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2008-03-03 7:46 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Admittedly, I haven't spent any time researching what I should be doing differently to improve my running. Like you, it needs as much help as my swimming. I've never heard of Chi Running before, but it's something for me to start thinking about.

Thanks.


2008-03-03 7:56 AM
in reply to: #1094615

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
I highly recommend Chi Running also.  Last year I knocked a lot of time off my pace with no more effort (probably less).  I was amazed!  Once I got in some practice, I also found it wasn't a big deal just to keep running longer.  I went from running 30 minutes and kind of laboring, to being able to do an hour at the same pace, and not feeling worn out at all.
2008-03-05 8:46 AM
in reply to: #1094615

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
I picked up a copy of the Chi Running book from the library yesterday. I'll be heading up North for the weekend, so it will give me something to read if I get stuck indoors. Otherwise, part of the plan is to try dogsledding! Yes, I am Canadian.

On another note, my training plan called for a running TT and I completed it last night (before we got dumped with more snow). I'm going to take the data and see if I can come up with different HR zones than what I'm using at the moment.

Squishy

P.S. Loving the Forerunner 305. Created the workout in Training Centre, downloaded to the forerunner and just had to hit start and let the watch adjust for the laps. Very Cool.
2008-03-05 12:58 PM
in reply to: #1094615

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
mdodd,

Spent a little time at lunch and refigured my running HR zones based on your previous calcs (pg 4). This is what I came up with - can you vet them and let me know if this makes sense?

(Bob I know I should be using the RPE, but I kind of like hard numbers for this sort of thing - plus the training plan is based on HR zones).

TT last night - final 20 minutes HR average was 170.

Zone 1 116-146
Zone 2 147-155
Zone 3 156-163
Zone 4 164-169
Zone 5a 170-173
Zone 5b 174-178
Zone 5c 179-188

Thanks,

Squishy
2008-03-05 6:30 PM
in reply to: #1254222

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Squishy

In our previous posts, you indicated you have a copy of The Triathlete's Training Bible. That is what I use to determine zones. According to the Bible (p. 43), a lactate threshold of 170 results in the following zones:
Z1 112-144
Z2 145-155
Z3 156-162
Z4 163-169
Z5a 170-173
Z5b 174-179
Z5c 180-188

The numbers in your post were almost identical, so whatever method you used (Karvonen Formula?) looks like it is equally as good. I hope others will jump in with their opinions of this vs. other options.

Great to hear that the 305 is working so well for you. Gotta get me one of those. Can two separate people store their information? I'm not sure I can justify the cost unless my wife and I can both use it.

Mark

Edited by mdodd 2008-03-05 6:40 PM
2008-03-05 8:11 PM
in reply to: #1094615

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Thanks Mark - I couldn't find my book, but used your previous example to figure it out.

As far as I can tell you can't use the 305 for 2 people (only lets you have 1 set of HR for running and 1 for biking). That said, these have come way down in price because the 405 is about to hit the market (although for some odd reason it doesn't offer Multisport - and still isn't waterproof).

Keep in mind you'll need to fork out an extra $40-50 for the bike cadence sensor - but it really is worth it. (I'll be justifying this to my wife for the next 2 months). I also have the Toronto Bike show coming up in 2 days, but I have no idea how I'm going to get away with spending more money.

Squishy


2008-03-11 8:17 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Swam my first TT last night. Would have liked to have seen a faster time, but I'm very satisfied that I got through 800M straight - furthest distance to date. Over the next couple of months will be looking to shave off 5 seconds a lap to get myself down to around 2:00/100M.

Did everyone disappear again?

Squishy
2008-03-12 6:40 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Great job on that swim!  It's cool to see improvements, and you'll find that now you can go 800, you'll be able to do 1000 with no problem, and continue to keep getting better! Cool
2008-03-12 9:51 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
squishy,

Great job on the swim. I think you will realize now that you have gone that distance you can handle just about any distance you want. At this point it is all about the mental. Control your breathing, pace yourself, and you can do any distance you want as long as you maintain your form.

I too had a first the other day... I swam in an endless pool. That was one heck of a workout. The purpose was to work on my stroke, but I tell you what, I wore me out.

To give you an idea what I am working on:

There are two parts of my stroke that I want to improve. The first; when I start my catch, keeping my elbow high so I can generate more power, and second: have my arm track straight during the stroke. I have a bad habit of doing an s-curve under my body. Doing an s-curve is less efficient and damages the shoulder. Unfortunately for me, that is how i was taught to swim decades ago and it is ingrained in my neuro system..

-Steve
2008-03-13 8:14 AM
in reply to: #1094615

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Thanks for the feedback guys - much appreciated. I certainly need to work on my stroke because I can tell that I'm doing things wrong as I'm doing them. I just have a hard time correcting them. I think a lot of it has to do with timing, because by the time I start to pull I've dropped that arm quite a bit rather than keeping it closer to the surface. This gives me a sinking feeling, and at the same time forces me to pull deeper in the water - which I believe makes it harder.

Another first for me yesterday, my longest run to date = 12km in 1:10. I've never run for that long or that far, so I'm pretty happy. My calves were feeling it last night, but surprisingly I don't have any muscle pain this morning. Will miss out on some training again this weeked as we have a wedding to attend (with an open bar) so I don't know that I'll be in any shape for Sunday.

Squishy
2008-03-13 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
I have a couple of questions about transitions.
My next race is at Lake Mead and they said wet suits are recommended.
Do you wear a swim suit underneath?
When you get to the bike do you leave the swimsuit on and put shorts/sportbra/t-shirt on and bike-run with that?
I'm confused


2008-03-13 3:43 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

wswope - 2008-03-13 2:53 PM I have a couple of questions about transitions. My next race is at Lake Mead and they said wet suits are recommended. Do you wear a swim suit underneath? When you get to the bike do you leave the swimsuit on and put shorts/sportbra/t-shirt on and bike-run with that? I'm confused

I might have a friend pop in with some better advice for you, but as far as I know, women do the races the same as men by wearing a tri-suit under the wet suit, and not a bathing suit. 

When you get out of the water you'll start stripping off the wetsuit down to your waist as you run out of the lake and up the hill to the bike.  When you get to the bike, then pull it off your legs, put on your socks and shoes and get moving!  Smile

2008-03-13 5:28 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

wswope - 2008-03-13 11:53 AM I have a couple of questions about transitions. My next race is at Lake Mead and they said wet suits are recommended. Do you wear a swim suit underneath? When you get to the bike do you leave the swimsuit on and put shorts/sportbra/t-shirt on and bike-run with that? I'm confused

Hey....I was asked to stop by and give my two cents on what to wear during a tri with a wetsuit.  I've only worn a wetsuit once (although just got one so will wear one to all of them this season!).  I wore a one piece trisuit underneath and then, as Willie says, took off the wetsuit and wore the trisuit for the rest of the race.  It was a cold day so I put a long-sleeved tech shirt over it for the bike and run, although if it were warm I would just wear the trisuit (with a sport bra underneath it)--read any thread about bras and you will see I recommend the Goddess Bra for its quick drying properties, and its adjustability.  Anyway, I hope that helps.  If you want any more info feel free to PM me or post in my inspires or whatever!  And good luck!!

--Leslie

2008-03-13 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
squishybelly - 2008-03-13 9:14 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys - much appreciated. I certainly need to work on my stroke because I can tell that I'm doing things wrong as I'm doing them. I just have a hard time correcting them. I think a lot of it has to do with timing, because by the time I start to pull I've dropped that arm quite a bit rather than keeping it closer to the surface. This gives me a sinking feeling, and at the same time forces me to pull deeper in the water - which I believe makes it harder.

Squishy


Squishy,

I think the best thing to do is to get a coach to take a look at your stroke. Without seeing it, it is hard to tell if your arm is "dropping", which may not be a bad thing.

when I start my stroke with my forward arm, it reaches down pretty far. I try and keep my elbow high, but my arm is deep. Not to confuse you, but the reason I need to focus on keeping my elbow high is three fold. 1) It prevents my arm from s-stroking, and keeps my arm from crossing the center line. 2) It gives me more surface area to grab the water and 3) at the beginning of the catch, I can gab more water.

Remember, you are not pulling your arm through the water. You arm is staying stationary and pulling your body forward. The more water you "catch" the more efficient you are at pulling your body through the water.
2008-03-14 6:47 AM
in reply to: #1254965

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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

mdodd - 2008-03-05 7:30 PM Squishy In our previous posts, you indicated you have a copy of The Triathlete's Training Bible. That is what I use to determine zones. According to the Bible (p. 43), a lactate threshold of 170 results in the following zones: Z1 112-144 Z2 145-155 Z3 156-162 Z4 163-169 Z5a 170-173 Z5b 174-179 Z5c 180-188 The numbers in your post were almost identical, so whatever method you used (Karvonen Formula?) looks like it is equally as good. I hope others will jump in with their opinions of this vs. other options. Great to hear that the 305 is working so well for you. Gotta get me one of those. Can two separate people store their information? I'm not sure I can justify the cost unless my wife and I can both use it. Mark

Mark,

I was just looking at the Training Center software that comes with the 305, and on that you can have multiple users.  Although the watch just has data that looks like it's for one person, before you go to upload, you simply switch user names in the software, then it will upload to that person's data & history.  I hardly ever go back to look at the history on the watch, I always look at the uploads on the PC, so this is much more valuable anyway.

2008-03-14 3:20 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Thanks for the info Bob. There are so many different types/brands/options that it's hard to know where to start. It is good to read others' experiences.

It's also great to read about your training, I'm living vicariously at the moment. A quick note on my status. I had surgery yesterday on a herniated disc. They clipped off the herniation (word?), and I was back home ~ 16 hours later. I have limits on mobility and lifting for the next 4-6 weeks while the hole in the disc where the herniation occurred scars over. I have had immediate pain relief, just have the discomfort of the incision. Thanks again for the support you've offered.

Mark



2008-03-17 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
snowrider - thanks for the info on swimming technique. I do agree that I need to have an instructer help analyze my stroke. So much easier if you have someone tell you to focus on 1 or 2 things. I find this is very much like golf - so many moving parts, but when it comes down to it, you should only think about 2-3 when you're ready to strike the ball.

Bob - thanks for the correction on the 305 and multiple users. Still learning mine, but loving it so far. Only funny thing to happen was it recorded an indoor bike training session as a Multisport session, and I can't figure out why.

mdodd - really sorry to hear about your back, sounds like this may ruin your season. But I suppose missing this season to have a healthy back is worth it. You just have more time to prepare for next year.

Squishy
2008-03-17 7:43 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Squishy,

I don't know if I have said this before, but I used to be a competitive swimmer in my younger years. It is definitely my strength. My typical workout is between 2200- 3200 yards which I complete anywhere from 45 minutes to just over an hour. That being said I have been working with different people on my stroke, and it is starting to make a huge difference. I took one clinic and I have been working with a coach during my sessions in a endless pool. One of the best ways to get better at swimming is refining your stroke. Even though my stroke is good, some small changes have been pointed out to me that seem to be making big difference.

If you can find a coach i think you will find it extremely helpful. It does not need to be a total immersion coach. I have learned that the style of swimming that is taught in total immersion is the accepted style for competitive swimmers, even at the olympic level. The creator of total immersion just gave it a name, wrote a book, and targeted the triathlon community. The guy who taught my clinic had some very strong opinions about this. Anyways, good luck and keep working on it. I have no doubt you will do great!!
2008-03-19 7:51 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Thanks snowrider.

I think one of my other big questions is just how much effort do you put into the swim section fo the race. After I swam that 850 I was pretty drained, and I'm not sure how I would have managed the subsequent bike & run. Suggestions?

Squishy
2008-03-19 9:56 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

squishybelly - 2008-03-19 8:51 AM Thanks snowrider. I think one of my other big questions is just how much effort do you put into the swim section fo the race. After I swam that 850 I was pretty drained, and I'm not sure how I would have managed the subsequent bike & run. Suggestions? Squishy

Squishy - You'll keep getting better as time goes on and you keep training.  Even the most basic training plan for a Sprint has a max swim workout of 1600 yds, and the more advanced go up to 2200 or 3300 yards for a Sprint.  The reason is so that an 800 or 1000 yard swim doesn't drain you during the race and you're ready to go for the bike.

I looked at it that I wanted to come out of the water feeling that I put in a good effort, so I'd be a little out of breath, but not so much that I was ready to puke!  On the other hand, I also didn't want to come out feeling like it was a breeze because that would tell me I didn't try hard enough.

By race time, you want to feel that the distance is not an issue, and the only variable will be your effort for your speed.  As you continue the training, before long you'll shrug off an 800 yard swim as just another piece of your workout! Smile

2008-03-20 12:57 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
Thanks Bob - sounds like a good tactic. Feel a bit tierd - but not too much, and not too little.


2008-03-25 8:12 PM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
How was everyones training today. I did an hour ride on the trainer. Interval work to simulate hills, since we don't have any down here in south florida.



2008-03-26 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

I'm finally getting back into a routine again.  Swam twice last week and once on the trainer.  Yesterday I rode the trainer for 30 mins, and this morning swam 1600 yds.

Other than a couple of annoying little injuries that slowed me down, I've found it much harder to do indoor training this year.  Last year I enjoyed it, but then after spending much of the year outside, I've found it hard to go back in this year for the bike and treadmill.  So I just keep saying to myself - It's a long season....

2008-03-26 8:41 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed
I've recently found that other things have been getting in the way of training, so I need to start trying to ratchet things back up. I swam yesterday, and was garbage - I already swim in the slow lane, but when I'm being caught by others in my lane then I know there's a problem. I ended up quitting with about 5 minutes to go because I had nothing left in the tank.

On a positive note I bought some aerobars for my road bike and got them fitted last night - which took a couple of hours. The fitter also had me hooked up to a Computrainer, so when the fitting was complete he spent a little time pointing out that I'm left leg dominant and not very effecient with my pedal stroke. I'm glad to say he pointed out a couple of things for me to try and focus on, that should make me more effecient. He also highly recommended changing to a compact crank.

Now if only I had $2K for a Computrainer....

Squishy
2008-03-26 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: willie05's Group - Closed

Squishy - That's cool about the bikefitter's recommendations.  I tell you, a bike fitter who knows what he's talking about is worth his weight in gold.

Good luck getting back into training.  Don't try to make up for lost ground all at once, just ramp it back up at a pace and volume that's comfortable.

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