jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training (Page 7)

Hey guys, since I have already been welcomed into the this awesome group, I won't wait any longer to formally introduce myself..

Name: Savage8778 (Nick)

Location: Jacksonville, Florida (originally from south Florida area).

About Me: 26 year old, graduate student at University of North Florida. Engaged to my best friend, Melissa (to be married in November 2011), and we have a rescue dog, Baxter (Lab/Pitbull mix) who is absolutely spoiled.

Growing up I was always overweight, some years more-so than others. I was active, I just had a clutch for food. I felt as if alot of times growing my weight really hindered me from doing things I wanted to accomplish. I have always loved surfing and competed for many years, however got burnt out on the subjectivity of surf contests.

I got involved in Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu about 5-6 years ago, and I began to drastically lose weight. So much so, that I actually wasn't being recognized by friends and family.

(I have a few longer, more insightful blog entries at my blog, fatfittri.blogspot.com if you are interested).

I ended up injuring myself last August (2010) pretty severely, and decided my time in the MMA world was over, at least not worth it at this current time.

In March 2010, I decided rather last minute (< 3 weeks) that I was going to run a road race in town (Gate River Run), to see if I could do it. I felt like I was in decent shape at this point, I had gone from 240 pounds to around 170 at the time (I am now between 160-165), and was beginning to somewhat enjoy running.

Long story made short, I had a blast in that race and left me wanting more.

The next race I ran was a 1/2 marathon (Race to finish breast cancer, Jacksonville, Florida), and I also decided rather last minute to do this race (<6 weeks), yet I still did a great race even though it was freezing.

After this race, I started to look into triathlons, after watching a few videos online and reading some different short stories about race experiences. I already swam (I love OWS), and I actually was enjoying running.

So here I am...

Goals: I want to complete a full Ironman, but I believe my best distance would be a HIM. I am set to complete three Sprint Tris (first one in less than a week, May 7th), and I am really excited about these. I joined a local club, Hammerhead Triathlon Club, and I will be doing their Olympic distance race in August as well. After that, I really would love to do a HIM around October, however I can't seem to find a good race in the general area around here. I can't travel too much with school and work at this point, and unfortunately Ironman Florida: Panama City is on the date I am getting married. I don't think I can wait until early 2012. My training feels great so far, but I am having problems with nutrition, as well as not driving my fiance insane. I don't really have too many other friends to talk to about Tris, so I figured a group like this would help.

Weight: 160-165 at 5'9", I feel pretty good. My body composition has started to change to a more leaner version, so the weight will go down more I am sure.

Race(s): Gate River Run 15k 2010: 1:27:55

Breast Cancer 1/2 Marathon: 1:59:40

Gate River Run 2011: 1:12:57

Scheduled: Beaches Fine Arts Sprint Triathlon Event 1 May 7th

BFAST event 2 June 11th

BFAST Event 3 July 9th

Hammerhead Olympic Tri August 21st (I think).

In closing, I have been really impressed with everyone in the group. I think together we are going to conquer our respective goals.

Right now I am just winging it. I run when I can and try to get a few bike rides in each week.  I use a few master swim classes at my gym for my swim training. As of late I have not been going and need to get back into that habit.

The first week of June I will be starting a beginner HIM training program that uses RPE for my training. I went through the program and tweeked it to my schedule. I don't excercise on Sunday and had to move workouts around to fit that schedule. I will not be doing any of the swim workouts in the plan except OWS that lead into a bike ride. I will be going to two master swim classes each week and figure that will have to do for the swim. Other than that I am going to try and follow the plan as best I can.

I don't do any strength training and notice alot of you have that as part of your training. Should I be doing strength training? I try and ride hills alot since the courses I race are very hilly, does that count as strength training?

I am the same way, I have been having a problem fitting strength training into my schedule. I really do enjoy it. My base was an interval/circuit training base with plyometrics and explosive movements mixed in. When I started training to do Tris, this base really helped me adapt I felt. I normally do a day of full-body free weights, and another session of my dynamic movements (focusing on balance and core work) with the TRX suspension trainer...my favorite piece of equipment ever.

Name: James

Story: I am 21 at university studying medicine in Manchester, England. I have always been in quite good shape playing squash, tennis, going to the gym etc. Got into running summer 2010 as I had put on weight after my first year of university. Did a half marathon last april but then got ITB (runner's knee). Decided to swim and bike instead and then got back to running again. 

Decided to do a sprint last september which failed with a puncture but it gave me the triathlon 'buzz' straight off. Unfortunately this was the last of the season. 

I did my first sprint tri last weekend which I have logged on my training log. I am very new to the sport but am loving the mix of all three sports. 

This is my first season of triathlon and I just want to learn as much as I can from everyone. My main flaw is forming a structured training plan and especially swimming which I hope I will get some tips on.

Family status: none. I love with other students

Current training: I try to swim, bike and run 3 times a week with an aim of a long session, medium session and interval of each but find don't always manage as it is difficult to do this with commitments at university. 

Races: I did a sprint last week. It was 500m swim, 20k bike, 5k run. Did it in 1hr 6mins 51secs and have another one at the end of the month.

Did a half marathon last year in 1hr 31mins 10 secs

I am doing a half marathon in september.

I want to do some olympics but am unsure about openwater swimming with regards to wetsuits and cost.

Weight: 70kg give or take. I am slim.

Goals:

Complete an olympic tri

Generally improve my training

I already have two questions;

Firstly - last weekend on my sprint tri, I only managed a 5k time of 21:25. My normal is 19:00. Any tips to improve this?

Secondly - after doing some reading I realise my swimming stroke rate is too slow and I need to start breathing bilaterally. I have bought a tempo trainer for the stroke rate but tried breathing bilaterally today and I am awful at breathing to my right. Any tips?

James, I'll let the experts chime in, but bilateral breathing was very difficult for me....it just took practice,practice,practice. Don't push it...relax and swim slowly.

Debbie

Yes, I think Randy is correct and we should close the group.  It's official, we're stuck with each other for the coming months!

Randy and I want to make this group a friendly place to ask questions, give advice and share our training with each other.  That being said, Randy and I don't know everything and we need your help.  Please don't be afraid to answer questions with what you know from what you've heard, read or experienced.  One pretty constant rule in triathlon training is there is no single approach to any problem, no one right answer nor does what works for one person work for everyone.  So if multiple people can offer their advice/experience we can all gain from the shared knowledge.

We'd like to limit group discussions to 1 or 2 at a time (not including daily training updates, reports etc).  That way it is much easier to follow the discussion and make it valuable.  If a particular topic doesn't interest you, feel free to suggest the next.  I'll admit, we borrowed this approach from the group we were in as mentees during the last program, but it worked very well.  Also, don't worry if you don't post as often or are able to keep up-to-date with the group constantly.  Check in when you can and even if you have to be away for a little bit you're always welcome back to ask questions and share.

Randy - please correct me if I've mispoken on anything or add if I've forgotten anything.

Welcome!  Sorry to hear about the ankle.  Is there anything you can do while it heals?  Swim?  Maybe a little strength (if that is something you want to do)?  Anything to keep from stopping everything (even if its not tri specific training) can be a very good thing.  I've been kept out of running for two weeks, but now feel able to bike and swim, so getting off the couch, even if I can't be 100% is definitely a plus!

Welcome!  Glad we have some international representation!  Some wedding, eh? (Well, so I hear from my fiancee...I missed it).

First of - nice first tri!  That time is impressive.  A general rule is that your triathlon pace will be about 10% slower than your open pace.  Another "rule" is that your 5k triathlon pace will be about the same as your 10k open pace (or more generally, the tri pace will be about the same as the pace you can run double the distance).  Those are just targets though and your individual body and other strengths will also dictate.  The only good suggestion I have to get your run faster is to train to run faster...you're tri time is pretty close to that 10% slower.  Simply training more and experience will also help minimize that difference.  Experimenting with bricks will help you know if you are biking too hard (which can cause big problems on the run, especially as the distances get longer).

Swimming bilaterally - I have a friend who is a coach and a really fast swimmer who told me this.  If you are swimming faster than a leisurely pace, breath every stroke.  But be able to switch from breathing to the right and left as necessary to help sighting or if your stroke is causing injury (I was stressing my shoulder while breathing, so being able to switch to breathing to the other side would have helped let that heal while continuing to swim).  As i just alluded to, I only breath to one side.  THis is a "do as I say, not as I do" type argument I'm making .  I wish I had the discipline to practice it (which is really all it takes) but I'm so bad that I give up on it too early every time I try.  What he has tried to get me to do to learn is to only look at one wall while swimming laps - so breathing to the "easy" side one way and the "hard" side the other.  Forces you to do it a lot, but gives you a little recovery from it as well.

Getting out and doing anything would be good...as such I am going to go lift for the first time in a couple weeks.

The doctor didn't offer much other than some simple range of motion exercises. I've been tracing the alphabet out with my big toe a couple times a day, it's about all I can do right now.  The last time I swam, maybe a week ago?, it was fairly uncomfortable so I stopped.

~adam

I'll share my experiences with plans, etc.

I started "winging it".  I'd do a few workouts a week, no plan, no goal, no idea what I was doing.  Luckily, I didn't hurt myself and improved a bit.  I did pretty well but was so astounded by how everyone was so much faster than me.  My only idea was to get a coach.  I learned then about plans...and have been using them ever since.  First was was the coach's plan, then I found BT and it was BT plans (which served me very well).  Now I went back to the coach and we developed a custom training plan together (so not really a full coaching package, but tweaked to fit my needs and goals).  The number one thing that got me faster was consistency though.  What I was doing exactly didn't really matter much, but just doing it consistently made me faster.  Once you plateau, the exact details of the workouts and plan start to matter much more, trying to eek out every bit of speed you can muster.  For example, last year, I was running between 80-100 miles a month.  From sept to January, I just ran a lot.  No speed, no real structure, but did it a LOT.  Up until this month (health affected me), I've run between 150 and 180 miles a month (adding speed and intervals back in for Feb/March).  I can't even say I'm the same runner as when I started.  The paces I run were my dream paces last year.  All from just consistant training.

I embraced data early by training with HR monitor and gps for speed/pace.  It has really helped me learn to not over or under do the workout.  I now train with power on the bike and a combo of HR/pace while running.  I've read a few books and really like 2 from Dr. Skiba (Scientific Training For Triathletes and The Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power).  He explains the science behind your body and what training is doing to it, backed up with real scientific studies and literature.  I really like that.

I also changed my view on strength training based on his books, I used to do it quite consistently.  Basically, he found that the literature tended to suggest strength training did NOT help swim/bike/run by a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio.  I've cut it out completely based on that and just a lack of time.  I don't dislike it, and probably would continue if I had the time.  However, I'm not sure it's the most efficient use of MY time.  Your goals and needs may be different than mine and I think it does have an important place in the training plan of many athletes.  I just think that more often than not that the best way to swim, bike and run faster is to spend more time swimming, biking and running (and less time doing it while fatigued from a strength training session).

What do you guys think? 

Completely understand...waiting an extra week to heal is much better than trying to get back too early and delaying it a few extra weeks.

Jumping in on the strength discussion (sorry for the LENGTHY response but I feel like it might help some peeps).

I got injured in October while training for a 10-miler. I was following the Hal Higdon intermediate training plan, and skipping the strength days because I thought if my time was limited I was better off doing the endurance training.

Then I got an overuse injury one week before the 10-miler. I spent two months in PT twice per week and feel like I learned a TON about strength training - it's not only about power lifting!  

During my first appointment, my PT evaluated certain muscles that support my running form and found major weaknesses and imbalances in my glutes and hips. He was kind of surprised that I was able to run 10 miles with such big imbalances and said the problem with runners and other endurance athletes is that we think our cardio workout is our workout. (Which is exactly what I thought. If my plan said run 3 miles, I ran three miles and that was it.) The reality is, we have to build up our muscles and prepare our bodies for the workout so we don't get tired and start compensating for weaknesses - - that can lead to injury. 

The strength training I've incorporated is not weights based. (Though I do use weights for some of the exercises.) Here are a few examples:

- Bridges - normal
- Single-leg bridges
- Bridges using the exercise ball
- Single-leg bridges with resistance bands and a kick to the side
- "Monster walk" - (Sideways walk with resistance around your feet)
- "Clamshells" - Uses resistance around your knees to strengthen your hips and glutes and helps control rotation
- Squats against a wall using a big exercise ball behind my back and a small one or pilates ring between my knees
- Single leg 'squat' with support
- Single leg deadlifts with kickback, using cable resistance  
- Push-ups
- Leg lifts
- Leg kicks (single leg balance) with resistance 

Etc., you get the idea. I use different strength resistance bands for these exercises, which you can get at any PT place. 

I thought the tri training would help me hit the key muscle groups (for instance, swim kicking should help the glutes) but it wasn't doing enough for me. The first time I did a hip/glutes/core routine, it felt like my hips were on FIRE. Now they're easier, but still difficult after 5 months. My muscle imbalances aren't perfect yet, but I'm getting better. 

I asked my PT about using weight machines at the gym and he said that resistance with bands can be better for people like me (especially women) because they incorporate rotation and the machines don't.  

Now, if you're trying to gain a lot of muscle mass, obviously this approach wouldn't be a good one. But for people looking to build a fitness base, I'm going to say that 2 sessions per week of 25 to 30 minutes with resistance bands could be good injury prevention for you. The nice thing is, you can mostly do it at home while watching TV or chatting with your spouse or whatever. I have a little mini gym in front of my TV so I can watch shows and sports with the man-friend but still get my strength in. It works quite well! 

Do you find 10-20 min of stretching a day is enough? Do you do it right after a workout, or just whenever you have the time?

My plan was to swim and run today, but my son has a fever so I can't take him to the gym with me.  Going to try to get a bike in while he naps. 

Hope everyone has a good Monday.

Good Morning!  How was everyone's weekend?  I had a long one (work 9 hour days to get every other Friday off) and we had our homecoming/alumni weekend so I saw some old friends and had a great time.

What's on tap for today?  I'm planning to get on the bike outside for the first time since the vertigo started to see if I can handle it.  I'm gonna bike around the Army post I'm on after work.  My fiancee convinced me it would be smarter to do it here before riding my normal routes so if something happens I'm close to people and my car instead of miles and miles away.  It's pretty flat which makes it good for some intervals (though boring) but the police are VERY strict and will not hesitate to give traffic violations to bikers so it makes long steady intervals a little tough. 

After that I'm meeting up with my fiancee at Bed Bath and Beyond to continue adding to our registry.  Surprisingly, I don't mind that...give me the scan gun and I go crazy.  My fiancee gets a little annoyed since she has to go back afterwards and take off all the ridiculous stuff I added when she wasn't looking.

Nicole - good suggestion, sometimes I put the cart before the horse, so to speak.  I will do some digging because I really like the way Dr. Skiba explains the theory/terminology/etc of HR training and he has some stuff written up on the web.  There are also some really good resouces here on BT (There is a thread by Mike Ricci about HR training and why 220-age is NOT a good formula for instance) that we can discuss.  Stay tuned.

I generally avoid stretching anytime I'm "cold".  I have read that static streatching can actually be damaging if your muscles aren't "warm".  Static meaning those "reach and hold" type streches.  However, dynamic stretches (ones you do while moving, swinging arms in circles for instance) are a good way to loosen up.  Ideally, we would start a workout, warm up for 5-10 minutes, stop for our battery of streches, then continue on.  I don't know anyone who does that though.  I've been fine with just streching after a workout.  I do that religiously, as I really think it helps eliminate some soreness/tightness that may linger after a long or hard workout.  I know some people never strech and are fine and some people who strech all the time and still have tightness though, so it's a very individual thing.