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Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 7)
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 2011-01-19 2:14 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Extreme Veteran  1074  |  Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSEDDamn! Reading all these posts, something tells me this group is going to be a bit more hardcore than I am! I am of the "shut up and ride" school of training. I just go. I know how far I need to go and I just effen get there. Have a HRM, havent used it much. My legs will blow out before I can get to higher zones. After doing all this for a couple years, I go by feel: I kind of know how hard to push to get my fat butt X miles. Its all very very unscientific. About the only thing I am really missing is down tube shifters. |
| 2011-01-19 2:45 PM in reply to: #3309370 |
Veteran 693   Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED ChicagoMan65 - 2011-01-19 3:14 PM Damn! Reading all these posts, something tells me this group is going to be a bit more hardcore than I am! I am of the "shut up and ride" school of training. I just go. I know how far I need to go and I just effen get there. Have a HRM, havent used it much. My legs will blow out before I can get to higher zones. After doing all this for a couple years, I go by feel: I kind of know how hard to push to get my fat butt X miles. Its all very very unscientific. About the only thing I am really missing is down tube shifters. Nothing wrong with RPE (going by feel). Most people use HR/power and that is what I'm most used to personally. I go by feel on oly/sprint but find I need to see the watts to properly pace the bike. My first couple of years at IM I used HR. For myself, without some bit of data I don't know if I'm improving or how to train more effectively. jamie |
| 2011-01-19 9:40 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Member 58 Windsor, ON | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED 51 min run this morning. Really slow, this Maffetone HR stuff doesn't do much for your ego. 40 min ride late tonight after work. Nice 30 mins pushing my HR. Will do more tomorrow. How is everyone else's training going? |
| 2011-01-19 10:59 PM in reply to: #3308175 |
Veteran 199 Abbotsford | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED So I'm guessing if I can't get up to the right hr zones and my legs die that I like need more time on the bike to build leg strength |
| 2011-01-20 4:47 AM in reply to: #3310192 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Danrl88 - 2011-01-19 10:40 PM 51 min run this morning. Really slow, this Maffetone HR stuff doesn't do much for your ego. 40 min ride late tonight after work. Nice 30 mins pushing my HR. Will do more tomorrow. How is everyone else's training going? Yesterday I got in a broken 10 mile run (5@ lunc, 5 after work) and a 2K continuous swim in the morning. Today I need to do threshold intervals on the bike. Unfortunately it looks like shovelling is in my future. I know what you mean about maffetone and ego. I felt the exact same way b/4 I bagged it and ran on pace. Jamie |
| 2011-01-20 4:57 AM in reply to: #3310272 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED mpdiotte - 2011-01-19 11:59 PM So I'm guessing if I can't get up to the right hr zones and my legs die that I like need more time on the bike to build leg strength I'm thinking that if you can't get up to the right HR zones then your HR zones aren't determined correctly for you. One thing is for sure, don't train on MPH. Just put a piece of tape over that readout while you are on the trainer. It means absolutlely nothing. It seems like most people in the group are HR trainers so they can chime in on the different ways of testing. One that I know of was linked to previously from Mark Allen online. It's the 180-your age +/- a whole bunch of fudge factors to get to your correct number. In re-reading your post do you just mean that you can't keep a particular zone for the entire session? If that is the case, then you need to build intervals in with 1-2 minute breaks in between until you can tie it all together and do the entire session at your desired zone. For example: 10'Z1 4X5' (1' rest) Z2 remainder at Z1 Then just make the 5' intervals 10' intervals and add to it. In the example above 20' (33%) is spent at a typical IM HR zone. Over time build that to 100%.... This is how you get stronger on the bike. Don't get fooled into thinking that you need to do squats or something silly like that. You just need more time/smarter training on the bike. make sense? Jamie |
| 2011-01-20 7:21 AM in reply to: #3310366 |
Regular 92 Cincinnati | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED jamiej - 2011-01-20 5:47 AM Danrl88 - 2011-01-19 10:40 PM 51 min run this morning. Really slow, this Maffetone HR stuff doesn't do much for your ego. Yesterday I got in a broken 10 mile run (5@ lunc, 5 after work) and a 2K continuous swim in the morning. Today I need to do threshold intervals on the bike. Unfortunately it looks like shovelling is in my future. I know what you mean about maffetone and ego. I felt the exact same way b/4 I bagged it and ran on pace. Jamie40 min ride late tonight after work. Nice 30 mins pushing my HR. Will do more tomorrow. How is everyone else's training going? Got 3500 continuous - First swim over 3k and first one over an hour (1:05.29)! Was going to spin afterwards but the snow has started and wanted to make sure I made it to the office before it got too bad. Should get a small workout this evening shoveling the snow! |
| 2011-01-20 8:31 AM in reply to: #3271048 |
Expert 1121 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Good little track workout this morning. Got the 'ole heart a pumpin'! Time to enjoy my Starbucks now....Venti style! |
| 2011-01-20 9:56 AM in reply to: #3310637 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED sbsmann - 2011-01-20 9:31 AM Good little track workout this morning. Got the 'ole heart a pumpin'! Time to enjoy my Starbucks now....Venti style! me likey the venti! |
| 2011-01-20 10:49 AM in reply to: #3310369 |
Veteran 199 Abbotsford | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED So Im 34 and use the mark Allen way for zones. I have it figured out for my running and was told that I can go by that as there is not much diff. This is what I have. HR/Pace label Range data50% - 60% 94 - 11360% - 70% 113 - 13270% - 80% 132 - 15080% - 90% 150 - 16990% - 100% 169 - 180So I'm lucky if I can get my hr up to 145. I will be killing myself to get that, my legs couldn't hold that pace. |
| 2011-01-20 11:46 AM in reply to: #3271048 |
Member 58 Windsor, ON | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Got in a ride on the trainer before work. 70 mins...60 mins just above what I think will be my HIM target HR, and just below my Aerobic Max, felt really good. |
| 2011-01-20 12:24 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
New user 230 | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED 60 min ride yesterday at avg wattage followed with a 20 min run. Plan to hit the bike again tonight followed by some pool time. |
| 2011-01-20 12:54 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Veteran 169 Falls Church VA | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Got in 6 miles at lunch. Thinking about getting a couple more miles in tonight after my ride. Any thoughts from the group on breaking up workouts? I read somewhere that when breaking up workouts, one workout should be the primary workout and the second should be at a reduced pace/effort. This came from an article about riding the bike to work (which I do for most of the year) and how to maximize the effectiveness of the split workout. I read the article recently, so I havent had the opportunity to try this out and judge the pros and cons. Up until now, Id just gone hard both ways, its a little over 13 miles each way. The article was answering a question about a rider who had like a 15 mile trip, so there were quite a few similarities. If anyone has more experience with this, Id be interested to hear about it. |
| 2011-01-20 1:38 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Member 25 | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Wow! When I logged in last week, I think I was the second person to join the group and we only had a couple posts. Now we are on page 9 and I have spent half a day trying to catch up on what has been said. So here is my quick rundown: NAME: Jennifer Jeans- Lake Villa, IL (NW burb of Chicago)
FAMILY STATUS: Divorced mother of 4- 7, 9, 11, and 15 2011 RACES: Cutting Edge Half Classic in Effingham, IL on June 19th. Rev3 IM in Sandusky, OH Sept 11, 2011 WEIGHT-LOSS: None needed. I'm 5'9", 138-140lbs. I'll probably drop about 10 lb over the course of training, but its neither a goal nor a necessity. I do not own a Garmin, an HR monitor, a watt meter, or any other fancy gadget discussed by y'all. I am lucky Chicagoman, I go on feel. My boss aspired to be an Olympic swimmer at one point in his life. He takes us to the pool a couple times a week to train. His comment on my stroke is that I pretty much have all the mechanics down, I just need to build upper body strength to move myself faster. I just bought my first road bike. It is a used Cannondale 613. I was amazed at how zippy I felt on it after using my daughter's $99 Huffy mountain bike My run is my weak point. Like the tortoise, slow but steady is my motto. Usually around a 10' per mile pace. Last summer, when I was training for Tempe HIM, I had my pace down to 9'34". So I know that as I settle into my 20 week plan, the times will get better. Expect to see more activity from me in a couple weeks when I actually get focused on my plan. Jennifer |
Had a few 1-1.5 hour, open road rides before the winter set in. Was going 16-18 mph with relative ease. | 2011-01-20 1:50 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Expert 1010 Greer, SC | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Great workouts everyone and welcome Jennifer! |
| 2011-01-20 1:53 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Extreme Veteran 605 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED I actaully worked out a little yesterday. I went for a 30 minute swim. I was feeling decent so gave it a shot. I went really, really, really easy. I think I swam a total of 1k with my longest without a break being 300. I did, however, do the 300 with all flip turns, which are new to me. Anyway, felt good then and the rest of the day. Ended up having to work until 2am this morning. Felt good when I woke up. Right now I'm feeling like this damn cold is starting all over. Hopefully I'm just really tired. I'm really done being sick...really. |
| 2011-01-20 2:51 PM in reply to: #3309357 |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-OPEN Yeah, I loved the UMich program (yes, Ross). They really treated us well. The MBA has been indispensible for me. I own a small (but successful) consulting company. We provide management and marketing consulting (sometimes a bit of finance/accounting) to whomever will hire us. So far, it pays the bills. |
| 2011-01-20 2:58 PM in reply to: #3311646 |
| Member 50 Winnipeg | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED I'd be interested in getting feedback on the value of spin classes vers a bike trainer, I typically do 2 -3 spin classes during the week and then do about 3 -4 continuious hours on a spin bike on saturday mornings which is - 1 hours spinning on my own, a 1 hour spin class and another 1 hour on my own and then a final spin class. I haven't bit the bullet on a trainer but reading the treads has me wondering. I certainly get a good work out in the spin classes but is it the right kind of work out as definately not in aero position. but we do a good mix of hill climbing and high cadance work. Off for a run this evening doing hill repeats with our run club it a balmy -38 with the wind chill so will be a touch chilly out side. EMBRACE THE WIND..... |
| 2011-01-20 3:11 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Member 67 | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED All, I'd like your opinions on speed/interval workouts for the run. What seems to suit me best is to do intervals of 3 min at increased pace (about 6:15 pace) followed by 2 min of recovery pace (about 9:00 pace). So that means each interval is 5 min. |
| 2011-01-20 3:44 PM in reply to: #3311851 |
Member 58 Windsor, ON | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED clewis38 - 2011-01-20 4:11 PM . My guess, and keep in mind this is just my theory which could be way off. a) you should probably treat it similar to Jamie's suggestions for bike interval, ie. Look to extend the length of your interval and shorten you rest ultimately bringing the number of intervals down so you are running longer at your faster pace. What is your goal pace for the HIM? I found myself doing some one minute intervals last year where I was running a pace well above anything I could hope to maintain for more than a few miles, in retrospect I don't see why I was training this hard for such short intervals for a race of 21.1kms. I think I am just being brain washed by this Maffetone book. My plan for when I start some anaerobic/intervals is to run longer 10-15 min intervals just above race pace with 2-5 mins recovery just below race pace...and work on extending each interval towards the goal of combining them. That's just my plan and thoughts, like I said I could be way off base (if I am can someone please let me know) sorry again about the format, I am no longer posting with my phone All, I'd like your opinions on speed/interval workouts for the run. What seems to suit me best is to do intervals of 3 min at increased pace (about 6:15 pace) followed by 2 min of recovery pace (about 9:00 pace). So that means each interval is 5 min. Edited by Danrl88 2011-01-20 3:46 PM |
| 2011-01-20 3:48 PM in reply to: #3311851 |
Extreme Veteran 565 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED clewis38 - 2011-01-20 1:11 PM All, I'd like your opinions on speed/interval workouts for the run. What seems to suit me best is to do intervals of 3 min at increased pace (about 6:15 pace) followed by 2 min of recovery pace (about 9:00 pace). So that means each interval is 5 min. a) I'm jealous you are hauling so easily at a 6:15 pace. This reinforces in my mind the fact that I need some help with my running. b) My general thought is that your interval should be more like 1/4 rather than 3/2. I've been doing 5 minute "pick-ups" recently but the fast part is generally only 30-40 seconds long. I don't watch my pace THAT closely but I'm guessing it's more like 7:30 tempo, then 8:30 recovery pace. I did this workout last night in fact - 60 minutes total with a 10 min WU, and 5 min CD, intervals every 5 minutes inbetween. c) If you're totally gassed at the end of these workouts, I'd definitely slow down the fast part of the interval, and increase the number of intervals. This would train your legs more for endurance than fast-twitch 5 or 10k stuff, but still give you that second gear when you want to avoid getting chicked. Just my humble opinion... |
| 2011-01-20 4:39 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Holy post explosion. Is everybody bored at work or something? My workout today was a 1 hr bike with 2/3 of that being at threshold watts. It was very, very tough but I felt pretty darn good the entire time. So to touch on questions/comments: @Dan-----nice job working in your HR zones. As you get more comfortable in your target race HR zone start to mix in 5-10'/hr of Z3/Z4 work (1',2', 5' intervals, even several 30sec is good) @Jerry---have you determined your FTP? That is critical to power training. If you did, how did you test and what was the result? @Dave---I don't see any problem breaking up the workouts. Last year I did several broken long runs (2 a days and a few 3 a days) just b/c life interfered and I wanted to get the mileage in. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. @Jennifer------welcome back. I thought maybe you went somewhere else. RPE is great but I would strongly recommend a cheapie HR monitor. You can get them all over the place. I've seen them at Target, Walmart etc. You don't need anything fancy at all. Just something that gives you a HR number and maybe a timer. Polar, Timex and Garmin are good brands. It seems like most people use HR so if you are interested in buying one and opinions I would post that to this group. Just my opinion. @Brien----welcome back to health! @Radar----did we ever get a first name for you. My opinion on spin classes is that they are better than nothing. Spin class/trainer---- I prefer trainer. Ultimately go to/use what will keep you cycling through the winter. If you are so bored on the trainer that you don't use it then that's a problem. If not, trainer is the better choice b/c you do the training that YOU need to do on the bike that you will race and in the position in which you hope to race. I strongly recommend a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. They are expensive but they are worth it. The ride quality is night and day to a cheapie trainer. Been there, done that. @Cody----I like the answers that Dan and Dave gave you. For me, I've always used increase mileage to increase my speed. During IM training I run 40-50mpw at about 7:40. When I run a HIM in the middle of this training I can usually do 1:28 ish. So for me, many miles at a slower pace increases my ability to run fast. I'm doing actual speedwork for the first time and am basically just doing 4-6 1 mile repeats with 1 minute rest in between. This group is really coming on strong now! Keep up the interaction. Everybody has different experiences and methods so please share. Jamie Edited by jamiej 2011-01-20 4:50 PM |
| 2011-01-20 4:40 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Extreme Veteran 605 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED Ok...how about what bike to ride on the trainer? I've got a roadie and a tri bike. I'm leaning towards the tri bike. I mean why would I train on a different bike than I'd race on? On the other hand, a guy I work with who does tris is telling me to be careful so I don't wear it out. Not that I'm ever going to get over this cold, but if I did... :P See my logs on the whole health issue...argh....patience Edited by syscrash 2011-01-20 4:42 PM |
| 2011-01-20 4:42 PM in reply to: #3271048 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED This is a repost but this a book that I highly recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-2nd-Jack/dp/073605492... It covers speed work and has plans for 5K, 10K, 13.1 and 26.2. Run focussed but easily applicable to triathlon. Also, he uses training on pace not HR. Everything is in there to determine your paces. Jamie |
| 2011-01-20 4:47 PM in reply to: #3312061 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED syscrash - 2011-01-20 5:40 PM Ok...how about what bike to ride on the trainer? I've got a roadie and a tri bike. I'm leaning towards the tri bike. I mean why would I train on a different bike than I'd race on? On the other hand, a guy I work with who does tris is telling me to be careful so I don't wear it out. Not that I'm ever going to get over this cold, but if I did... :P See my logs on the whole health issue...argh....patience I have my race bike on the trainer. I have it on there every day and train on the trainer for every ride. I haven't 'worn it out' yet. Train like you race. On TT bike in aero position. There are a few precautions that I do take b/c sweat is corrosive. I wrap saran wrap around the headset and wrap a towel around my top tube and secure it with tape. After the ride I dry the bike off and take the tension off of the rear wheel. You can buy what is called a 'bike bra'. I did and didn't like it. I use towels. I can take them off and wash them any time. Just easier for me. You will wear down your rear tire. There is no question about that. Just use an old one that you have around the house, by a dedicated trainer tire or buy a cheapie tire to use on the trainer. If anything, it will get you really used to taking off and changing your rear wheel/tire. Jamie |
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