Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 78)

JeffY - 2013-03-06 9:33 AM

I hope this isn't too narcissistic, but I would like to describe some of my recent training experiences.

Monday began well with a great swim practice and 6 mile run.  Weights at lunch.  Then another 6 after work.  But during that 2nd run my achilles (both) were flaring up and the discomfort increased throughout the run leaving me a bit hobbled afterwards.  They bothered me all night and were pretty bad the next morning.  I was prepared for a terrible day.

Tuesday didn't turn out as bad as I expected.  They loosened up nicely within minutes of getting out of bed and felt actually very good on my 5 mile run paired with cycling.  During my weight lifting I did chest and have lately been limiting my heaviest set of dumbbell presses to the 50lb pair.  The early sets with 30lbs feel weird with disconcerting popping in the shoulder.  40lbs is a little better.  50lbs is better yet.  I am not sure why it gets better with heavier weight, but it does.  I will assume the weight presses the shoulder in to a good position.  This time I did 60lb dumbbells and it felt even better.  So on a whim I tried the 70lb dumbbells and they felt perfect!  Shoulder felt healthier than ever when loaded with that weight.  Finished off my chest day with 100 pain free pushups.

This morning I woke up to something weird.  the first time in about 2 years my right achilles didn't have even a bit of tenderness when I got out of bed.  The left one did but was better than I remember.  After a mile of swimming I did a 10 mile run eventually easing up to an 8:00 pace.  Feels great!!!

Why are the achilles suddenly making promising improvements?  I will throw out my theory later.  Right now I need to get to work.

wbayek - 2013-03-06 10:58 AM

While we're on the weight training topic, and maybe related to Samantha's current track:

I hope this makes sense. Given I am not doing any bike racing I am not really interested in my max 10 second power output, aka max power.  Also given my biking this year will all be of the 56 mile TT version, I am very interested in my sustainable power output over a 2 ½ hour time frame.  So given at 90 rpm that translates to 13,500 pedal strokes, is it advantageous, physiologically, to increase my max leg strength?  In other words, should I do some “heavy” weight training for the legs with the assumption that all boats rise with the tide, even the long endurance capabilities, or is riding long enough specific leg strength training?

Google is proving to have a lot of conflicting advice/evidence.  What think you all?

trigal38 - 2013-03-06 11:56 AM

I'm interested in the replies to this also. One of the videos I did this morning had us doing 10 sec high intensity (as in 100% or go home) efforts then 50 sec in the small ring to recover. 2 sets of 6 reps for this video. It felt like a waste of time to me because it probably took me 5 sec just to get to 100%!

RunningYogini - 2013-03-06 12:22 PM

I have a bike question for Jeff (and any other bike gurus).  I'm looking into getting a new road bike.  I'm going to stick with a carbon Felt.  My tri bike fits like a glove.  It is oh so perfect.  My road bike has always seemed just a little off.  On the road bike, I always want to push myself back on the saddle but then my hands are not on the hoods.  When my hands are on the hoods or drops, I don't have as much power.  A shorter stem just made my upper body feel cramped.  I have my suspicions but I'd like someone to give their two cents.

Here are some specifics:

• Road Bike - Felt ZW3
• 700c wheels, small size (I think)
• Tri Bike - Felt B2 Pro
• 650c wheels, size 50

Anyone want to take a stab at helping me?  Is there anymore info you need?

JeffY - 2013-03-06 3:44 PM

Tracy, the first question that comes to mind is whether or not your old road bike felt awkward to you because it didn't fit right or because you felt awkward despite it fitting right.  Road bikes fit differently than tri bikes and it is possible that one could feel 'right' to you and the other could feel 'wrong' without the actual position being right or wrong.

Do you have any pictures of you on your current road bike?  On the hoods, on the drops?

 

JeffY - 2013-03-06 6:41 PM

Dina/Warren, I've tried hinting (perhaps not even hinting) that interval training on the bike isn't directly helpful for us TTers (which triathletes are).  Most cycling training plans assume you will be a bike racer and therefore DO focus to some extent on explosive power.

We don't really need that.  If you are doing one of Jorge's workouts for instance, what's the entire duration from beginning to end?  And if you have any sort of power measuring device, what does it say is the AVERAGE from beginning to end? 

Despite the high numbers you maintain during the high intensity portions, I think your average will be lower than if you rode it like a single hard tempo ride.  Because your rest periods will be very low power.  But in a hard tempo ride (perhaps I should call it a threshold ride?) you will be going as hard as you can comfortably handle from beginning to end.  It's worth an experiment anyway...those of you who have a power number, what are the averages you are seeing for an entire Jorge workout?

Warren, you mentioned all boats rising or something to that effect....I have no evidence of this but I really feel like I'm riding better in my 40s than in my 20s when I was a dedicated roady and had an elite runner's cardio system.  Why?  Shouldn't be.  The only thing I can think of is that I had been squatting very heavily in those years in between.

My only possible guess as to why is that perhaps the muscles are most metabolically efficient at X% of max strength?   So if my max strength goes up, then efficiency increases at around my threshold???  Don't know.  But even if that max power stuff helps, it's not enough to beat out the value of steady state tempo or threshold rides. (IMO)

RunningYogini - 2013-03-06 7:27 PM

The fit is definitely wrong.  It's a whole lot better than my first road bike but it's still not great.  I'm thinking that the ZW geometry is just not right for me.  FWIW....the next size up ZW was too big.  It felt like it was riding me!!!!  Here is a picture from a couple years ago.  I've fiddled with the set up numerous times since this picture was taken.  It definitely shows my constant tendency on this bike to ride with my hands between the hoods and top bar.  With all of my changes, I'm always right in that spot.  The saddle is back as far as it can go (I think.)

strikyr - 2013-03-06 8:05 PM

I did my first S/B/R workout this year. I was able to get a swim session in during this morning and then do the bike/run brick in the evening. Hopefully I can start doing a little bit more of this.

Quick question to everyone running on the treadmill, how much difference is there in running outdoors vs. indoors on the treadmill. For me I am still getting adjusted to running on it so it feels weird to me. The one thing I have noticed is I seem to be running faster on the treadmill and my avg HR seems to be lower then if I were running the same speed outdoors. I don't know that for sure but it certainly feels that way.

The other thing I did was I bought the iFit module since my treadmill has that feature. I heard it is pretty cool to use but it's a pain in the butt to set it up. I am hoping to get that going this week. I'd like to run the Wisconsin and Syracuse courses if they are available.

wbayek - 2013-03-05 12:54 PM

ok, great to be back online as it's been crazy busy at work as we approach the CIC (change in control).  Fancy word for closing as Oracle is buying us.

I must be the only person using a special trainer tire.  I tried using my old tires, but they wear out ridiculously fast and leave black modules all over the place.  I literally went through them, like down to wire and beads, in 2-3 weeks.  I am currently using my tires from last year on the tri bike and the area is covered in black rubber when I'm done.  I ride on the rollers a lot too, and it seems fine on those.

Congrats on the record Tracy.  It's awesome to hammer like that.

My February s/b/r totals are atrocious, but I have some caveats.  The week of skiing and snow shoeing was no s/b/r but a lot of work.  I did a few swims which I haven't recorded, and a few runs I didn't log.  I've been running "naked" more lately, and it's been fun but I like the numbers so I'm going back to wearing the watch again.

I was also very lazy, and am still not motivated yet, though my half plan starts this weekend so I'm ready to light it up again. Jonathan, are you doing the Pumpkinman half?

February Totals:

Bike:	170.04 Mi - 9h 08m 36s
Run:	38.81 Mi - 6h 07m 06s
Swim:

pistuo - 2013-03-04 12:07 AM

Got some Q's.  Feel free to answer some or all:

1. Do you use a separate tire or wheel for trainer tides?

2. Do you take any daily vitamins?

3. For those of you with training knowledge, what do you think about this weekly plan for continuing to build base:

Mon- long run  Tue- S & B  Wed- short run  Thur- bike  Fri- swim  Sat- long bike  Sun- off

strikyr - 2013-03-06 9:05 PM

I did my first S/B/R workout this year. I was able to get a swim session in during this morning and then do the bike/run brick in the evening. Hopefully I can start doing a little bit more of this.

Quick question to everyone running on the treadmill, how much difference is there in running outdoors vs. indoors on the treadmill. For me I am still getting adjusted to running on it so it feels weird to me. The one thing I have noticed is I seem to be running faster on the treadmill and my avg HR seems to be lower then if I were running the same speed outdoors. I don't know that for sure but it certainly feels that way.

The other thing I did was I bought the iFit module since my treadmill has that feature. I heard it is pretty cool to use but it's a pain in the butt to set it up. I am hoping to get that going this week. I'd like to run the Wisconsin and Syracuse courses if they are available.

strikyr - 2013-03-06 6:05 PM

I did my first S/B/R workout this year. I was able to get a swim session in during this morning and then do the bike/run brick in the evening. Hopefully I can start doing a little bit more of this.

Quick question to everyone running on the treadmill, how much difference is there in running outdoors vs. indoors on the treadmill. For me I am still getting adjusted to running on it so it feels weird to me. The one thing I have noticed is I seem to be running faster on the treadmill and my avg HR seems to be lower then if I were running the same speed outdoors. I don't know that for sure but it certainly feels that way.

The other thing I did was I bought the iFit module since my treadmill has that feature. I heard it is pretty cool to use but it's a pain in the butt to set it up. I am hoping to get that going this week. I'd like to run the Wisconsin and Syracuse courses if they are available.

jgerbodegrant - 2013-03-06 6:38 PM

I will spend some time tomorrow looking at the two geometries (road vs. tri bike), but my first suggestion is to move your seat forward 1/2".  If you are constantly pushing yourself back on the saddle and are off the hoods, you're seat could be too far back.  As you said, it's as far back as it will go.

JeffY - 2013-03-06 7:22 PM Tracy, thanks for posting that picture. It's important to be comfortable, but if you are competitive there is some amount of compromise you Make for speed. Only you can decide where that balance is. In that picture I see your seat a little too forward and your upper body too upright and crowded. Your seat could probably go back some but your stem should be LONGER!

KWDreamun - 2013-03-07 6:49 AMQuestion for all my northern running friends which is almost everyone.  Today it was COLD!  Prior to running i rode the bike on the trainer for 30 minutes and came in and changed shirts it was so wet (I was hot).  I put on a short sleeve shirt and long sleeve shirt, long running pants, gloves and skull hat thing and I had on socks.  About the end of mile 1, my feet got so cold i could not feel them.  I only ran 3 today but gosh the last 2 were MISERABLE.  What did I do wrong?

KWDreamun - 2013-03-07 5:49 AM Question for all my northern running friends which is almost everyone.  Today it was COLD!  Prior to running i rode the bike on the trainer for 30 minutes and came in and changed shirts it was so wet (I was hot).  I put on a short sleeve shirt and long sleeve shirt, long running pants, gloves and skull hat thing and I had on socks.  About the end of mile 1, my feet got so cold i could not feel them.  I only ran 3 today but gosh the last 2 were MISERABLE.  What did I do wrong?

RunningYogini - 2013-03-06 10:36 PM

All treadmills are calibrated differently.  If I run on treadmill A, my speed and HR match my outdoor speed and HR perfectly.  If I run on treadmill B, I have to crank up the speed to get my HR to match outdoor conditions.  I run by time and HR on the treadmill and take the speed with a grain of salt.  I, also, try to hog treadmill A as much as possible! 

JeffY - 2013-03-06 5:41 PM

Dina/Warren, I've tried hinting (perhaps not even hinting) that interval training on the bike isn't directly helpful for us TTers (which triathletes are).  Most cycling training plans assume you will be a bike racer and therefore DO focus to some extent on explosive power.

We don't really need that.  If you are doing one of Jorge's workouts for instance, what's the entire duration from beginning to end?  And if you have any sort of power measuring device, what does it say is the AVERAGE from beginning to end? 

Despite the high numbers you maintain during the high intensity portions, I think your average will be lower than if you rode it like a single hard tempo ride.  Because your rest periods will be very low power.  But in a hard tempo ride (perhaps I should call it a threshold ride?) you will be going as hard as you can comfortably handle from beginning to end.  It's worth an experiment anyway...those of you who have a power number, what are the averages you are seeing for an entire Jorge workout?

Warren, you mentioned all boats rising or something to that effect....I have no evidence of this but I really feel like I'm riding better in my 40s than in my 20s when I was a dedicated roady and had an elite runner's cardio system.  Why?  Shouldn't be.  The only thing I can think of is that I had been squatting very heavily in those years in between.

My only possible guess as to why is that perhaps the muscles are most metabolically efficient at X% of max strength?   So if my max strength goes up, then efficiency increases at around my threshold???  Don't know.  But even if that max power stuff helps, it's not enough to beat out the value of steady state tempo or threshold rides. (IMO)

 

 

KWDreamun - 2013-03-07 6:49 AM Question for all my northern running friends which is almost everyone.  Today it was COLD!  Prior to running i rode the bike on the trainer for 30 minutes and came in and changed shirts it was so wet (I was hot).  I put on a short sleeve shirt and long sleeve shirt, long running pants, gloves and skull hat thing and I had on socks.  About the end of mile 1, my feet got so cold i could not feel them.  I only ran 3 today but gosh the last 2 were MISERABLE.  What did I do wrong?