Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 69)

Awesome.  That's the right response Matt.  I know you've heard it a million times, but you wake up one day and they're grown up.  Enjoy every moment.

Try doing it backwards once. 

Oh, dear gawd!!!!

I'll give it a try! 

Update on my foot:

I'm almost at 7 weeks of no running.  I started walking on the treadmill last week without much pain.  This week, I added in some shallow water aqua jogging.  My foot doesn't hurt much.  I think it's more pain from weak tendons, ligaments and muscles now due to not running.  The "pain" is much different than it was in December/early January.  Next week, I will do some running intervals during my treadmill walks and see what happens.

At the beginning of January, I thought I would gain a little weight due to not running.  I'm happy to report that I haven't gained or lost any weight!  I think I've established a good swimming and strength training habit.  My cycling seems to be getting a bit better, too.  The running lay off may have been beneficial!

Next weekend, I'll be doing a bike time trial.  I'm going to go into it with an open mind.  I haven't done any hard interval work on the bike to prepare for the race.  I'll just see what some good old fashioned Zone 2 base work does for my time trialling ability.

Anyway.....I thought you might like to know how I've been holding up.  I sure miss my running.

Matt I concur with everyone else. You can always find time to get a run in but it's not always easy to make moments like that happen with your kids. I think that's what being a Dad is all about.

Dirk x2, looks like you are making great progress and sounds like you are going to be ready to run Boston.

36 degrees - are you kidding that's a heatwave.

Tracy glad to hear that you are making progress with your foot and it sounds like you will be running soon enough. Also glad to hear that you have been able to maintain your fitness level without being able to run.

Now about the time trial, haven't we heard this one before from you and didn't you go out and set a course record last time around? I'm pretty sure you are going to do very well regardless of how you feel or how much training you've been doing.

I've been thinking for a while about posting a long commentary on my perspective on proper pedaling technique.  It does fly in the face of the 'intuition' approach to pedaling that everyone's been taught ever since I became a cyclist. (by 'intuition' I mean that it became the established dogma because someone thought about it and decided circles were the best because it seemed logical then taught it and it caught on).

There are (or is at least 1) compelling study that suggests it's NOT optimal to pedal in circles.  Rather than go deep in to my dissertation, I will link to a video where the topic is introduced and some exercises are suggested to help cycling strength in the gym, but only targeting movements that are applicable to the NEW suggested pedaling technique.

I can expound later on this, but if you have any questions or challenges to idea of questioning the traditional wisdom with pedaling technique please post and ask.

Ok, here's that link I forgot to add....

http://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-training/stop-pedaling-in-circles-how-to-improve-your-mtb-pedal-stroke/

BE CAREFUL with that!!!!!!! That is exactly how I inflamed my achilles last summer but I did shallow water jogging for 40 min. That is when we went on vacation and the hotel pool we stopped in overnight only had shallow water. My calves were not happy after that. But you are right, water jogging is not joke.

I am glad to know how your doing and I'm happy to read things are better! I don't gain or lose much weight from running anymore either. Probably because most of my runs are at such an easy pace.

Good luck at your TT.

UMM Yeah!  No complaining Karl!  I would love to have some 36 degree days for my long runs!  I am beginning to lean toward Warren's statement pretty quickly.

Speaking of which I did a 6.5 mile run tonight and man was it freakin cold and windy and I mean WINDY! It's been like that all week with the wind here. The cold and wind used to not bother me much I'm either getting soft or old or both.

Jeff thanks for posting this and I think this is pretty interesting. I wish there was a little more detail on the study that they did there. He touched on it a little bit when going through the excerises which seemed to really focus on driving from the hip. I think we'd all be interested in your thoughts on this. To be honest I feel like I am less of a spinner and more of a masher on the bike myself, not saying my technique is right or good but I think it takes more coordination to spin then to mash. One other question on this, so is it less taxing on the legs with the controlled mash technique as opposed to the spinning technique?

Jen, ouchie on the tooth, hope it is better today...and finished... a year..wow!

Jeff, I look forward to seeing the video when I get home on biking, they have it blocked here at work.

How many of ya'll have read the book Ironwars, ..they had an interesting comment as i was reading last night that might upset some people and maybe i read more into it.  When Steve and Mark were training and racing, they knew 1 way to train, go all out...  the comment was since we now have computers, advanced training plans, hear rate meters, better nutrition etc, the times really have not decreased.  I was amazed.  Now I think they were talking about the run portion.

Jeff, I too am interested in your thoughts on pedaling technique and development.  I don't really do much in the way of spinning at high rates to help develop the muscle memory nor do I take the time to strength train for specific aspects or swimming, cycling or running.  With all of the other training time I use up fitting in strength training would have negative impacts on the family because I would never be home.

Tony, I suggest you try spinning your legs more.  Over time you should find that it will develop a more energy efficient and less muscle fatiguing effort.  Matt just tried this a few weeks ago and found that he had been spinning more slowly and using more muscular force to drive the bike, then began to spin more and found he had less fatigue after the ride.  I don't remember his exact comments but I even this he had less fatigue the following day after a hard ride.  You can slowly increase your cadence over time, which is the way I've done it, by simply trying to add a few RPM's over a few WO's and then allowing the adaptations to occur, develop muscle memory at that cadence and then repeating in two or three months later.  I've actually been doing that for about 2 years.  When I began cycling I was in the low 80's and now I am in the mid 90's for my typical ride.

I've gone through this same phenomenon, and I haven't spent any time training to increase cadence.  My natural cadence has just gone up a bit, so that 93-94 is where I will settle in if I am left on my own.

I'll try to hunt down the link, but I read a study which seemed to indicate higher cadence isn't always the right path, and in fact it was related to power output.  So that as your power increases the optimal cadence increases, but for rider A and rider B who are at dramatically different levels, the optimal cadence could be quite different.

Dirk I can spin better outdoors and can keep a cadence in the 90's or near 100 depending on the gear I am riding in. I think trying to spin on the trainer efficiently is a little more difficult for me. I find I'm way too shaky at an easier gear where I can be more effective and spin in the 90's. When I go to a more difficult gear my cadence drops off in the 80's but I am more comfortable there and not shaky.

That is sort of why I threw that question out to Jeff on spinning vs. this controlled mashing and what effect that may have on you. It would seem that spinning would be less taxing on the legs then mashing and that spinning is more about using your respitory system as opposed to mashing with the legs.

To Warren's point I have sort of heard the same thing. There is always the debate on spinning at a higher cadence vs. maybe going with a more natural cadence which may be in fact lower. For me not riding as long as you guys my cadence is lower but I believe over time and with training I can improve on that that same way you guys have done.

Tony, I also know that the head of Fitwerx, which is a semi-famous bike shop up here in the northeast, recommends a lower cadence on a trainer.  Not because of the instability though, so you may want to figure that part out.

This  is an article he wrote by BT about trainer riding in general, which includes his cadence thoughts.  I talked to him when I bought my bike about it and he had a lot to say about it.

He won that indoor TT I did, btw, at 440 watts average power.  A true beast.

This  is his short answer to the optimal cadence question.

Well, strangely enough, the times not decreasing applies on the BIKE as well!  Go figure!  Even with the super aero advances in bikes!  I am actually surprised to find out just how creative riders were 20 years ago to get aero.  Lots of 'technology' discovered and lost over the years.  (talking about beam bikes and home made aero bars and such)

I think that statement applies to pro level racers.  In the age group ranks things have become far more competitive with the fields being much deeper, but not sure about kona age group winners.

In the old days, HUGE volume was the norm.  Over time people began to train less, thinking that increased intensity was a good substitute.  I think that's got a lot to do with it.  A lot of athletes are under training.  Sounds weird huh?  Their training load might be just as high, but using less volume and more intensity.

Some of those early ironman studs would turn out 500 mile bike weeks and 80 mile run weeks...but very, very slowly by our standards today.

Usually the talk about 'all out' training back in the day is exageration like walking barefoot, uphill both ways, in the snow, 30 miles just to get to school.  But every once in a while, they did bust loose and do superhuman workouts!

At least that's what I have come to believe about it...if the book is specific about repeatedly doing high intensity workouts (with volume) back in the day, let me know.

Of course, there have also been times in the past where training protocols were to push everyone to failure and the few that didn't injure or burn out due to superhuman hardiness would rise to the top...

Warren, these are great articles.  The guy is smart and communicates well. 

I especially appreciate his discussion of cadence range and why faster is better, but going past the sweet spot and going too fast hurts efficiency.  That 'too fast' spot can be trained though.  So even if your current optimum cadence is something like 85, I still suggest you do focused high cadence drills to increase your efficient cadence range.  Because over time you can very likely produce more power and/or leave your legs fresher for the run by upping your optimal cadence.

I will eventually get my thoughts together on pedaling technique.  The technique discussion won't delve into cadence except to discuss how it needs to change along with cadence.

The video I linked yesterday did a good job of talking about the first basic...the downstroke being for power but then the feet "getting out of the way".   You can call this pedaling in circles if you want, but it's not applying power to the pedals at those parts of the stroke.

I am on the side of large volume for sure.  I have been trying to carry as a high a volume as possible for most of my time involved in triathlon.  Even the first year, with little knowledge of proper training, I used a training model that was heavy on volume.  I rarely did anything that involved speed work, or what I thought might have been speed work at that time in my "career."  I also made plenty of mistakes during the early training sessions by running harder, riding outside of intelligent norms by never getting any kind of warm up...........

I just did something interesting.  I went back to my logs from 2009 when I began training for triathlon and looked around a bit.  I found some really interesting information about my run paces, bike speeds and swim speed and distances.  I have truly come a long way!

In 2009 I was into a recovery period from a football/running injury that had left me sidelined from running beginning 7-08-09.  The original injury was from a complete ACL tear and 2 meniscus tears that came as a result of a pick up game of football with fellow fire fighters during our yearly "ice bowl" several years prior, something like 1998 or 1999.  At that time I was power lifting and had incredibly strong legs that were able to take the place of an ACL for years.  Later, after not lifting for a few years, the muscle atrophy took place and I had a the ACL replaced in 2003..........Fast forward another few years and I was overweight and completely out of shape and started running in early 2007. 

Now back to April 2009.  I had re-injured my knee from a very poor training regimen over a 2 year period that had absolutely no control of anything other than "GO RUN!"  I wasn't smart enough to look into how to get into a routine, ask questions and do research.  So I ran.  Too much!  Too fast!  And with no recovery periods.  I re-injured my knee one week away from my second HM while running a final 11 mile run before the next weeks' race.  (It's funny, I could take to you to the exact spot on the trail I was running on when I re-injured my meniscus that day in 2009.)  I almost feel over because of the pain I experienced!  I was almost entirely incapable of walking for a few minutes much less run.  After a few minutes I was able to gather myself and finish the last 1.5 miles of that run..........Then I ran the HM the next week.  I had no problems during the race but in the few days after I could barely walk due to that injury.  To shorten this already very long story.....with an actual point, I tried some PT and it worked for a while.  Then after only about a month of running shorter distances again (after my PT cleared me), I was running hills in southern Ohio (and loving it) and re-injured that knee again!!  I was devastated!!  I had planned to ramp up the running and run my first marathon in Oct. 2009, the Marine Corps, to honor my 3 nephews that were serving.  (Read my 2010 RR for that race in my race log if you like.)

I had no choice but to throw my chances of running the MCM 2010 out the window.  But I learned so much during this injury time that became so incredibly valuable to me as an athlete (or pseudo athlete).  I had an incredible PT that basically forced me to understand that I needed to train SMART and not hard.  It was his direction that pushed me to look into getting myself on track.  During the couple of months of PT, he suggested I use the bike and some swimming to help provide some training balance.  It was here that I began my delve into triathlon.

I began my training/cross training so I could run but quickly found the thought of triathlon intriguing..........

.....I had my first road bike ride the end of July 2009.  By the end of August I began training for triathlon and logging on BT.  My first bike ride logged was on Aug. 21, 2009.  A ride that took me 1:15:49 to ride 23 miles (18.2 MPH).  All HARD miles!  I didn't consider WU's because I wanted to ride fast.

The very next day I had my first "run" since I had the injury the beginning of June that kept me from running AT ALL (hills in Ohio).  It was all of 1.25 miles of a walk/run program that included intervals to re-acclimate my body to the rigors of running.  It took me 15 minutes to cover that distance.  It was hard on me mentally!  I did this type of program for another month and I completed my first total run on Sept. 24 and covered 3.5 miles in 38:43 (11:04 minute miles).  It was another 16 days before I was able to get outside for my first "real" run on Oct. 10 2009.  That's over 4 months of being out of commission, for the most part, because of poor training habits.

Now my cycling gave me all kinds of balance and supported my muscles much, much more.  In these early days of cycling I was all on my own and never rode with anyone.  I simply went out and hammered the trash out of my legs.  I averaged 3+ hours of riding a week early on (trainer and outdoors) but I backed it down at the first of 2010 slightly.  However, nearly the entire winter I carried an average of more than Oly training.

Swimming too, was a much higher level than I needed to maintain an Oly swim.  I was swimming 2000+ yards per swim after about 2 months or so of swim training.  I wasn't exactly fast.  I was seeing an average of over 2 minutes per 100 yards (according to BT's training log) early on but I took much longer rests than I do today.  In November of 2009 I had a swim that averaged 2:10 per 100 yards.

One point of this VERY long post:

For the record, some of these numbers are a little bit skewed because the pool was nearly unavailable in January otherwise I would have had something closer to 6500 yards per week.  I also allowed the BT number per 100 yards to remain because it measures the entire length of the WO including the rests, so the numbers comparable.  (Were I to use the Garmin swimming numbers it would show faster times per 100 yards.)

The bike numbers are based on hard riding in 2010 with little or no WU so the speeds for each ride would likely be much slower if I had been smart enough to train correctly.

Running?  Well those numbers are still not very good for 2010.  I was still training too hard then.  My runs should not have been in the time range they were.  I learned a lot from my PT but some things I couldn't apply because I still couldn't pull back from all of the faster running I had been doing early on.  Well, not many people have called me terribly intelligent.  I do remember my PT telling me he knew very quickly that I would be one of the more rare types of people that he would have to warn NOT to push myself too much.

Moral: If you take a notion, go back and take a look at your logs as far back as you desire.  See where you've been and you're likely to get a picture of where you're going.