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2013-02-18 8:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
KWDreamun - 2013-02-18 7:07 AM

Just a quick hi and I'm back....so sorry for ya'll...lol  I'm looking forward to going back and reading all I missed and it was a LOT.  Well I ahven't swam in over 2 weeks (1 week I was sick and the other I was out of town w/ no pool).  The motel had a pool but it was closed.  I did a lot of running and lifting though.  I'm going to try to swim today.

Tony it is COLD here, take your cold back...we do not want it here in FL.  It was 28 degrees yesterday and 29 today..bbbrrrr.

LOL, Welcome back Karl and I don't want it either. It's freezing up here too, very windy and cold yesterday and again today. No fun taking the dog out this morning standing around in the 19 degree cold, 5 degrees if you factor in the wind chill and the wind gusts of up to 40 mph. Can't wait for spring.



2013-02-18 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Karl, welcome back!

Well today I had a session with the new PT.  Perhaps I talked too much (as it's not like the PT office has a big staff), but I basically aired my concerns with the other PT and her style, etc.  Utlimately the other PT is a nice person, but I don't think she's what I should have for a PT... Anyway, so with the new PT he did a lot of focus on functional work and such, which frankly made me feel better... I still did feel that hamstring tension following the session, but at least after the first session with him, I feel like it's going in a better direction than all the rest of the sessions... the previous sessions were all basically "STRETCH"... it's like, I can stretch on my own- I'm not waking up early, spending money and time, just to be told to stretch (and paying money to stretch)... because I can (and will) do that on my own.  The new PT seemed to understand this, and he adjusted accordingly... which I felt with the other PT anything I said was just in one ear out the other... In my nonexpert opinion, she was just way too focused on stretching (in fact some of the things today's PT said about her notes confirmed this), when the primary cause of my issues is a structual abnormality.  And for the record, since this may seem like I'm opposed to stretching.. I do make stretching a part of my daily routine, it's just that I don't like the fact that I'm paying for something I can do on my own, and I wasn't feeling like it was getting to the root cause...

Today's PT also did say, we'll see how it goes after a few sessions, and if it still seems like we're not making progress after a few sessions, we'll talk about possibly referring to other specialists... so that also made me feel better as it's not like I'll keep aimlessly doing the same thing even with little results.

2013-02-18 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Hey all.

 

First I want to wish Warren Bayek a VERY Happy Birthday!!!

Last week Dina asked how my knee is.  It's doing pretty well.  It hurts when I ride but otherwise only hurts residually from that.  Running isn't bothering it.  The good news here is that when the kneecap isn't tracking right on the bike it can ALWAYS be solved by adjustment (unlike running where the solution to the adjustment problem is correcting a muscle imbalance).

I wore my other shoes on Saturday and it didn't begin bothering me until much later in the ride than usual.  I have already tried different seat positions so I am going to conclude this is a cleat adjustment issue.  It's nothing more than a nuisance though so that's good!

My real challenge this season is going to be my heels.  The calcium deposits on my heels are getting pretty bad.  The calcium has grown in to the achilles so the tendon's attachment is all fused by bone and very painful.  I've seen the premier foot specialist at the premier sports orthopedic practice in town and he confirms that the only solution is surgical.  And it requires detaching the achilles, grinding the bone, removing as much bone as possible from the achilles (probably cutting off some) and putting it all back together.  Each foot will be 8 weeks in a boot and 5 or so months of down time.  I hope to make it to the end of this race season first, but if an achilles ruptures then the schedule will have been chosen for me. 

He did say it's unlikely to rupture, since most ruptures usually happen further up where I'm healthy.  The pain each time I run is sometimes barely manageable, but ceasing running won't get me anything except pain avoidance.

 

Jen, I'm sorry about your painful HM, but am also encouraged by the strength you showed.  Your time was pretty good considering all the fuss...shows you are pretty fit!

Dirk, your test numbers are looking great.  If we get that showdown this year it will be a nail biter!

 

2013-02-18 1:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
Happy Birthday Warren, I hope you have a great day and hope your family takes care of you today.
2013-02-18 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Happy B'day Warren!!!

Jeff, I am so sorry about your bone spur!!!  I don't even know what to say.  Please take care of it and you'll be in our prayers.

2013-02-18 6:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
Happy B-day Warren, hope you had a good day!

I completed another 20m test today and I think I screwed something up. My 1st test at the end of December beginning of January put me at 233, (2 test about the same) the test I just finished gave me a result of 265! Either I messed something up today or the 1st test was inaccurate! I almost feel that I should retest but today took a lot out of me and I am not sure I want to go through that again any time soon! The RPE was definitely there and my HR was climbing up past 150 at the 15m mark it then had some technical difficulties and didn't get any more readings. I will post some more numbers later but wanted to get some input on whether I should retest? I have went back and confirmed all settings, tire psi, tension knob etc where the same.


2013-02-18 10:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Any of you heard of the charity miles app?  It's a free app that you can start on your iphone when you start your run or bike.  Depending on how many miles you log, the charity of your choice gets some money.  You have to post each workout to FB, which is how it gets sponsored (sponsors get publicity when you post, so it's kind of like they are paying for advertising).  Pretty cool idea.  Based on some reviews, the GPS tracker isn't that great, but it's worth checking out.  Especially since you all log lots of miles...

http://www.charitymiles.org/

2013-02-18 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Did my HR test for Jorge today.  Does a 138 HR sound right?  Wasn't sure what resistance to set the trainer on or what gear to ride in... my legs felt stretched to the limit, but I didnt feel aerobic exhaustion after...

 

edit to fix error: when I looked at Dirk's numbers above and saw that my avg HR was the same as Dirks, I knew something was off... Went back and checked and sure enough, I listed my max HR instead of my avg... ha!



Edited by pistuo 2013-02-18 10:26 PM
2013-02-19 4:51 AM
in reply to: #4627717

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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

So I think you're saying your average HR for the 20 minute test period is 163?  If that is the case that should be pretty decent.  There are calculators to help you find the zones you will be working in through all of the Jorge's program in the link to the program itself.

I will say that the numbers will likely change for your next test.  Oh Yes!!  There are more tests in the program!  One a month to be precise.  The first test is almost always wrong but they seem to get a little more accurate as you get deeper into the plan.  use those numbers for this training cycle and see how they compare to new ones in about a month.

2013-02-19 7:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
JeffY - 2013-02-18 12:30 PM

Hey all.

 

First I want to wish Warren Bayek a VERY Happy Birthday!!!

Last week Dina asked how my knee is.  It's doing pretty well.  It hurts when I ride but otherwise only hurts residually from that.  Running isn't bothering it.  The good news here is that when the kneecap isn't tracking right on the bike it can ALWAYS be solved by adjustment (unlike running where the solution to the adjustment problem is correcting a muscle imbalance).

I wore my other shoes on Saturday and it didn't begin bothering me until much later in the ride than usual.  I have already tried different seat positions so I am going to conclude this is a cleat adjustment issue.  It's nothing more than a nuisance though so that's good!

My real challenge this season is going to be my heels.  The calcium deposits on my heels are getting pretty bad.  The calcium has grown in to the achilles so the tendon's attachment is all fused by bone and very painful.  I've seen the premier foot specialist at the premier sports orthopedic practice in town and he confirms that the only solution is surgical.  And it requires detaching the achilles, grinding the bone, removing as much bone as possible from the achilles (probably cutting off some) and putting it all back together.  Each foot will be 8 weeks in a boot and 5 or so months of down time.  I hope to make it to the end of this race season first, but if an achilles ruptures then the schedule will have been chosen for me. 

He did say it's unlikely to rupture, since most ruptures usually happen further up where I'm healthy.  The pain each time I run is sometimes barely manageable, but ceasing running won't get me anything except pain avoidance.

 

Jen, I'm sorry about your painful HM, but am also encouraged by the strength you showed.  Your time was pretty good considering all the fuss...shows you are pretty fit!

Dirk, your test numbers are looking great.  If we get that showdown this year it will be a nail biter!

 

Jeff -

I am sorry to hear about your knee and bone spurs. That sucks! I can't imagine the pain that it causes. I hope you can get through your season and that surgery(ies) will fall into place at the right time.

2013-02-19 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
DirkP - 2013-02-16 7:27 AM
pistuo - 2013-02-16 1:42 AM

Yogi - I think I want to do what you are doing... 2-3 trainer rides following Jorge's plan and then the long bike on the road Friday or Saturday (maybe still trying to follow the plan?).  I think most of you know I'd like to go for an IM later this year.  Since I have limited time, my plan is to get as strong as possible on the bike... then just wing it on the run (catch a cab?).  Would love to hear from some of you w/ exp how little run training you think I could get by with.

Being strong on the bike will help your run.  That much is certain.  However, I don't think you can discount how much longer the race will be if you are suffering through half of the marathon at the end.  I don't mean from a time perspective either.

I'll add something here.  A major key to having a reasonable run is pacing the bike.  And there are two things to consider in pacing.  First is the overall effort, but a second and often overlooked issue is even pacing.  I’ve read some analysis of hundreds of IM efforts, and a great predictor of a run blow up is uneven effort on the bike.  Hills and wind can really make it difficult to pace evenly, but it’s also hard to hold up enough at the beginning.

Of course plain going too hard on the bike for your current fitness is also going to kill your run, and the effort level is usually less than what we think it should be for such a long race.  There are formulas if you are using power which help people pace correctly and are also amazingly accurate predictors of having a bad run if the suggested power totals are exceeded.

In terms of the run, perhaps look at the McGee run/walk strategy if your ego can handle it.  He has had great success with his runners, even very fast ones, using the run/walk.  The truth is that only a small percentage of IM finishers actually run the entire course anyway, so why no plan it as a strategy instead of being forced to use it as a sign of failure?

 



2013-02-19 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
Thanks for the birthday well wishes.  It was a great day and we had fun.  As I said on facebook, this one didn't move me into a new age group so it's not worth keeping track!
2013-02-19 3:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

We finally took the dog in to get her spayed today. I felt so bad taking her to the vet today. When my wife and I were leaving she gave us such a look like asking us "Why are you leaving me here"! I hope everything went well, we should be able to pick her up soon. I am actually bored sitting here not having my buddy around to keep me company.

On the training front I did take the day off from work so I did get my workouts in early today. I sooooo did not want to anything today other than go back to bed and take a long nap. I have been so tired lately but not like physically tired. It is hard to explain, I am not struggling with my workouts but I feel like I can use a day where I can just sleep like 12 hours straight. I know it probably doesn't make sense but that is the only way I can explain it.

Since getting the dog and trying to keep up with training, work, family and all the other things that are going on I feel so tired mentally as well. I feel like I have been going 100 mph all the time non-stop. I don't see any end to it either. In any case I did get a decent swim in today about a 1750m continuous swim and then came home and got the week 12 day 1 Jorge WCP workout in.

That one was tough the 3x10's @95-100% are no joke. I think I did well but man Jorge makes you earn it. I think those 2x18's Dirk was mentioning are on the schedule for next week. I am not looking forward to having to do those. That is the worse thing about Jorge's program, if you decide to sneak a peak and look ahead it's just like seeing impending doom ahead. I don't even want to think about it with the 3 hour long ride this weekend.

2013-02-19 3:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
wbayek - 2013-02-19 2:59 PM
DirkP - 2013-02-16 7:27 AM
pistuo - 2013-02-16 1:42 AM

Yogi - I think I want to do what you are doing... 2-3 trainer rides following Jorge's plan and then the long bike on the road Friday or Saturday (maybe still trying to follow the plan?).  I think most of you know I'd like to go for an IM later this year.  Since I have limited time, my plan is to get as strong as possible on the bike... then just wing it on the run (catch a cab?).  Would love to hear from some of you w/ exp how little run training you think I could get by with.

Being strong on the bike will help your run.  That much is certain.  However, I don't think you can discount how much longer the race will be if you are suffering through half of the marathon at the end.  I don't mean from a time perspective either.

I'll add something here.  A major key to having a reasonable run is pacing the bike.  And there are two things to consider in pacing.  First is the overall effort, but a second and often overlooked issue is even pacing.  I’ve read some analysis of hundreds of IM efforts, and a great predictor of a run blow up is uneven effort on the bike.  Hills and wind can really make it difficult to pace evenly, but it’s also hard to hold up enough at the beginning.

Of course plain going too hard on the bike for your current fitness is also going to kill your run, and the effort level is usually less than what we think it should be for such a long race.  There are formulas if you are using power which help people pace correctly and are also amazingly accurate predictors of having a bad run if the suggested power totals are exceeded.

In terms of the run, perhaps look at the McGee run/walk strategy if your ego can handle it.  He has had great success with his runners, even very fast ones, using the run/walk.  The truth is that only a small percentage of IM finishers actually run the entire course anyway, so why no plan it as a strategy instead of being forced to use it as a sign of failure?

 

Warren that is very good point about the run. You might make it to the run but that doesn't mean you'll be able to run if you burn all your matches on the bike. I think it is a good idea to plan on run/walking the run portion of the IM. I would like to run it of course but I am thinking I would probably pick my spots to walk. That is assuming I am in good enough shape to be able to do that. I've been giving this a lot of thought and think I should be planning for this because I may wind up having to do it. 

2013-02-19 4:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
strikyr - 2013-02-19 4:57 PM

Warren that is very good point about the run. You might make it to the run but that doesn't mean you'll be able to run if you burn all your matches on the bike. I think it is a good idea to plan on run/walking the run portion of the IM. I would like to run it of course but I am thinking I would probably pick my spots to walk. That is assuming I am in good enough shape to be able to do that. I've been giving this a lot of thought and think I should be planning for this because I may wind up having to do it. 

I would suggest reading some of McGee's ideas then Tony.  Two of the biggest are that the walk/run should start from the very beginning, not when you're out of gas.  He explains why in detail, but essentially it conserves energy exponentially and starting earlier sets you up to push "the wall" back as far as possible.  Also, rather than being a concession to failure, it is simply part of the plan, which can be a huge thing mentally.  The second main point is that if you are going to do it in the race, do it in training.



Edited by wbayek 2013-02-19 6:07 PM
2013-02-19 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
strikyr - 2013-02-19 4:48 PM

We finally took the dog in to get her spayed today. I felt so bad taking her to the vet today. When my wife and I were leaving she gave us such a look like asking us "Why are you leaving me here"! I hope everything went well, we should be able to pick her up soon. I am actually bored sitting here not having my buddy around to keep me company.

On the training front I did take the day off from work so I did get my workouts in early today. I sooooo did not want to anything today other than go back to bed and take a long nap. I have been so tired lately but not like physically tired. It is hard to explain, I am not struggling with my workouts but I feel like I can use a day where I can just sleep like 12 hours straight. I know it probably doesn't make sense but that is the only way I can explain it.

Since getting the dog and trying to keep up with training, work, family and all the other things that are going on I feel so tired mentally as well. I feel like I have been going 100 mph all the time non-stop. I don't see any end to it either. In any case I did get a decent swim in today about a 1750m continuous swim and then came home and got the week 12 day 1 Jorge WCP workout in.

That one was tough the 3x10's @95-100% are no joke. I think I did well but man Jorge makes you earn it. I think those 2x18's Dirk was mentioning are on the schedule for next week. I am not looking forward to having to do those. That is the worse thing about Jorge's program, if you decide to sneak a peak and look ahead it's just like seeing impending doom ahead. I don't even want to think about it with the 3 hour long ride this weekend.

I understand completely the mental fatigue you are feeling.  It happens from time to time for all of us.  I have learned the difference between mental and physical fatigue and I press through (usually) the mental fatigue.  I don't drop work outs much but sometimes the passion I feel for completing them drop substantially wehn I am in one of those phases.

I also remember looking ahead as you have done.  Yeah!  It pretty much sucks!  I always wanted to look ahead but then almost every, single time I was sorry I did.



2013-02-19 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

So, I completed my second FTP test using the Trainer Road program.  This time was the 20 minute test.  I suffered a little more than the 8 minute test I completed on Sunday but I paced decent but not perfectly.  I went out a little bit too hard but was able to drop back only slightly in the 3rd qtr. of the testing phase.  (My numbers are below for reference.)

I was able to increase my FTP another 11 points to 339 according to the suggestion of Trainer Road.  After posting in the MF I have concluded that my numbers aren't "real world" accurate.  The coveted 4w per kG for my current test would put me at 4.67.  Another outrageous number.  If it were accurate I think I'd be looking to join Team Garmin and hit the Tour this year.  Now knowing the number are inaccurate I'll still plan on using them to accomplish some training.  As I test using the number each time I'll have a gauge by which to measure progress.  I'll also be checking the protocols to make sure I am not screwing something up.

Here are the new numbers:

NameTimekJ/CalTSSNPPowerTargetHeartCadence
Workout01:00:009488030326325214397
High Cadence 100:01:00171266288326135108
High Cadence 200:01:00201315337341143110
High Cadence 300:01:00212324349358147112
5 Min Clearing effort00:05:0011511380384356158100
20 Min Test00:20:004283735635734816295
Test: Half 100:10:002141835635634715995
Test: Quarter 100:05:00106935035234315696
Test: Quarter 200:05:001081036136135116394
Test: Half 200:10:002141935735735016494
Test: Quarter 300:05:00106935535435116393
Test: Quarter 400:05:00108935936035016594

 New FTP: 339

 Matt,  If you don't mind posting your training site for the bike I may do another test using their protocols and see if the numbers are substantially different.



Edited by DirkP 2013-02-19 7:54 PM
2013-02-19 8:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
wbayek - 2013-02-19 5:09 PM
strikyr - 2013-02-19 4:57 PM

Warren that is very good point about the run. You might make it to the run but that doesn't mean you'll be able to run if you burn all your matches on the bike. I think it is a good idea to plan on run/walking the run portion of the IM. I would like to run it of course but I am thinking I would probably pick my spots to walk. That is assuming I am in good enough shape to be able to do that. I've been giving this a lot of thought and think I should be planning for this because I may wind up having to do it. 

I would suggest reading some of McGee's ideas then Tony.  Two of the biggest are that the walk/run should start from the very beginning, not when you're out of gas.  He explains why in detail, but essentially it conserves energy exponentially and starting earlier sets you up to push "the wall" back as far as possible.  Also, rather than being a concession to failure, it is simply part of the plan, which can be a huge thing mentally.  The second main point is that if you are going to do it in the race, do it in training.

Warren I did take a look at some of McGee's stuff. I think it's pretty interesting. His plan still has you doing a majority of your time runnning mixed with some intervals of fast paced walking. I think the biggest thing as noted in some of the articles I read is putting your ego aside and getting over the fact that there is nothing wrong with walking. I'm going to read up on this a little more. I think I may give it a try as well to see just how much difference there is between the run/walk vs. all running method.

2013-02-19 8:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Dirk, the site I use is called peripedal.  Its decent but it definitely does not give you as much information as trainer road does. 

I think I am in the same boat with the inaccurate numbers.  I just do not feel that I have made that much improvement, I feel stronger but 33 watts higher seems to be too much.

Edited by mambos 2013-02-19 8:43 PM

2013-02-19 11:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
Warren & Tony - I've definitely considered using the run walk.  I even tried the 3 min run/ 1 min walk a couple long runs.  The main thing I didnt like about it was not really ever being able to get into a groove (which is super easy for me to do when I run non-stop).  I'm guessing this issue might resolve itself if I train with it long enough.
2013-02-20 6:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

Tony, how's your puppy?   I hope she is feeling as good as possible!

Tony, you know you are a triathlete when you take a day off from work to train!

Walking is not bad, it keep you going in the right direction, give your muscles time to recover and works them from a different angle.  There are some people here who walk thru every water station in a marathon and they are fairly fast, I don't mean sub 5 mm but are not bop either.

I hope everyone is doing good.

Jeff, how's the bone spur?

Dirk, how's the foot?

Well with son's baseball schedule and rental houses and life, I'm not having time to get my swimming in.  The only time I can go is after work and it is something all he time.  I wish the pool opened early!  I'll have to go when I can...



2013-02-20 7:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed

pistuo - 2013-02-20 12:46 AM Warren & Tony - I've definitely considered using the run walk.  I even tried the 3 min run/ 1 min walk a couple long runs.  The main thing I didnt like about it was not really ever being able to get into a groove (which is super easy for me to do when I run non-stop).  I'm guessing this issue might resolve itself if I train with it long enough.

Will I would check out McGee like Warren is suggesting. He does like a 10:1 ratio, 10 minutes running and 1 minute fast walking. He also breaks up long runs like 3x5K with some interval of walking in between each 5K for example. Seems reasonable to me I want to do more reading up on it though.

2013-02-20 7:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
KWDreamun - 2013-02-20 7:09 AM

Tony, how's your puppy?   I hope she is feeling as good as possible!

Tony, you know you are a triathlete when you take a day off from work to train!

Walking is not bad, it keep you going in the right direction, give your muscles time to recover and works them from a different angle.  There are some people here who walk thru every water station in a marathon and they are fairly fast, I don't mean sub 5 mm but are not bop either.

I hope everyone is doing good.

Jeff, how's the bone spur?

Dirk, how's the foot?

Well with son's baseball schedule and rental houses and life, I'm not having time to get my swimming in.  The only time I can go is after work and it is something all he time.  I wish the pool opened early!  I'll have to go when I can...

Karl thanks for asking about Luna. She is doing better this morning but she is definitely not herself. She was very much out of it last night I felt so bad for her. I had to carry her out of the car last night she would not move. She'll probably be lethargic for the next few days but hopefully feeling better. The real reason for taking the day off was to take her to the vet and be around just in case but you know I had to take advantage of that and get my training in there.

2013-02-20 8:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
Weekly weigh in, and for the 3rd week in a row I am at 19lbs. Not really putting much effort into this but have started logging the nutrition as much as I can. I did have a day last week where I logged a 15 but that was an anomaly.

Today I also completed my first trainer session at the new level and it showed! Workout was basically a 2x20 at 80% and for once my HR was getting up into the 140's, prior I haven't been reaching that level! Hopefully the new numbers are more accurate, otherwise I am going to be a pile of mush on the floor!
2013-02-20 10:45 AM
in reply to: #4542598

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Elite
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far northern CA
Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed
It looks like I'm getting roped into doing Ragnar - San Francisco to Napa.  Has anyone ever done a Ragnar?
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