Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 66)

Sounds like a great swim.  How did you feel afterward?  Like you were pretty happy you took the time to get the WO completed or too fatigued to want to do anything tomorrow?

I think you can ride the bike like you stated; Use the trainer for 2-3 rides and then outside for the long ride.  I also think it would work well to do the long Jorge ride outside too.  The long ride isn't nearly as physically demanding as the short intense rides and you really shouldn't have a big problem staying on target for these.

For your last question:

Being strong on the bike will help your run.  That much is certain.  However, I don't think you can discount how much longer the race will be if you are suffering through half of the marathon at the end.  I don't mean from a time perspective either.  Psychologically you will likely begin to ask yourself questions of defeat sooner and rationalize giving up easier the less you train to run.  IM is such a long race that you won't escape these thought entirely but can you keep them at bay and stay in the race with an absolute minimum of run training?  You know your mental capabilities so only you can truly answer that question.

I went back and check your 70.3 race because I remembered you suffered on the run for that one.  With that race in mind and the training you put forth prior to that race, could you suffer twice as long and not throw in the towel?  In your race report you said you weren't ready for that distance.  That statement seems to point to a lack of training on something (bike or run) that influenced such a struggle on the run.  I also remembered, and check from the comments from other BT'ers, that it was pretty hot and that too would have influenced your suffering, as well as the nutrition that seemed to be off kilter throughout the race.

In summary;  I would not skimp on the run training!  I think there is a minimal amount of training you can do and so I have pushed the "red flag alert" button.  Try to find a plan to follow and stick with it to the letter and exceed it a little bit if you can.  BT has a free "Beginner Ironman 20 weeks" plan that I have skimmed across the surface of my mind, I would suggest doing something like that.

I have also counted the weeks until B2B and you have 35 weeks until race day.  That would allow you to do the BT plan 1.75 times if you started this week.  You could complete the plan the first time and roll back into the plan at week 5 and start again.  This would allow you to build a pretty solid base and hold it and even build a little bit of a stronger base leading up to B2B.  It would also somewhat minimize the long weeks.  There would absolutely be some long weeks, but that is absolutely inevitable anyway.

Here is the BT plan

Will I agree with what Dirk is saying. I have talked with my friend who drew up my IM plan for me which he has used successfully with a lot of lessons learned. I think it will be largely based on running 3 times a week. Could be more but could be less too. My plan is to focus on bike first, swim second and run last. I feel my biggest strength is my run so I am least worried about that. Not to discount the run but if I'm tired or need to cut back anywhere it will be the run. The IM run is really about time on your feet and not run like a marathon would be as I am sure you are aware. I am not suggesting you do the same but if you are strong with your swimming then maybe you might want to focus on bike first, run second and swim last. Like Dirk said the bike will definitely help your run and the most important thing to do is pick a plan, follow it and trust it.

Alright another test last night, the 5 minute FTP test. Now I have the results from the first one but I don't think I recorded the week 7 test. I think I grouped all the results of that workout in the main set so I don't really have the data for the 5 minutes test but from week 1 to week 11 there is significant improvement:

First 5 minute test avg pwr 246 max pwr 314 - Week 1

Third 5 minute test avg pwr 280, max pwr 366 - Week 11

Last night I think I did a much better job of building my effort during the test. I probably could have gone a little harder but I really didn't want to blow up in the middle of the test. I'm very happy with the progress I am making and feel like the bike will be a strength for me this year. This is awesome, I'm feeling good about the bike and the run and am not worried about that at all. The swim is whole another story but I can't wait to get outside and start attacking the hills on the north shore of Long Island this spring instead of the hills attacking me!

Hospice Half Marathon time from this morning -- 2:06ish (I didn't even look at the clock).

I am going to vent to you all, since nobody else will understand my frustrations. I started slow and at mile 4, my IT band got tight and I was MAD, MAD, MAD. I kept my slow pace and got passed by what felt like everyone on the darn course. I wanted to quit at mile 6, because who really wants to run through 9 miles of pain....., but, then I said to myself.... "Self, you are going to experience far more discomfort than this if you do a HIM.... so, do you really want to start being a quitter now?" Which I of course replied no. I also knew that my knee would not hurt more than it currently hurt. Around mile 8, on a decline, I stomped hard on the ground and really felt the pain in my knee and almost cried.

I kept my pace and was still passed by another 5 people on the last three miles. I turned my GPS off at mile 6 because I knew there would be no negative split today. I also realized I have run 4 half marathons and none of them have been good runs. ONe day, I am going to have a great run and blow my time out of the water.

Thank you for letting me vent. I have officially decided to withdraw from the Albany HM in two weeks. It will be the same kind of run as today.

On a positive note, these are the things I taken away today:

-I hydrated the way I train - I wore my goofy hydration belt and alternated between water and a diluted Endurance drink.

-I was able to push myself through 9 miles of pain. Legitimate pain. I am quite proud of myself for that.

-Though my right knee hurts, I finished with energy and felt like I could probably do an hour long swim or so, which to me is an indicator of my fitness base progression. Even amidst the pain, feeling this strong at the finish in all other ways has led to the idea of doing an actual full marathon (ohh great, how I like to torture myself)!

-I am walking, took some Ibuprofen, my knee is sore, but not debilitating.

-I plan on scaling back the long distance runs and will be increasing the biking over the coming weeks, bring it on Jorge!

Jen congrats on finishing the HM today especially under those circumstances. I tend to think having a great race is not always about us finishing with PR's or getting on the podium but having to endure hardship during a race and still be able to perservere and push through it and finish. Those races define who we are and you should be very proud of your effort today and I can tell you all the Junkies are. I think it's great for us to have a few of these races because these are the ones that you can look back on when you are in a similiar situation and you draw strength from it. I think you proved to yourself to today that you can endure the pain and suffering that typically come along from doing endurance sports. That is a great thing to be able to do. I'm sorry the HM didn't go your way today but you definitely put forth a great effort.

I think I might actually have put a decent week of training together this week. I did my long run today and it was not easy. I took it at a easy pace but I just felt I didn't really have much today. I was able to put up 8.7 miles and I did it in the snow. It was snowing for most of the run and it was pretty cool to run in that today but it was very windy so that was slowing me down as well.

I felt like I was running in slow motion and doing 12 minute miles but actually I was running around 10:45 minute miles which was surprising to me. I did 4 loops around the hood and I really didn't think I'd be able to do 2 to be honest but I forced myself to do the 4 loops. I just have not been running that much and knew I needed to get the miles in. Plus it is always good mental toughness training when you push yourself to do something you don't want to do.

The other thing I did today was purchase a treadmill. Sports Authority was having a killer sale on them and I picked up the Proform Performance 600C treadmill for half price. Since getting the dog it has been so hard to try and get my workouts in consistently like I was doing before especially during lunch. Having the treadmill will give me more flexability and I can do my workouts in the evening. I really don't like running at night all that much and it'll be safer to do it indoors until we start getting some more daylight later. Plus the bike/run bricks will be much easier to do during the week. Now I hope it doesn't take two weeks to get it since I ordered it online.

I think it's likely a good idea that you drop out of the Albany HM.  I think you have aggravated your IT band a little more than it should tolerate and stepping back will help you mend.  I suggest you take a day or so with no running, stretch your IT, maybe get a massage (deep tissue w/IT focus) and then start running shorter and more frequent.  Try the approach similar to the 3-2-1 that Warren likes but you need only to get 4 runs in if you like.

If you're not familiar with 3-2-1, it is a method of running that keep everything easy and you target 6 runs per week........3 short runs, 2 medium distance and 1 long run.  If I recall correctly the 5 short or medium distance runs total your 1 long run distance.  So, if you want to run a 10 miler it might look something like this:

1. 1 miles
2. 3 Miles
3. 1 Mile
4. 5 Miles
5. 1 Mile
6. 10 Miles

I know this adds up to 11 miles for the short and medium runs but you should get the targeted idea.  This can be adapted in all sorts of ways.  I use a similar way of thinking but I am only running 4 times a week right now, but I am planning on adding a 5th run beginning the last week of February.  That run will only be 2-3 miles and may not go any farther than that before my marathon.  My week coming up will be:

1. Sun. 5 miles
2. Tues. 8 miles
3. Wed. 4 miles
4. Fri. 16-17 miles

Anyway, I don't think you should plan on any 10 mile runs for a little bit.  Allow the inflammation and irritation of your IT band to calm down before doing anything long.  Keep all of your runs in a zone that you've not had ANY trouble with your IT.  If you have been able to run no more than 5 miles without any problem than let that be your longest distance run.  From there you can mingle in anything shorter to keep your running legs going.

Now about your race.  Tony said it well; you've given yourself some pretty tough races that have been close together.  You probably haven't allowed much time for recovery since they have been back to back (basically).  You've proven you've got the guts to be a Junkie, that's for certain!  Congrats on sticking through all of the arduous pain and keeping a strong spirit.  Your tenacity will pay off as you are able to dial yourself in and learn to train a little better.  3 HM's in 1 1/2 months is an outstanding commitment.

Tony,

Jeff is really tolerant of treadmills but I can't stand them.  I'll run in just about any kind of weather to stay off of the blasted dreadmill.  If you are able to pull of some long runs on the hamster wheel good luck.

__________________

Well my recovery week is over and it's back to the big running weeks for 3 more weeks.  This week will be a 16-17 mile long run followed by 18 and then my first 20 miler before heading back into a recovery week on March 10.  that will leave me with one last building cycle before a 1.5 week taper before Boston.  My last long runs will be 20, 22 and 20-22 for the last one. 

My biggest mileage week will be 43-45 miles unless I feel more secure about my foot.  That high mileage week will be 10 miles shorter than I capped at for my last marathon.  I was really wanting to get a couple of 60 mile weeks this time but it's just not working out.  If I do another marathon sometime I'll get my training done on a better schedule and without an injury to nurse if I don't have too.

Dirk I totally agree with you, I'd rather do all my runs outdoors but it's just been tough for me to do that. This will help get me running some more plus any work on the treadmill and trainer helps build mental toughness and I figure I need as much of that as I can get.

I'm also glad to see that you have not been having issues with your foot and you've been able to increase your mileage in your training for Boston especially with those upcoming long runs. It's funny I always dread those weeks when I know I have an 18 to 22 mile run but then I find when I do them they usually wind up being pretty good runs. I think those carry the most weight because I find they give me confidence going into the marathon. Things are shaping up nicely for you now Dirk and maybe doing less mileage may work to your advantage in keeping you fresh while still allowing for you to have a great race.

HAHAHAHaaa.... I love the TERROR vs torture statement. Dirk - thanks for the last statement here. I plan on sticking with Jorge's plan 2x a week on the trainer and then getting out on the bike for a long session. At this point I am not taking Jorge on my outdoor ride as I will be concentrating on traffic and climbing hills nonstop. South Georgia has nothing but rolling hills.

Thank you! I am not planning on any 10 mile runs for a bit. I have not defined what a "bit" is yet. I like the look of the 3-2-1 (the 6 runs a week looks very appealing to me) and I plan on keeping my long run around 5/6 miles, but first I am going to give my knee a break for several days and then ease into a couple of short runs later this week. I am thinking about getting in the pool (Monday and Tuesday) and doing some long swims with a pull buoy so I don't aggravate my knee at all. 

Matt- Thank you. Is there any way you could e-mail the 3-2-1 image? The resolution is so small on the pic that it isn't readable. Also - is it an App on your phone?  Thanks!

Last week I actually sat in the sauna BEFORE one of my workouts.  Seriously, I probably looked like a weirdo since I was in my workout clothes. (This is nothing new however- the looking like a weirdo part.)   I wanted my body to warm up before I got started.  I feel like the temp at my gym is kept on the cool side, I'm always cold when I get upstairs (where the main workout floor is)!

So I completed my first Trainer Road workout today doing an 8 minute FTP test and the numbers sounds decent to me.

For starters I plugged a FTP number in the was my average watts from an indoor triathlon I raced almost a year ago.  This was the only time I had seen any kind of numbers for power during any of my rides.  I loved seeing the data last March but it was all pretty meaningless other than it looked good to me.  But why wouldn't they?  I hadn't seen them before.  So anyway, I plugged in the average from last March at 270 watts average over 20 minutes and planned to use that as my target.

I did the prescribed WU and wondered what things would look like as I got into the testing phase.  One of the things I liked about this was that it was a really informative way to watch things roll out.  There was always information coming up on the screen to tell me what was coming up and how to get the most out of the test.  It was a real help to make sure I didn't botch the test from the get go.

For my first 8 minutes (2-8 minute intervals for testing)I had a target of 311 watts that was related to my previously "established" FTP (270).  As I was rolling up to the test I felt that was going to be pretty low.  During one of the spin ups I was up to over 400 watts for several seconds, so I felt confident 311 would be low.  As the start of the first one came I was well over 311 right out of the gate.  I proceeded with caution since it had been some time since I had tested and I didn't want to blow up, so I held back slightly.  I produced 358 NP (normalized power) for the first 8 minutes.  I felt strained to say the least but I knew I could perform better for the second one.

I had 10 minutes to recover to get ready for the second interval and I took it very easy but not as easy as suggested.  The suggestion was to spin at 108 watts and I was at 130 watts but it felt really, really easy.  As I approached the jump off point for the second interval I decided I wanted to make sure I didn't have anything left at the end and began to mash.  I got to the halfway point and wondered if I would last for the last 4 minutes.  I was holding above 370 watts and approaching 380 much of the last 4 minutes.

The numbers and other information is below but I am still reading up on what all of it means.  But, I have to say this is some really interesting stuff.  And I really liked being able to see exactly what was going on as I rode.  I am also impressed by the normalized power number.  It's not a simple average of the watts I generated during the ride, but an average of what kind of work was "averaged" for the ride.

Dirk I'm no expert but I will say that your power numbers for the two eight minute test intervals are very impressive. If that is an avg of your power for those two eight minute intervals I'd say you nailed it.

It's great to hear you could get together with some old friends.  Were they old riding friends? 

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Edit:  I changed my FTP in my original power post above.  I simply copied and pasted the report from Trainer Road onto the post and didn't change any of the numbers.  I had used 270 as the baseline for the ride so I had something to gauge.

Anyway, my new FTP is 328.

Just a quick hi and I'm back....so sorry for ya'll...lol  I'm looking forward to going back and reading all I missed and it was a LOT.  Well I ahven't swam in over 2 weeks (1 week I was sick and the other I was out of town w/ no pool).  The motel had a pool but it was closed.  I did a lot of running and lifting though.  I'm going to try to swim today.

Tony it is COLD here, take your cold back...we do not want it here in FL.  It was 28 degrees yesterday and 29 today..bbbrrrr.

Welcome back Karl - thanks for brining the cold with you. I thought it would be a great morning to jump in the pool. Sounds like I am tough, but I'm not; the 84 degree indoor pool felt really good and there was steam coming off of it. Great swim considering I took it real easy on my knee. I swam 2,600 yards, a slightly farther distance than usual, so I will take it. I could feel the urge to kick half-way through so I did a little bit.

Dirk - I've read through your post and actually studied it. I am NO EXPERT either and really appreciate your short, but seriously in depth post. I find it interesting too and I am totally a nerd anyway! I'm impressed with the numbers and inspired to get in the saddle more.