart rate for his 30 minute bike TT. If I calculate Johnny's zones using his LT and the Training Bible zones, this is what I come up with:
Zone 1 - 102-125
Zone 2 - 136-139
Zone 3 - 140-145
Zone 4 - 146- 155
Zone 5a - 156-159
Zone 5b - 160-164
Zone 5c - 165-170



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Determining Run Training Zones

In running we want to know our heart rate training zones as well. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. This is best if done on a flat uninterrupted path or trail.

Run test protocol:

After a 15 minute warm-up of easy running, finish with a few quick 20 seconds bursts to get your heart rate in the correct training zone.

The 30 minute TT begins.
At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.
The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.
You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.
15 minutes easy cool down.

Example:
Johnny has an average of 156 heart rate for his 30 minute run TT. If I calculate Johnny's zones using his LT and the Training Bible zones, this is what I come up with:
Zone 1 - 102-125
Zone 2 - 136-139
Zone 3 - 140-145
Zone 4 - 146- 155
Zone 5a - 156-159
Zone 5b - 160-164
Zone 5c - 165-170

IF you want to compare my method of choice to other methods you can read this:
http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/heartrate.html

IF you want to get educated on what the zones mean: http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/beinginthezone.html

If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them.

Train Smart, Train Right, and get fitter and faster. Isn't that the point?

Peace,
Mike
-----
Mike Ricci - D3 Multisport
The Official Coaching Service to BeginnerTriathlete.com
Learn more about online coaching on BT with me
USAT Level III Coach
Head Coach University of CO - 2010 and 2011 National Champions"

Chris:

Here is another example of ignoring your bodies limitations:

https://www.polarpersonaltrainer.com/shared/exercise.ftl?shareTag=f12f0a0b73f07d918082b487c6b0e078

My AT is around 180 - the sad thing is I know it and completely blew through it and then blew up.  I think Gabe and you both ran very smart races and if you made a mistake it was definitely on the margin.  I think that is what we learn in training or should try to learn in training - where our bodies limitations are and how our bodies react in different situation.  That way, in a race you can look for the signs that you can either pick it up or need to slow down and respond accordingly.  Much easier written than put into action.  I'm hoping this Sunday I finally run a smart race and that I have enough in the gas to reach my goals! 

I do want to say that Gabe and you are really inspiring me to think seriously about doing a full marathon next fall.  Thanks!

Mitch

Yep, that sounds about right. Curiously my numbers are pretty close to yours. There's the scientific methods, they are supposedly very accurate but there is the subjective part that it is a snapshop at the time of the test and this could mean many things.

First one, for the test you are supposed to be at top shape and rested (like you would be for an A race).

Second one, the test assumes that your numbers will not change, which is a big lie. VO2 Max and lactate thresholds ARE TRAINABLE. Tempo runs are designed with that purpose in mind.

Yes, I think you should have paid more attention to your HR going up but mostly YOUR BODY KNOWS too and you have to learn how to read it during the race. When you powered up the hill on mile 21 you completely ignored the signs while pursuing an even split, not accounting for terrain changes or the fact that you were in the "wall zone".

Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment.

I've done my serious blow ups in races, the pinnacle was Austin 70.3, with a half marathon walked in almost its entirety.

Regardless of that little mistake, your race was superb for a first marathon. Ask around and you'll know.

Hey Ernesto and gang,

My legs are really, really sore (especially when going through stairs), and it's also very funny in downtown Chicago be able to spot those who ran the marathon by their funny walk.  However, I am enjoying with the good feeling that comes from having completed my first marathon race (I wish one could bottle this positive feeling and save it for later on).

Actually, the night following the race I was feeling better and we had a big celebration party that I had organized with a lot of the Guatemalan's that ran the race (we were about 50 runners at the party) and had a blast until the late hours of the night!  It was the following morning that the soreness started again!

On a separate note, some unexpected events/lessons from my race:

- I now learned my Garmin (Forerunner 305) was 3 minutes behind the official time.  This happened because I had it in "auto pause" to pause whenever I stopped.  At the beginning of the race one goes through 2-3 long tunnels and the Garmin losses satellite reception, so what happened here was that it also stopped tracking time.  So I was running 3 minutes behind my real time without knowing about it (when I hit the 1/2 marathon mark I thought I had gotten there in 1:52 and it was really 1:55).  So, don't put your watches in autopause in races that take place in cities with a lot of buildings or tunnels.

- I also lost 3-4 minutes by having to stop for a bathroom break at one of the porta potties with a good line of runners at about mile 6 (yes I know I could had stopped behind the trees like many others did, but it was early in the race and there were too many girls around at that stage in the race :-)  The challenge here in addition to the loss of time was that I then had to rush to catch up with a couple of friends I was running with for about a 1/2 mile, which totally pushed my HR up from then onwards.

As Chris mentioned in his post, I will also be looking at my HR data in more detail to see what I could had done better and know that I'm done with big races for the year, I might finish reading my Maffetone book and try his plan.

Finally, Ernesto I'm totally ready to start talking Ironman 2012!!! I also do recommend the experience of completing a 1/2 Ironman tri and/or a Marathon to everyone in this group (more than positive that all of you who have not done them yet can easily do them with the proper training and Ernesto's good advice!)  Saludos to all!

Trying to catch a group, sprinting up a hill, or picking up the pace "because I feel great" have a negative effect that will show its ugly face in the late stages of the marathon/Ironman. Focus on fueling, relaxing and having a good "flow", but mostly keeping things inside the box. The box is a term used by many multiple Ironman finishers, and it means keeping within your own mental and physical efforts, isolating everything around you from affecting you pace/effort. As an example, many people races with others on the bike leg of Ironman and then find themselves walking with the same people they raced a few hours before.

As for your Ironman preparation, I don't want you to start thinking about "I'm training for an Ironman" until much later. Specific Ironman conditioning starts 18-20 weeks before the event, so forget about it for now. Actually you should mark your calendar with the July 20th, 2012 as the official start date of your IM Cozumel training.

This doesn't mean you're not doing anything before, you should start building a HUGE aerobic base prior to that and a lot of speed in the next couple of months. For now, focus on recovery and take a mental break from the pressure. Although I know your enthusiasm level is pretty high for the Ironman.