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2010-08-02 4:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
DirkP - 2010-08-02 12:09 PM
tri808 - 2010-08-02 3:22 PM

I was pretty ticked off though because my garmin 500 inexplicably deleted the entire ride from it's memory.  So I have no power data which would have been awesome to review.  I suppose that means I'll have to do the ride again to see the data.


I don't know anything about the Garmin 500 but I have "lost" training sessions and later found them in the multi sport section of the log.  It hasn't happened but a couple of times but I freak out when it does.  What I don't like about it is that I can't put the workouts where they need to go after I do figure out where they are.



I'm pretty sure it's gone.  The 500 is only a cycling computer, so it doesn't have a multi sport mode.

It also operates as a USB storage device...just like a thumb drive.  So I searched in the actual device through every folder and could not find the file.

I think what happened is I stopped the timer when I was done...but did not hit the reset button to finalize the ride.  Normally I don't need to do this if I manually power down the device...but I think it may have gotten erased because I let it auto-power down (it turns off after 15 minutes of inactivity).  So I think the combination of not reseting the workout and the auto-power down may have been the issue.

Yesterday's ride was sucessfully saved.


2010-08-02 7:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-03 12:43 AM So we've got a problem.  We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday.  swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course.  My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache.  Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse.  I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away.  I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain.  They are still sore today.  Is this classic dehydration or what?  I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run.  I only made it 6.2 miles of the run.  I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.


Was your stomach cramping or were your abs cramping?   If no nausea, sounds maybe like your abs and you're not used to working them for 4+ hours?     
2010-08-02 7:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
tri808 - 2010-08-03 4:22 AM So just when I thought I started to like climbing hills...my Saturday group ride introduced me to Satan himself.

The whole ride, I had no idea we were going to climb 2 new ridges (hill is an understatement) near the end of our ride.  The first climb was about 2 miles long, 9.11% average grade with a max grade of 18%, and 1085 total feet of climbing.
The second climb was a little uner 3 miles long, 8.14% average grade with a max of 18%, and 1220 total feet of climbing.  What made things even tougher was the 15-25 mph winds that were in our face on both climbs.

I told my coworker about this ride and he didn't believe me.  He said his wife's good friend lives at the top of one of those ridges and he has a hard tim DRIVING up those hills.  Literally his van can barely make it up there.

I was pretty ticked off though because my garmin 500 inexplicably deleted the entire ride from it's memory.  So I have no power data which would have been awesome to review.  I suppose that means I'll have to do the ride again to see the data.


Wow!  A couple hundred meters at 10-12% and I'm cooked.  I definitely need to spend more time on the hills. 
2010-08-02 8:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
dcon - 2010-08-02 8:52 PM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-03 12:43 AM So we've got a problem.  We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday.  swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course.  My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache.  Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse.  I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away.  I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain.  They are still sore today.  Is this classic dehydration or what?  I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run.  I only made it 6.2 miles of the run.  I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.


Was your stomach cramping or were your abs cramping?   If no nausea, sounds maybe like your abs and you're not used to working them for 4+ hours?     


Nope...not nausua.  I'm not sure about working them for that period of time.  I just can't figure it out.  I wasn't tired and had enough energy, just the headache and cramps....who knows. 
2010-08-02 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:20 PM
dcon - 2010-08-02 8:52 PM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-03 12:43 AM So we've got a problem.  We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday.  swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course.  My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache.  Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse.  I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away.  I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain.  They are still sore today.  Is this classic dehydration or what?  I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run.  I only made it 6.2 miles of the run.  I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.


Was your stomach cramping or were your abs cramping?   If no nausea, sounds maybe like your abs and you're not used to working them for 4+ hours?     


Nope...not nausua.  I'm not sure about working them for that period of time.  I just can't figure it out.  I wasn't tired and had enough energy, just the headache and cramps....who knows. 
I was thinking the dehydration mainly, but I usually don't get the headaches for several hours after a workout that I have been low on fluids.  Cramps are usually, for me, the early sign that I need more fluid.


2010-08-02 11:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Just got back to Vegas.

Jonathan- Sounds like dehydration and I'm saying this because I got wicked headaches and side cramps when I was pregnant and the only way to keep them away was by drinking massive amounts of water. I used to carry around a gallon jug of water that I kept refilling. No joke.

J- Hill climbing sucks while you're doing it, but isn't it so satisfying afterwards?

Joe- Congrats again!

Dirk- Great race. Great kids. You give me hope that my kids will still be fun when they're teenagers. My 2 year old watched my last 5K and got really into it. He loved the big timer at the finish line and all the "really fast people".


2010-08-03 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Dirk,  I was thinking the same thing....maybe I'm just affected sooner by the lack of water??

JP, are you saying I may be pregnant?  haha, JK, what I need to do is figure out how much water I can take in without making it slosh around in my stomach.  I feel like I process fluid extremely quick.  If I drink a bottle of water, I will have to pee like fifteen minutes later.  It's sort of a fine line between enough water not to make my head pound and too much that makes me have to go to the bathroom all the time.  Super annoying.
2010-08-03 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-03 11:34 AM Dirk,  I was thinking the same thing....maybe I'm just affected sooner by the lack of water??

JP, are you saying I may be pregnant?  haha, JK, what I need to do is figure out how much water I can take in without making it slosh around in my stomach.  I feel like I process fluid extremely quick.  If I drink a bottle of water, I will have to pee like fifteen minutes later.  It's sort of a fine line between enough water not to make my head pound and too much that makes me have to go to the bathroom all the time.  Super annoying.


Try taking in some other nutrition while on the bike.  Something like a clif bar or something.  Whatever you think your stomach can hold while exerting yourself.  I have the type of system that I can do about anything while exercising.  The sloshing around you are talking about sounds like your stomach is empty.  I can experience the same 15 minutes of water to toilet like you but only if I don't have enough food in my stomach.  Make sure you have some decent protein before you leave for a long workout but not a large quantity of food.  I won't go out for a hard/long workout without eating something first.
2010-08-03 5:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jsiegs - 2010-07-31 11:33 AM
DirkP - 2010-07-30 12:19 PMI am getting things ready for our mini-vacation/long weekend camping trip and my Oly this Sunday.  I am going to see if I can cut close to 5 minutes from my overall finishing time from my last race in June.  I know I can cut some time if I do nothing more than not screw around in T1 and I may try yo hit the bike a touch harder.  My run is what concerns me a little bit.  I would like to get my pace down to around 7:30 miles from a 7:48 avg.  This will obviously be more difficult to accomplish since my first race I kept trying to speed up but my body said "I don't think so."

I'll have limited access to internet so I'll post something when I get a chance.

Good luck! We'll see who has the faster run splits .


Okay Joe, You win this round but wait about 15-20 years and then we'll compare times for the same age.  Right now thats my only chance at taking you on the run, it looks like.  It' kinda funny because I was actually thinking about this while I was racing on Sunday.  When is the HM you are planning to run? 
2010-08-03 11:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:43 AM

So we've got a problem. We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday. swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course. My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache. Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse. I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away. I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain. They are still sore today. Is this classic dehydration or what? I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run. I only made it 6.2 miles of the run. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.


how hot was it? how long/hard was the ride?
knowing that would help clear up a lot of other things that it probably was not. (no other health issues right now?)
2010-08-03 11:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
sorry i have been out of the loop so much in the last two days., training has been keeping me either busy or flat on the floor. jsut over 170 miles in the last two rides (sun and today) plus swim/run stuff has been nuts.


speaking of climbing, this was one of my favorite climbs out in boulder (i lived 3 miles from the base of it).

http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com/ViewTrip/165916

7 mile climb with the bottom and top parts at 12-14% with a bit near the top even higher.

here is the view from the first hairpin turn (about .5 miles into the climb)
http://image05.webshots.com/5/7/43/92/79574392iqIcSK_fs.jpg

and the view from the summit:
http://www.hillhaus.com/photos/2006.05.05.Flagstaff/Flagstaff01.jpg


2010-08-04 2:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Did not write a RR for my 5K but wrote about it in my blog. For those interested, you can click on the link in my signature
2010-08-04 8:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
newbz - 2010-08-04 12:33 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:43 AM So we've got a problem. We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday. swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course. My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache. Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse. I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away. I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain. They are still sore today. Is this classic dehydration or what? I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run. I only made it 6.2 miles of the run. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.
how hot was it? how long/hard was the ride? knowing that would help clear up a lot of other things that it probably was not. (no other health issues right now?)


About 56 miles, temp. around mid to upper 70's, ride wasn't that hard.  First half of the ride was relatively easy.  Correct - No other health issues right now.
2010-08-04 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jpbis26 - 2010-08-04 3:12 AM Did not write a RR for my 5K but wrote about it in my blog. For those interested, you can click on the link in my signature


Nice race!  Way to push all the way to the end.   As other on here have said, 5k's are about pain management.  You ran a very nice race and there will be many more PR's coming for you.
BTW, I thought it was nice that you waited for your dad until he told you to kick it.  I hope my girls will race with me someday.  Only if they do I'll be the one to have to wait on them...........I hope.

2010-08-04 9:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
A racing side note: I found out after my race that the modifies bike course for my oly last Sunday was shorter than the 40k usual.  they had to change the course due to construction and the new distance was 23.5 miles.  Then they didn't adjust the distance for the computer to adjust the times.  So, my 21.9 mph avg. is incorrect but I am still pleased.  My new avg. would be 20.5 which I am still happy with.  When I saw the 21.9, I felt like something was wrong because I didn't think I could go that fast in those conditions on a road bike.

2010-08-04 9:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
DirkP - 2010-08-04 10:09 AM A racing side note: I found out after my race that the modifies bike course for my oly last Sunday was shorter than the 40k usual.  they had to change the course due to construction and the new distance was 23.5 miles.  Then they didn't adjust the distance for the computer to adjust the times.  So, my 21.9 mph avg. is incorrect but I am still pleased.  My new avg. would be 20.5 which I am still happy with.  When I saw the 21.9, I felt like something was wrong because I didn't think I could go that fast in those conditions on a road bike.



I still say good job.  I always baffles me how innaccurate race course distances are.  It's tough because you want to compare your times and there's essentially no way to do that if race A's 1/3 mile swim is shorter than Race B's 1/3 mile swim or what-have-you.


2010-08-04 9:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-04 7:41 AM

newbz - 2010-08-04 12:33 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:43 AM So we've got a problem. We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday. swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course. My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache. Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse. I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away. I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain. They are still sore today. Is this classic dehydration or what? I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run. I only made it 6.2 miles of the run. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.
how hot was it? how long/hard was the ride? knowing that would help clear up a lot of other things that it probably was not. (no other health issues right now?)


About 56 miles, temp. around mid to upper 70's, ride wasn't that hard. First half of the ride was relatively easy. Correct - No other health issues right now.


my thoughts would be the headache was prob due to either over heating/dehydration/lack of cal (assuming you just didn't have a bug or something).

the cramping i wopuld almost 100% blame on either starting too hard off the bike/things sloshing in your stomach.
2010-08-04 9:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Dirk- Thanks. My dad used to average between a 6:30-7 minute mile during his 10ks when he was my age, so I know going so slow now must be frustrating, but he did finish without having to walk at all which was his only goal for this race.

20.5mph is awesome! Like I told newbz, I only go that fast down a hill, so anything over 15 is impressive to me.
2010-08-04 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
DirkP - 2010-08-01 10:10 PM RR is up.  I was somewhat pleased by my overall results.  If I had my wetsuit with me I would have moved up at least 15 places but it wasn't to be.  I know I did well, especially on the bike, but it is really the swim that I am having trouble settling up with.

Enjoy the read

Edit: What I enjoyed most about this race was the family participation that came to support me.  I had all of my family there to literally yelling at me and coaching me through the whole race.  My oldest daughter was giving me some signals to get long through the swim leg (they could walk the whole course next to the canal).  Her signals helped me remember to try to stick to my form even though I was tired.  My girls made special shirts up to wear for the race that were pretty funny and showed support for me.  I will post pics when I get home and can remember how to do it.  It was nice to know they enjoyed being there with me.



Here is the pic of my daughters special T shirts.  They were a surprise to me and a lot of fun.  They got a lot of comments from the other athletes and their families.  The girl in the middle is not my real daughter but she spends so much time with us that we call her one of our own and act as her parents to many degrees.


Edited by DirkP 2010-08-04 11:13 AM




(Tri Indy Oly 2010 Shirts.jpg)



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Tri Indy Oly 2010 Shirts.jpg (87KB - 2 downloads)
2010-08-04 11:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
newbz - 2010-08-04 10:39 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-04 7:41 AM
newbz - 2010-08-04 12:33 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:43 AM So we've got a problem. We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday. swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course. My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache. Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse. I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away. I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain. They are still sore today. Is this classic dehydration or what? I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run. I only made it 6.2 miles of the run. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.
how hot was it? how long/hard was the ride? knowing that would help clear up a lot of other things that it probably was not. (no other health issues right now?)


About 56 miles, temp. around mid to upper 70's, ride wasn't that hard. First half of the ride was relatively easy. Correct - No other health issues right now.
my thoughts would be the headache was prob due to either over heating/dehydration/lack of cal (assuming you just didn't have a bug or something). the cramping i wopuld almost 100% blame on either starting too hard off the bike/things sloshing in your stomach.


How much should I be experimenting with stuff like nutrition at this point? 

You're probably right about starting too fast off the bike, but why am I getting stomach muscle cramps?  Why not leg cramps or something like that?

Dirk, those t-shirts are hilarious.  Sounds like you have a great family.
2010-08-04 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Dirk- I like the "Hooker" t-shirt. Very funny.


2010-08-04 12:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jpbis26 - 2010-08-04 3:12 AM Did not write a RR for my 5K but wrote about it in my blog. For those interested, you can click on the link in my signature


Great entry.  And great job on the 5K!
2010-08-04 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-04 10:46 AM

newbz - 2010-08-04 10:39 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-04 7:41 AM
newbz - 2010-08-04 12:33 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2010-08-02 9:43 AM So we've got a problem. We did the HIM course for Timberman yesterday. swim is great, nice and clear cool water, bike is fine, some big hills, but overall nice course. My problem is that every time I have a long hard workout I end up with a headache. Yesterday, I got off the bike and had a slight headache, then after about 1.5 miles, it was worse. I got a bad cramp in both sides of my stomach, sort of external oblique area and it would go away. I could run no faster than a 10 minute mile without hunching over in pain. They are still sore today. Is this classic dehydration or what? I drank 2.5 bottles of infinit and a bottle of water on the bike and three 6 oz bottles of water from my belt on the run. I only made it 6.2 miles of the run. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the run portion due to this.
how hot was it? how long/hard was the ride? knowing that would help clear up a lot of other things that it probably was not. (no other health issues right now?)


About 56 miles, temp. around mid to upper 70's, ride wasn't that hard. First half of the ride was relatively easy. Correct - No other health issues right now.
my thoughts would be the headache was prob due to either over heating/dehydration/lack of cal (assuming you just didn't have a bug or something). the cramping i wopuld almost 100% blame on either starting too hard off the bike/things sloshing in your stomach.


How much should I be experimenting with stuff like nutrition at this point?

You're probably right about starting too fast off the bike, but why am I getting stomach muscle cramps? Why not leg cramps or something like that?

Dirk, those t-shirts are hilarious. Sounds like you have a great family.


HR and breathing much harder.

I would almost promise you if you did the ride again, but backed off a bit in the last 5 min + started the first mile of the run 20+ sec slower than goal pace, you'd be fine within a mile.

EVERY single time i have biked too hard, or started teh run too fast for current fitness, WHAM, debilitating side cramps.

its mainly due to the very high HR combined with shifting position (bike to run) + things sloshing around which adds to the tug and pull on stomach/abs.
2010-08-04 5:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
I'm incorporating running back into my training again.  Starting with some 4 mile easy runs this week and play it by feel going forward.  Still deciding if I want to run a December marathon.

I'm not quite where I want to be base wise, but I feel much stronger than I was at this point last year so we'll see.  I outlined a 18 week program that should get me up to 38 mpw overall and 48 mpw from weeks 12-16.  Last year I think I was about 33 mpw overall and 41 mpw during weeks 12-16. 

I hope it's not too aggressvie...but at least I'm familiar with the signs of overtraining...so I should be able to back off before causing serious injury.  I have no problems with ditching the whole marathon if things don't work out.

Running is my weakness...and I figure another marathon is a good way to commit myself to putting in the much needed miles this fall/winter.

2010-08-04 7:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!!
Okay...cool.  That makes total sense David.  Thanks a bunch!  I will try this next time for sure.  And you're right, I did go out harder than normal.
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