Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! (Page 68)

I think strength training really should be considered a 4th element of training;  I don't do it enough, I'd rather do other things to be honest.  However I've realized that my calves and core are weak and I'm more susceptible to injury due to it.  

Anyone with a prior injury to an area needs to strengthen that muscle group, just waiting out an injury isn't effective; you need to strengthen it as well.  

Of course, I hate coming in here and huffing and puffing like I'm an expert (I'm not), just a guy who reads a lot about the subject.

I just think triathletes don't like to lift so people will argue against it.  Its almost like eating your vegetables. 

So I'm pretty excited,  tomorrow I have my first swim lesson!  

He's one of the best swim coaches in the area (and probably the country): 

http://www.novamasters.com/coaching-staff/coach-michael-collins/
 

Of course its overkill, Fred's dog could probably show me how to shave off 20 seconds off my stroke! 

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Wouldn't that be "Dogged"?

 My dog is a fast swimmer, like Andy Potts fast.  He's dumb as a rock, but so is Micheal Phelps, so maybe I should start putting him in events too!

 

The big issue I have with him is he tries to 'climb' on me while I swim, as if I'm a canoe or something! 

Hey peeps - checking in after going off the grid (training and BTing).  I'm back and ready for the last push before lake placid taper.

In the meantime, if you want to help me spend my money, swing by my logs to pick between race wheels or to recommend something else.

BT will probably censor it, but I'd call that literally getting b*tched!

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That dog has got "personality"

He's got character alright, when he gets scared he will 'jump' on me; ala Scooby Doo, just not as graceful.
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So I'm back from my swimming lessons, I'm not sure how fast I was going but I'm pretty sure it was my fastest ever!  He didn't overwhelm me with information, but I learned enough to fix some major problems I didn't even know existed!  

I'll get a video analysis that goes into more detail which will be nice to refer to in the future, but I have plenty to perfect right now.

Now I just need to get into the pool and get my times down; I'm hoping I can drop my 500y time by 2 minutes and my IM time by 30 minutes.  Both sound ambitious but I'm a terrible swimmer,  just by improving form I'll get better.

I would recommend him to anyone in the area (I guess that's just Ken). 

 

In terms of pacing.... there's more ways to fault than there is to get it right.  On Feb 6th I ran the Sedona Marathon (my first marathon ever).  It was all hills, so I took it really easy because of the hills and having never done a marathon before.  [History included a 1/2 mary at 1:43 in mid-November and a 22:00 5k on Jan. 24th]  I came in at 4:02, McMillan calculator says based on my 1/2 I should be able to do a 3:37, based on the more recent 5k it would be a 3:34.  At the end of Sedona I ran my fastest 10k since high school and felt really good at the end, even went hiking the following days without TOO much trouble.  Obviously I didn't go that hard.

Now, San Diego Marathon, I went the complete opposite route.  I went out faster than planned, but I'm not saying the first 5 miles were faster, but instead it was the first 18miles were faster than I planned.  Again, based on McMillan and recent results:  1/2 mary on April 11th was 1:36 giving a 3:22 mary and a 21:04 5k on March 7th says a 3:25 mary.  Those are my closest results to compare, but there's also 2+ months of training to consider, plus the altitude difference of running in Denver vs San Diego.  Now, I went all or nothing in San Diego for a specific purpose beyond just trying to BQ.  I knew BQ at this point was a long shot, but I didn't think it was 'completely' unobtainable, but I knew the odds were in favor of blowing myself up.  I went out that fast and maintained that pace for two reasons.  1) To test my own limits at that pace and learn what I'm capable of.  2) (secondary if I didn't BQ) to experience a complete system failure during a race (something I had never pushed myself to the point of).

So dealing with pacing in long events I've experienced both sides finally.  Not going hard enough and going too hard.  I personally believe I've learned much more from going TOO hard than I have from going too easy.  Pacing myself to what I want is actually easy... DECIDING on that pace is the hard part.  I decided to go out hard in San Diego and hit the half way with a new PR for a half, I knew that going into it.... how long I could maintain it was where I was looking to learn the most about myself.

Personally... I think I did exactly what I should have done in order to learn the most.  Sedona built confidence in the ability to complete the distance and not make me absolutely hate marathons (I think it's easy for a first timer to go TOO hard blow up really early and come out of it never wanting to do another one).  San Diego let me test my current limits, showed me what it feels like to push through pain after running 22 miles, showed me what the mary in the IM will probably feel like, and gave me a new goal as well as new insight as to how to train for the next mary and the upcoming IM.  I really believe that going too hard has shown me more than doing it just right.  Doing it just right makes you wonder if you could have gone a few seconds per mile faster than you did.... in this case... I know that's not true.

Back onto pacing... the hardest thing about it is that it's a moving target.  You really are guessing at each race.  Guess too slow, you are left feeling good after the race... guess too fast and you you'll know before the end of the race.  In my personal opinion, if you have fuel for a sprint finish at the end, you've gone to slow the rest of the time.  If you find you're pushing harder and harder during that last mile and yet your speed has not increased and yet it also has not dropped... you nailed it.  If you find yourself pushing harder and harder and your speed is slowing more and more towards the end... you went too fast during the first part.  But, being a moving target based on current fitness, last week or nutrition, the last weeks worth of sleep, mileage over the last couple weeks, etc.... you're looking for as close to 'perfect' as possible, but unfortunately I think that comes with experience.  Just don't be afraid to experience what happens when you go too fast, you'll learn a lot from it. 

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I use hammer endurolytes and have had no problems with them. I combine them with HEED for my electrolyte supplement.

Same here. For all those IMers....how fatigued should i be feeling now with 2.5 weeks of peak training to go. My muscles are pretty tired...and i find it hard to get out of bed. However...when i go to workout i manage to finish my workouts at a pretty decent pace and am very happy i was able to push through. Does this mean to HTFU and push...or take a day or 2 off to hopefully recover...then get back at it?

Fred, not too critical at all.  It's good to hear outside thoughts.  Personally I think my fitness is in the 3:20-3:25 area for a marathon at this point.  Based on how I felt, I believe I could have played it safe and went with a 1:40 for the first half and likely have done a 1:40-1:42 during the second half.  But I would have come away from it wondering if I could have done more and never have been satisfied.  Perhaps I'm a little odd on this one, but I find more personal satisfaction in attempting something a little beyond my reach and failing than I do with taking the safer and more guaranteed route (not that there is any true guarantee when you're talking about a marathon).

But with that, based on the goal I set back in January before I had ever run a marathon before I predicted a 3:25 for San Diego.  Although I technically didn't achieve that, I know in my heart I could have played it safe and met that goal.

Good luck at EagleMan on Sunday too. 

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Looking at my data it appears there's a number of similarities between that race of yours and my race, except I was 15-20bpm below what I believe my LT to be.  During my last half mary I averaged 176 and could feel I was on the edge the entire time, finishing the last 7+ miles of that at 178-180.  So I must assume my LT is somewhere up near 180.

Now, Perhaps being 5k feet lower in elevation had something to do with this, but my HR was no were near 180 during the San Diego Marathon.  Here's my info:

mile	ave pace	ave HR	max HR	cadence	ascent	descent
1	7:12	151	161	83	80	70
2	7:01	163	168	83	77	55
3	6:59	163	167	84	63	79
4	6:42	165	169	82	53	118
5	6:40	162	169	79	276	222
6	6:50	168	171	83	211	345
7	6:53	168	171	85	116	74
8	7:05	168	171	83	230	146
9	7:06	170	172	83	227	226
10	7:10	171	174	84	130	71
11	7:14	170	173	82	117	97
12	6:46	165	174	82	37	185
13	7:12	167	171	83	70	59
14	7:19	166	170	82	47	66
15	7:15	166	168	84	61	72
16	7:22	166	170	82	107	87
17	7:37	167	170	82	84	42
18	7:35	164	166	84	65	117
19	7:31	165	167	84	57	50
20	7:57	163	166	83	91	78
21	8:23	160	164	82	58	66
22	9:12	156	162	80	88	81
23	9:08	156	160	81	69	70
24	13:01	141	149	73	101	82
25	12:44	140	147	79	111	100
26	11:35	142	146	81	62	86
26.2	10:24	146	150	80	39	15

I never actually looked at my HR during the race. I was going off feel the entire time and the paces I was doing really did feel right at the time. Based on my HR, I can understand why it felt that way, 160-170 is pretty comfortable for me.  When I drop below 160 I can start carrying on full conversations and can start munching away on clif bars and things that you have to chew a lot.

It's pretty obvious that I should have stayed away from those sub 7minute miles... there definitely was a lot of them during the first half.  The sudden change around mile 13-14 in pace wasn't due to fatigue, but instead a conscience realization that a 1:32 half was faster than I should have gone so I backed the pace off towards 7:15 intentionally.  At first went to 7:15 so I had time to do some calculations without giving up any time, once I realized just how much additional time I had in the bank, I realized I could back it off towards 7:30s and still hit the 3:10 mark.  Recalculated again around mile 20, realized I could go up as high as 8s and still be on target for 3:10, so I took advantage of that for the next mile or two, but then I can see mile 22 is where it really started to drift.  The 8:23 was about 10-15s slower than what I wanted, the 9:12 and 9:08 was where I realized I needed to switch into survival mode... figured 4 miles left, additional minute each mile, I'd still be looking at a solid 3:15-3:18.  But unfortunately mile 24 is where those sub 7 paces caught up to me.