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2010-03-09 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
bryancd - 2010-03-08 6:12 PM
PennState - 2010-03-08 3:12 PM I have a few thoughts... If you plan on riding over 6 hours... you should ride a triple in front. Yes I'm dead serious. If you plan on 5:40-6 hours, consider a 12-27. If you plan on 5:20-5:40, then 12-25 If you are under 5:20... yes, 11-23 is fine. Improper gearing is a huge problem at LP. If you have a big problem with the idea of a triple, then consider a compact crank and 12-27... but I'd still go with the triple.
That's all probably good advice. I disagree with Dan's post earlier. I train and race with a 11-23 and have never wanted for more hill climbing gearing even on the biggest hills around here which are steeper than anything on the IMLP course. For a strong cyclist, you will want that 11 for descending.


Knowing the 2005 LP winner – 4:43 bike split, 2007 LP winner - 5:17 bike split and 2009 4th place – 5:03 bike split, I know for a fact these guys raced with at least a 11-25, 12-25 or even short cranks 165.5 mm with 12-25 even though when they train they will usually use a 11-23. It is not a matter of how strong or not they are (all are 4.7 plus w/kg) but about having the adequate gearing to maintain sustainable power over the race to go as fast as they can while saving enough for great runs.

 

It is not like the LP course has fierce steep climbs but it just has steady climbing with a few bites that can wear out the legs. If the optimal cadence/torque for them is 'x' and having an extra gears allows them to achieve that while riding comfortable then is not a big deal having an extra gear; it is more like an “insurance”. Beyond the descend to Keane, I doubt even strong riders will gear out anywhere on the course with a 12-25 and on the descend you pretty much can just tuck in and enjoy the free ride for 10 miles which will allow you to go faster anyway than having  and 11. Based on those 3 guys I was planning to ride 165.5 cranks with a 11-25 and when we go to train to LP in June I am going to tell my guys to try a 12-25 or 12-27 and see how it ‘feels’ for them specially on the 2nd loop.

 

Anyway, as with everything I think gearing selection is more a function of personal preference and the terrain rather than how fast you’ll go. Though I agree with Fred, slower riders should definitely consider proper gearing and don't be affraid to have extra gears.



2010-03-09 11:12 AM
in reply to: #2716245

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
gopennstate - 2010-03-09 10:18 AM
PennState - 2010-03-08 5:17 PMWhich brings me to my next topic of discussion... gearing and bikes...1. Tell me what your gearing is and what you expect/hope to ride the course in?2. What bike/wheels you are riding?For me:1. 12-25 with a standard crank (53/39). I hope to ride 5:20.2. I am riding a Cannondale Slice with Zipp 404s.
Compact. Though triples are my favorite! I will ride whatever my fitness is that day! 5:30, great! 6:00, great! 6:30, great! 7:00, great! 7:30, great! 8:00, great! 8:30, ouch, too much saddle time! My bike is a Felt. Can't remember what the wheels are...probably not the response of someone riding 5:30!

unless you get on your bike and start riding outdoors you better bring a lot of butt lube
2010-03-09 12:33 PM
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2010-03-09 12:36 PM
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2010-03-09 6:44 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
JorgeM - 2010-03-09 12:12 PM
gopennstate - 2010-03-09 10:18 AM
PennState - 2010-03-08 5:17 PMWhich brings me to my next topic of discussion... gearing and bikes...1. Tell me what your gearing is and what you expect/hope to ride the course in?2. What bike/wheels you are riding?For me:1. 12-25 with a standard crank (53/39). I hope to ride 5:20.2. I am riding a Cannondale Slice with Zipp 404s.
Compact. Though triples are my favorite! I will ride whatever my fitness is that day! 5:30, great! 6:00, great! 6:30, great! 7:00, great! 7:30, great! 8:00, great! 8:30, ouch, too much saddle time! My bike is a Felt. Can't remember what the wheels are...probably not the response of someone riding 5:30!

unless you get on your bike and start riding outdoors you better bring a lot of butt lube
welllllllll, tenemos problemas por que hoy esta 70 y cloudy y there was no was I was riding outside....way too fria! Above 70 con el sol y I'll go!
2010-03-09 7:37 PM
in reply to: #2337428

Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

Fred I was going too comment on this earlier.  It is kind of what I did/do versa what you posted and how it will change this year.

 

I’ll start with #1 and #2

 

PennState

1. Know your nutrition plnan, but as a general rule don't have a bunch of bottles filled up with liquids at the start... 1 or maybe 2 at most as there is a lot of early climbing and there is little bbenefit to doing this with extra weight.

2. Ride out of town starts a bit downhill, but then has a series of 4 or so climbs and false flats. This is where I MUST RIDE EASY. The fans will be cheering and I will feel good after a great swim (positive thinking)... there will be a temptation to go hard. As Paul said, pick an easy gear, and then go one easier for these hills!!! SMALL CHAIN RING!!! Hydrate really well here as the swim will have taken a lot out of me by then.

 

 

I think knowing your nutrition plan and following it is critical.  This is part of all my long training rides.  I am constantly checking it so I know what’s good in different conditions.  I think a very important aspect is knowing how your body reacts to the conditions and being prepared to change or alter your nutrition accordingly.  I think this comes with experience more so.  A good test bed for your bike nutrition plan is century ride (not metric century), if you are planning on any before LP.  Test different things, i.e., food, gu or all liquid.  I use food and liquid nutrition (Hammer Perpetuem) for my main carbs.  I also use gu and shot blocks for electrolytes.  On long training rides I’ll take 4 bottles usually 22oz or 24oz and on hot days two of those bottles are Zefal Magnums 33oz.  I drink a lot of water on the bike. 

 

I started LP 09’ with 2 bottles; a 16oz and a 24oz.  My plan was to do a remix of my Perpetuem in the 24oz on the second lap.  I didn’t like doing that so that will be changed in 2010.  I finished the 16oz bottle before I got to the decent and picked up a course water bottle at the first aid station.  The course water bottle fit loosely in my handle bar cage and it needed attention not to pop out.  This was a little added stress doing 50mph down the Keene decent. 

 

Coming out of town I was moving; no small chain ring for me.  My gearing was like 53 and 15-17 until I hit the first little hills.  I averaged 22.7mph on the 1st loop and 21.3mph on the 2nd loop between town and the Keene decent.  I averaged 90 RPM’s for the whole course.  The gearing I decided to go with for the LP bike course was 53/39 chain rings and the rear cassette was 12-25 (12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25).  The thing for me was going higher RPM’s 95+ on the flats to flush out the legs.  For the climbing I just attack hills.   I’m usually up and down in the saddle.  It’s just my style of climbing and certainly suits me.  Then again boys and girls this is what I did. 



2010-03-09 7:39 PM
in reply to: #2717437

Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
gopennstate - 2010-03-09 7:44 PM
JorgeM - 2010-03-09 12:12 PM
gopennstate - 2010-03-09 10:18 AM
PennState - 2010-03-08 5:17 PMWhich brings me to my next topic of discussion... gearing and bikes...1. Tell me what your gearing is and what you expect/hope to ride the course in?2. What bike/wheels you are riding?For me:1. 12-25 with a standard crank (53/39). I hope to ride 5:20.2. I am riding a Cannondale Slice with Zipp 404s.
Compact. Though triples are my favorite! I will ride whatever my fitness is that day! 5:30, great! 6:00, great! 6:30, great! 7:00, great! 7:30, great! 8:00, great! 8:30, ouch, too much saddle time! My bike is a Felt. Can't remember what the wheels are...probably not the response of someone riding 5:30!

unless you get on your bike and start riding outdoors you better bring a lot of butt lube
welllllllll, tenemos problemas por que hoy esta 70 y cloudy y there was no was I was riding outside....way too fria! Above 70 con el sol y I'll go!


How much have you been drinking?  Wink
2010-03-09 8:04 PM
in reply to: #2713056

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
WittyCityGirl - 2010-03-07 7:36 PM

tasr - 2010-03-07 9:32 AMThanks Sara!  This is a new adventure for me and a completely 180 as far as career fields.  Although I am in no way new to the aquatics field, I have been in and out of all different aquatic positions since the early 80’.  After all I was born under a water sign. 


What kind of facility is it? What kind of programming do you have to do? Are you directly responsible for the things like chlorine levels and pH? (I'm a Cancer, so I can't stay out of the water for long! I start twitching if I'm dry for too long!) =p



Sara it is a Health and Fitness center.  The pool is 8 lanes x 25 yards and approximately 160,500 gallons of water.  Our aquatics programming consists of aquatic fitness classes, Learn to swim classes, Tri swim clinic, Physical therapy.  We have two swim teams, a master swim program and a lot of Triathlete that get together to swim.

 

Yes among; budgeting, training, scheduling of staff and programming, I am responsible for the pool and Jacuzzi chemistry.  I do have a pool operator that is his primary responsibility but I do it as well. 

2010-03-09 8:36 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
tasr - 2010-03-09 9:04 PM 

Sara it is a Health and Fitness center.  The pool is 8 lanes x 25 yards and approximately 160,500 gallons of water.  Our aquatics programming consists of aquatic fitness classes, Learn to swim classes, Tri swim clinic, Physical therapy.  We have two swim teams, a master swim program and a lot of Triathlete that get together to swim.



Eight lanes? I'm drooling!!!  Sounds like a busy facility!  Do you have to keep that water on the warm side because they do PT there??  It was a nightmare for us to do "rusty hinges" classes for seniors and lap swimming in the same pool.  83* was too cold for the oldies and too warm for the fasties. 
2010-03-09 9:42 PM
in reply to: #2337428

Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

Good News/Bad News

The Good - Ortho doc say 4-6 weeks without running BUT I am able to swim and bike to my heart's content....as long as there is no pain.  Sweet.

The Bad - Rowena (the wife) was tasked with a deployment to Chile.  Everything has been approved so she is now on standby for the orders.  These orders could come as soon as Friday or never.  We hope the orders come through since these orders to Chile are much much safer than the Afghanistan orders that come down every few months. 

This will definitely be an awesome challenge:  Home alone with three kids ages 5, 4, and 3, grad school classes, 25 fifth graders to teach, and that little race in July. 

At least I won't be bored!

2010-03-10 5:06 AM
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2010-03-10 5:14 AM
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2010-03-10 6:25 AM
in reply to: #2337428

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

Hey Sara,
You cracked me up with your time estimate ("sub-8:00 on the bike! woohoo!") and I gotta say I will probably be swimming/biking/running next to you the whole time... Let's hope we have that two hours of "wiggle room" and even beat it. Yeah! I was talking to a multiple-Ironman the other day and told him I'd be thrilled if I finished before dark--it would certainly exceed my expectations. Since this is my first, I mainly want to finish A) before the cutoff, B) happy, and C) without having to go to the medical tent.

I will definitely have a triple chainring since my trusty road bike is the only bike I have. See you out there on the course!

Kelly

2010-03-10 6:53 AM
in reply to: #2337428

Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread

Papson, glad to hear you can still Swim and Bike.  You definitely have a full schedule from now till July!!

Question: How are the GE bottles given out on the course?  Are they in opened squeeze bottles or regular bottles with screw on tops? 

2010-03-10 7:44 AM
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2010-03-10 7:45 AM
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2010-03-10 8:13 AM
in reply to: #2337428

Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Well I feel like it's been way too long since I checked in here.  Life is a bit crazy at the moment, but thhat doesn't mean I'm not gonna be diving into mirror lake in July.

Tasr started to do this above, and I apologize if I missed it, but I would love to hear what people are planning to change from the last time they did this race.  If it was already discussed, just tell me to go to my room and be quiet.

For me - I plan to not crash during training and miss the race
I plan to not be 220 pounds like I was last July
I plan to shock you all, but not with gory pictures of x-rays and open wounds.

I may have a housing announcement in a bit... gotta figure out some things first on the homefront I may be looking to sublet a few beds from the [now] oversized house we rented.
2010-03-10 8:45 AM
in reply to: #2717871

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
PennState - 2010-03-10 6:14 AM I should have added that if you are into a certain type of nutrition like perpetuum? Or whatever, that you can leave an extra bottle in bike special needs which is at the end of the first loop. I really believe that over weighted down bikes are common because of the personality of triathletes... We tend to be type A go getters who want to prepare for ANY AND ALL POSSIBLE SCENARIOS THAT COULD ARISE ON RACE DAY!!! I understand that all too well, but take it from someone who's done this course twice and ridden it many other times. The BEST plan IMHO is to have a simple plan that does not require you weighing down your bike too much and is adaptable if conditions change. I recommend using whats on the course for nutrition. Please discuss


This is really good advice, even if you're not the fastest biker on the course you'll really appreciate the simplicity of not having to plan, pack and carry so much stuff. I trained with GE as my primary fuel/fluid source last year from April to September so I was able to 100% live off the course on race day. I had an aero bottle and one back-up bottle to refill the aero, which I honestly wouldn't have needed had it not been such a hot day (IMWI, not IMLP). I carried one flask of Hammer Gel in my bento, two tubes and 3 CO2s. I picked up a new flask of Hammer at Special Needs and one Luna Bar in case I was feeling bored with liquid, but they have bananas and bars on the course so I didn't even need that, it was more a taste/preference thing.

I carried nothing whatsoever on the run. Ironman courses have so much support that I felt the aid stations were coming faster than I even needed them!
2010-03-10 10:55 AM
in reply to: #2717867

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
PennState - 2010-03-10 5:06 AM

Good review James... you had a faster pace coming out of town to keene than I did.

I see plus of very expensive and very LIGHTWEIGHT bikes that unfortunately have 4 bottles of nutrition, a bento box filled with half a dozen gelatin and 3 inner tubes along with a pump and large repair kit.

It just seems silly to weigh yourself down so much for the hills.

What I would suggest is:
1.1-2 bottles of liquid nutrition.
2. 1 with a max of 2 inner tubes.
3. Small repair kit with C02 inflator.
4. No more than 2 pieces of solid nutrition.

Yes I know not everyone cares about their bike time as much as I do... but I think its more than this. What I believe is that your marathon experience will be much more fun if you make your bike experience that much easier.

Also they have powerbar gels, bananas and all the GE and water you could ever need on the course.
When you say 1-2 bottles are you including your aerobar drink container? If so, are you suggesting get rid of the tails and stuff your spare in your shirt type of thing? Very interesting. If I am riding tubies any suggestions there? I was thinking of keeping one spare on me and also a bottle of Vittoria Pit Stop with an inflator and one cartridge. Too much? I am interested in the weight thing as well only because I made a conscious effort the past 6 months and am now exactly 10lbs lighter today than I was on race day in 2008. My new bike is also 4lbs lighter. I don't want to weigh it down anymore than necessary. I am not going to blow anyone away, that is for sure, but always looking to do my best. Thanks for any and all advice!

Edited by Monty 2010-03-10 11:06 AM
2010-03-10 11:05 AM
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2010-03-10 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
PennState - 2010-03-10 11:05 AM

What I ran last year was 1 bottle on the frame with carbopro, and one bottle on the aerobars (a normal bottle carrier with zip ties. No more.

Tubbies... I would have 1 spare and the pit stop is fine. Don't use pit stop with clinchers though!... only tubbies. Bryancd used tubbies... you might pm him for advice on what he did, as I've never used them.
So you think ditching the tail is a good idea if possible. Thanks!


2010-03-10 11:09 AM
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2010-03-10 11:12 AM
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2010-03-10 11:57 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
Monty - 2010-03-10 11:55 AM


When you say 1-2 bottles are you including your aerobar drink container? If so, are you suggesting get rid of the tails and stuff your spare in your shirt type of thing? Very interesting. If I am riding tubies any suggestions there? I was thinking of keeping one spare on me and also a bottle of Vittoria Pit Stop with an inflator and one cartridge. Too much? I am interested in the weight thing as well only because I made a conscious effort the past 6 months and am now exactly 10lbs lighter today than I was on race day in 2008. My new bike is also 4lbs lighter. I don't want to weigh it down anymore than necessary. I am not going to blow anyone away, that is for sure, but always looking to do my best. Thanks for any and all advice!



I’ll be riding Zipps 808 tubular’s w/disk cover on the back.
 
This is what I plan to pack for my wheels
 
1 Spare tubular tire
1 Can Vittoria Pit Stop
1 Co2 inflator
1 Co2 cartridge 16gr
1 razor blade
 
My special needs bag will have
1 Spare tubular tire
1 Can Vittoria Pit Stop
1 Co2 inflator
2 Co2 cartridges 16gr
2010-03-10 12:11 PM
in reply to: #2718810

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Subject: RE: Ironman USA Lake Placid : Official Thread
tasr - 2010-03-10 11:57 AM

Monty - 2010-03-10 11:55 AM


When you say 1-2 bottles are you including your aerobar drink container? If so, are you suggesting get rid of the tails and stuff your spare in your shirt type of thing? Very interesting. If I am riding tubies any suggestions there? I was thinking of keeping one spare on me and also a bottle of Vittoria Pit Stop with an inflator and one cartridge. Too much? I am interested in the weight thing as well only because I made a conscious effort the past 6 months and am now exactly 10lbs lighter today than I was on race day in 2008. My new bike is also 4lbs lighter. I don't want to weigh it down anymore than necessary. I am not going to blow anyone away, that is for sure, but always looking to do my best. Thanks for any and all advice!



I’ll be riding Zipps 808 tubular’s w/disk cover on the back.
 
This is what I plan to pack for my wheels
 
1 Spare tubular tire
1 Can Vittoria Pit Stop
1 Co2 inflator
1 Co2 cartridge 16gr
1 razor blade
 
My special needs bag will have
1 Spare tubular tire
1 Can Vittoria Pit Stop
1 Co2 inflator
2 Co2 cartridges 16gr
James - how do you pack this...tail...just duct tape it, back shirt pocket? Thanks!
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