PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL (Page 8)

JD,

 How much time did you put into your tri bike before your HIM?  I'm wondering most about your long ride each week.  Did you use it bike for 3-4 hour rides before the race?  Or equal the distance?  It's not the most comfortable thing to ride for a long time...

 Will

yeah, it's not a lot of fun to build up to the longer distances. The body isn't used to it and doesn't like it much... The good news is that the more you do it the easier it gets. I remember for my first 1/2 IM, going 40 miles the first time just seemed really, really long. Now it is a fairly routine ride in terms of distance.

So, to answer the question... I went back and looked at my logs for my first IM in 2004. Here are my long rides the weeks before the race: 50, 30, 50, 55, 15, 25 (olympic tri), 50, 60; then taper.

Last year, over roughly the same time period, these were the long rides: 62, 51, 57, 55, 42, 25 (race), 68, 65; then taper.

Also make sure you keep an eye on total mileage for the week in conjunction with the long ride. For example, 3x25 plus a long ride of 50 gives you a total of 125 miles, which is good mileage for a half IM.

How does that fit in with what you are thinking?

That's helpful.  Thanks for digging back through your log entries like that.  It's nice to see how you set yourself up. 

Did you do that all on your tri bike?  It looks like I'm getting close on the overall milage with my comfy road bike, but I'm more worried about milage on that tri-specific bike.  There are some whole new areas of friction and some new muscle use with this new bike and I'm kind of dreading doing 60 miles on it. 

Will

I do all my outdoor riding on my tri bike (Cervelo Dual). I do some mid-week rides on the bike trainer with a Trek 1000 that we just leave set up on the trainer. As you say, there are different muscle groups, friction points, etc. with the tri bike; so if that's what you're going to use in the race... gotta start getting in the mileage on that bike. Just build it up slowly, just like you would with running. But also give yourself some slack, if on a particular day you just really feel like using the road bike - go for it!

One other thought, your tri bike really should not be terribly uncomfortable, so don't be afraid to go to your bike shop and work with the fitter on areas that bother you. Aero is great, but not if you're sacrificing too much power and comfort. It's all a balance.

Baowulf - if you happen to check the thread...

GOOD LUCK TOMORROW AT THE MARATHON!!!

JD

Go get 'em, Baowolf!

I was hoping you'd say that you did up to only 40 mies on the tri bike...    It's not too uncomfortable, but my roady feels much nicer because I've been using it for so long.

Woot my first full mary is done with no walking at all yay!  I have a race report up.  Temp started at 38 F brr but climed up to a lovely mid 60s by the end, never got hot.  I was thinking I would finish around 4:15, but finished at 3:48:45.  It put me 49th out of 171 finishers.  Was an awsome race, very beautiful.  Started 200 feet up 2 miles form Shasta dam overlooking the lake and dropped 700 feet or whatever over 3.5 miles.  Trail ran along the Sacramento river the whole way very beautiful on an old railroad track turned hiking trail. 

So mile 20-23 were long, and miles 24 to the end = what mental toughness means to not walk.  Just kept moving and got a little kick at the end. 

Man the folks in my age group were fast, 3rd place in age group was 3:06, and my age group got 2nd,3rd, 5th, 7th 9th etc.  Really really fast age group. Definatley an awsome day. 

 BTW my longest ride pre first HIM was 77 and ranged 55 to 77, but no real speedwork.  Find out if the bike for your HIM has hills.  Mine had endless hills and it took its toll. 

Anyway hope everyone elses weekend rocked 8).  

Wow - that is a terrific time for your first marathon! And it sounds like a picture perfect day as well; what more can you ask for?

That's a great description of the last 6.2 of a marathon. From mile marker 19 to 24 you just SWEAR that they are moving those markers further apart as you're running; then around 24 you can "smell the barn" and the feeling that you are about to finish starts kicking in. Terrific that you had a kick left at that point.

Congrats!!!

JD

Hrm the legs.  Those down hills took their toll I think.  I am walking a bit slow and robotic today still.  I walked about 1 mile yesterday and tried to not sit too long during the day.  I will probably try to get in some more walking tonight, possibly some spinning.  I do not have any real desire to run just as of yet, but I do want to get back into the training for that IM in the fall.  I will probably get in a swim on Friday and see how that feels, minimal leg work there. 

For fun and excitement tonight I will be moving all of the contents of the old garage into the new garage so they construction guys won't have the excuse that they can't start anything because my stuff is in the way.  I am thinking of moving my workout stuff into the new garage, it is pretty nice good lighting, etc.  I would then be able to get from the door to the treadmill to the tainer without having to worry about careful foot placement and not have to worry so much about using up all of the O2 in the room during longer sessions. 

So to qualify for Boston in a marathon I only have to run 28 minutes faster, so thats um 1 min per mile pace faster so like 7:40 ish min mile pace for a marathon.  Wow, hadn't done the math before that is fastish in my mind.  Oh well catchyall later.

or just wait until you turn 45 (as of Boston Marathon date that you are aiming for)... then you only have to be 18 minutes faster! Worked for me

So... how's everyone doing? A little quiet lately. If anybody wants input on training plans, logs, etc.; just let me know. You can also PM me if you have something you don't want on the public forum.

Just for the heck of it, here's a transition tip for everyone (on my mind since I have duathlon this weekend). SIMPLIFY. If you ever wonder how some people get in/out of transition really fast, a lot of it is that there is very little for them to do or deal with. Things like a tri-top (so you don't have to put on a shirt in transition), going sockless, speed laces, shoes on the bike, etc.; don't make a huge difference independently - but add them all up (along with reduced clutter) - and suddenly you are flying thru transition. Unless you are me at IM FL, in which case you take so long it truly does become a 4th event

Cheers for now...

JD

Question: K so I am shooting for an IM in August as running a marathon was not nearly enough pain and suffering and I am odd that way. 

In any case, my question is how do you figure out what to do prior to starting a 20 week program or whatever?  So for determining base training workouts and such.  If I started the 20 week plan now, well first off I would start at week 8 because that is where my base training has been, but then do you just repeat weeks 8-12 untill you get close enough to start upping the distances and then kind of peak for the IM or do you just slowly build up base until you are roughly at where you should be distance/vollume level to attempt/complete it? 

Yes, we must all find ways to abuse ourselves even further, true?

Coming off a marathon, your running base is obviously way high for starting an IM plan; but that's ok. You want to bring that down some and then build it back up anyway, but this time as you build the distances you may just find that you are able to go faster. For me, I wouldn't want to drop back any further than long runs of 10 miles, and start building from there. For an IM, lots of runs in that 14-18 mile range might be a good way to go.

The bike is where you are really going to want to focus. That is where you get the most bang for your buck in an IM, and you can do a lot of training without as much physical toll as running.

Try to find a plan that roughly correlates to what you want, and then make the adjustments that fit in to your current fitness level; especially for the running. I'd be glad to help with that if you'd like.

Well, I had an interesting morning in the pool today. After being sick with a GI thing over the weekend, I'm finally feeling back to normal. I felt pretty strong and did my first 2-750yds in 20 minutes each. I know that's pretty slow but faster than my usual and good for me. I finished the mile in 50 minutes, which is 7 minutes faster than my best so far (not trying to race just working out and swimming pretty steady). I'm real sure I didn't miss count up to there but I still wonder if I did. Then I finished my 2400yds in 65 minutes. The last time it took me 77 minutes. I'm still thinking I lost count of my laps. I'm going to repeat what I did today on Friday. It just seemed like it was a big improvement...maybe too big to be true!!

JD...don't know if you're looking at our logs, just want to let you know I'll be cutting back on some strength training and filling in with biking in a couple of weeks...................Tom

JD, is it a presta pump or are you using the schrader adaptors?  I tried the adaptors but couldn't get them to work. 

My tire pressure gage is built into my tire pump as well.  It would be really hard to feel the difference between 80 pounds and 100/110/120 pounds. 

Grats on those swim times.  I too go a bit nuts with counting laps.  I am good for the first 60 or so, but somewhere between 80 and 180 I can zone out focusing on breathing or head position or how foggy my gogles are or wondering about the qualitative differences between one's soul, one's spirit and how that relates to genetic predispositions towards temperment and the resulting impact on freewill, especially for people whose life experiences seem to overwhelm freewill to a lage extent due to trauma.  But I digress.

So 4 days after the marathon walking is less robotic and more fluid with a marked decrease in muscle soreness.  I had thought about jogging some during the week, but with walking being so um uncomfortable I decided against it.  Maybe a short jog tonight or a spin.  I am definately gona swim on Friday, probly 3000 yards and then pick things back up slowly for next week.   

First of all, sorry about disappearing for a couple days. Just one of those weeks...

Let's start with looking at 1/2 IM time based on current training (just rough estimates):

If you can do the swim in around an hour, finish bike in under 3 hrs (just over 18 mph avg), and run in 2 hours (9.5 min pace); that gets you at 6 hours, not counting transition time. And it also fits in closely with your time goals you had posted previously. I looked at the free plan, which is a beginner plan, and here's a couple tweaks I'd suggest (caveat that I am not at this point a coach...).

Your biking background is your strength, so don't be afraid to go beyond the plan. That is where you are going to get your biggest bang for the buck in terms of training time and effort corresponding to race speed. Not only will it allow for a fast bike, but if you are really well trained on the bike, you'll be able to have a much better run. By going beyond, I just mean that you could do more mileage on a given day if you think it is a little light. With your biking experience, long rides of 70 miles or so should not be a huge deal, for example.

For the running and swimming, the plan should work well for you, but remember that everyone is unique. Background, body type, age, etc. all factor into it; so don't be afraid to make adjustments based on what is happening with your body and in your life.

Also, feel free to post here or PM me as you get going, and we can talk about how the training is going.

JD

Edited to add link to this thread regarding the half im plan

mtnbkr - answering out of order here; but congrats on the swim improvements!  I honestly would still like to see you guys use shorter intervals and focus on your body position/technique; but I won't belabor the point   BTW: you can do that and leave as little as 10-15 seconds between the sets.

I have been checking logs once in a while while answering questions, but not on a regular basis. I can only see the current week from what I can tell (other than the charts for current/previous month totals). So, I'm going to start making a point of checking Sunday night/Monday morning; and I'll also post to this thread with an overview of my training for the previous week. If any of you would prefer that I not post comments here about your training logs, just let me know

I'm using an Ascent pump with both types of nozzles on it. HERE is a site with a few of those types of pumps, including the Ascent pump that I use. Nothing fancy, but it works fine and has a nice built in pressure gauge. I actually bought the Joe Blow Twinhead adapter for it, because that particular head works better with my rear disc wheel (narrow opening to fit in the head).

JD,

That's nice of you to take the time to check our logs.  You can view more than one week.  On the left of the log there's a pulldown menu just under the calendar called 'Show.'  You can choose 1-4 weeks.  I'll try to be a little more specific with what I'm doing since you're spending the time looking.

Will