Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 66)

Todd, it really sounds like you've put everything together nicely for your HIM - lie you said peakign at just the right time.  And 235 watts for an hour on thebike is nothing to shrug off, those are good numbers.  As to your triple yesterday, I likely would have packed it in at some point and accepted that the Gods weren't on my side.  Nice job sticking with it - and you'll have hopefully exercised all your bad karma before race day.

Rusty - nice run.  Your "cruise" pace is hopefully just a tad slower than my goal pace in May for the HM.

Kathy - that's a super amount of volume for the week.  Glad you enjoyed it, and I'm sure you're going to reap the benefits from it.

As for me, after 3 weeks of off training due to work and travel, I put in my biggest volume week of the year.  Being able to run outside and then ride outside the following day were the big contributors, and I thouroughly enjoyed getting on the bike outside after being in the basement for the past 3.5 months.

Congrats on the run!

Totally agree, getting outside a few times so far has been awesome...but it's making going back inside that much worse   I'm a wuss and have some bad time management/getting out of bed/afraid of the cold issues that make it tough to get outside all the time.  Trying to convince the fiancee to move out of the city, so biking from my front door is a possibility, instead of wasting over an hour packing/unpacking the car and driving somewhere to bike.

So here's my question (not picking on you Todd) - what value do each of you place on the type of triple brick that Todd has just completed?  Does it have a lot of value, not as much as some believe - do you follow this type of training philosophy, etc?

So my friend Calimavs was training for Vineman last year at her tri club out of San Francisco did it on the Vineman course as a tune up to the race. I thought it sounded interesting and I knew I would do it sometime.

I didn't really know what to expect or what the value of it would be for me beyond the volume of training but I really think it was very valuable. The main thing that I got out of it was the mental toughness element. With a flat tire, bike computers falling off and a knee that was hurting the whole run, I just kept pressing forward and trying to keep up a decent pace for me.

I've been reading Be Iron Fit and one of the big thing he stresses is that things won't always go as you plan. I saw that first hand this year at IMAZ. Everyone expected it to be warm and beautiful and it was cold and rainy with hail as some points. You could see it suck the life out of some people on the course.

I could feel as the 4 hours went by that it was getting tougher and that I had to keep fueling myself and pushing myself to keep up a certain pace. I also got to work a little on my transitions and I found out that my spare tube was the wrong valve stem size.

I think for some people that have a high level of training it may not have as much value but doing brick after brick was a good thing for me. Running on tired legs after one hour probably wouldn't change if I did one after a 3 hour bike ride.

I even did some hill repeats on the 2nd hour of the bike to put a little extra hurt on myself. I could feel that it tired my legs out for the last half of the training.

If this isn't for anybody else, that's ok. I think it was a good day of training for me and really helped me mentally prepare for 6+ hours out on the course. 13+ hours of training this week and then spring break week and then taper week. It will be here before I know it.

I think there's a million+1 ways to skin the long course cat.  I don't think triple brick, no brick, etc., makes much difference.  If it helps you mentally relax, be confident, etc., then it's probably worthwhile.

My buddy is a pretty strong IMer and he did a crazy 5 mi/56mi/5mi/56mi/6mi "brick" last year.  His reasoning was that it's what he did as a confidence builder for his first IM, so why not do it again!  Fortunately I was injured and had a good excuse for not joining him in the insanity.  

That's an interesting topic Neil.  What are your thoughts?  Looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say.  (Would be interesting to hear what people are planning/doing if they're working towards their first race.)

Like you suggest, IME the keys aren't specific workouts, but the bigger picture.  (And I can't say much about what it takes to prepare well for the IM swim!)

For the bike, I've had good success with averaging ~120-140 miles a week for ~8 wks, then a big push in volume 3-4 weeks out from IM, and finally a volume taper for the two weeks pre-IM.  I also like to include FTPish intervals in those two weeks of taper to maintain and sharpen while reducing volume.  Also, all summer I push very hard on my weekly long rides, trying to finish each with drained legs.  This year I'm planning to reduce the length of some of my long rides and add more intensity during the week.

I haven't hit a good IM run yet, but I think the keys are 'simple': well-executed bike+nutrition and TOUGH legs. There is no need to train fast to do well in the IM marathon.  Toughness >> speed.  The tricky part is building toughness without getting injured.

Well I have no experience at either HIM or IM distances so I'm just kind of winging it. I was on the BT HIM plan but the volume was very low for what I thought I should be at. I still have the BT plan incorporated into my training log but I go in every week and change almost everything. The longest bike on the plan was 2+ hours and I knew I wanted to do the 56 miles at least 5 times before the race. I also want to be doing the 1900 yds a lot in the swim but it had 1 hr and 1:15 swims in there. I don't think I really need that much swim.

The main things that I wanted to get nailed down was nutrition, hydration and mental toughness. I have been a bit of a quiter in my life and when things go wrong, I shut down. I have learned on my long runs that there are times when your body will tell you 8,000 ways why you should stop running but if you can make it a few more minutes, you'll be feeling better.

I'm also going to have the confidence going in to know that I can swim the distance, bike the distance and run the distance because I have already done them. I'm just going to have to suffer for a few more hours on race day more than I have done in training.

For me, the thing that makes the 4 hour training days bearable is doing something new and fresh. If I did the same thing every time I would get bored and I wouldn't get out of it what I want to. Since I'm new to this, I look to see what others are doing and try to incorporate some of that into my training.

I'm not going to win this HIM or podium. I might even come in close to last but I think I'm prepared for the distance. As the years go by, I should get faster and more efficient but I'm not too worried about that right now. I'm just trying to finish and do the best I can.

I know there are people of all levels in this group and what works for competitive people probably wouldn't work for me. Maybe next year I'll get a coach that can take me to the next level but for now, I'm just winging it.

Todd - I think you can give yourself some credit.  You really seem to have progressed since this group formed and I think you'll do really well come race day - might even surprise yourself.

Rob - my thoughts to my own question.  Not really sure, since I've done the HIM distance just once, and similar to Todd I winged it.  I was probably a bit short on my run volume leading up to the race, and I hadn't anticipated how hilly the run was, so this year I started prepping 9 months in advance by trying to get back my run legs.  I'll aim for 3-4 runs, 2 with intensity, 1 easy tempo, 1 long easy (mixed with some tempo effort).

As for the bike, I'm a believer in going longer than race distance in training (at leat at the 70.3 distance).  I raced a hilly course last time, and will again this time, and put in as much time climbing hills as I could, but this time I'll look to have a greater level of intensity on the long rides.  Try to dial back the effort a bit on the hills and put out more effort on the flats.  And like I said, I plan to ride further this time.  I only went over race distance on a couple of rides last time, and I think that was a mistake.  I'm a slow swimmer so I need to consider that I'll have been "racing" for 40+ minutes before I even get to my bike.

Swim a good amount with some intensity (see a theme here), and add in some long OWS followed by a ride.  My downfall is that I'm usually tierd after the swim, regardless of the distance, and the swim portion sets the whole race up.  If yuo don't have the fitness in this area your race is going to be hurt - and I'm guilty of that a number of times at shorter distances and dont want that mistake this year.

In summary - intensity during the week for S/B/R.  Weekends when I go longer, then do more than the "required" distances, and push the pace at least some of the time (less so on the run), so that race day feels like I'm on cruise control - at least in my head. 

For what it's worth, I prefer to do something the day before a race, otherwise I just come out a bit flat for the race.  Swim a bit at the race venue if possible, and bang off a few km running.  Nothing strenuos that day, just prepping the body for the next day.

WHile I think a coach would help most of us improve, I really enjoy 'wining it'.  I don't think I'd enjoy a program that is too structured - too many unpredictable elements in my life.  I think I could do well with a coach that gave me a few key workouts to do each week (or even every two weeks) with a rough order in which they should be done.

For those of you that are coached (I forget who, besides Fred), how do your coaches operate?  Do you have a specific structure to follow, or is it pretty flexible?

I'm wearing a Nineteen Pipeline - their entry level suit.  There isn't as much flexibility in the shoulders as some of the higher end suits, although it's still fine, but the rubber is a bit thicker so it helps a sinker like myself.

I actually think I would work really well with a structured coaching plan, but just don't have the money to afford a coach.  Also, I'm not really big on the BT plans - too much zone 2, zone 2, zone 2 - for my liking, and I want something catered to power/hr and pace/hr. 

So, I'm looking at Jorge's semi-personalized plan.  You basically fill out the registration, have a conversation with him, and he'll set you up with your first 4 week block plan.  It's a cookie cutter program, but semi-individualized since it's geared towards your goals/strengths/weaknesses.  After 3 weeks, you followup and you get your next 4 week block that is semi-based on what you've just done and whether your focus needs to transition, stay the same, etc.

This may work well for you Rob, because he states explicitly that the plans will not be tailored to the individual (only at a semi level), and you would be responsible for tweaking the plan, changing/dropping workouts, etc.  You also get access to a private BT forum to ask any questions you want.

My HIM isn't until Sept, and I'm following a HM plan at the moment.  End of April I'm planning to transition to his 20 week HIM plan.

I like Jorge's approach quite a bit.  We have two triathlon coaches locally, and both have started coming around to using the kinds of methods Jorge has been promoting here on BT for some time (training by power, vo2+FTP ints, run by pace rather than HR, etc.).

I've already decided to go solo this year, but may consider coaching input next season.