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Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: (Page 8)
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 2011-02-18 9:22 AM in reply to: #3361456 |
Champion  18680       Lost in the Luminiferous Aether |  Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI:crusevegas - 2011-02-18 10:20 AM UWMadTri - 2011-02-17 11:19 PM And one more thing: do you all support the billion dollars that Walker wants to cut from education next week? 20% from Milwaukee alone?! Look at Minnesota...top 5% of income earners have a 3% increase in taxes, plus increase in property taxes over $1 million dollars... it's going to generate $3 BILLION in two years. Walker's plan here will save $300 MILLION. You still support this guy? Before you answer, think about that. What happens to those #'s if 20% of those who are getting the tax increase move to a state with more favorable taxes? Or choose to work less so that they earn less reducing overall productivity.. "Millionaire" taxes most always fail to bring in their projected revenue for just these reasons. |
| 2011-02-18 9:24 AM in reply to: #3361130 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 12:51 AM JSA - 2011-02-17 11:22 PM UWMadTri - 2011-02-17 11:06 PM I've got nothing. There's nothing I can say that won't be argued. If you can't see that the state workers deserve their RIGHT (Wi. Stat. Ch. 111) to bargain collectively, I don't think we'll ever agree on anything. Despite the overwhelming disagreement on this board, anyone reading this should know that the Wisconsin people have spoken and we will not stop until Walker sits down and makes changes to this bill. If you disagree with this and think all of your friends disagree with this, have them vote. Only 17% of ~40,000 people polled said they agree with this bill. Who's the minority?? http://www.jsonline.com/polls/115922949.html?results=y&mr=1&oid=3&pid=115922949&cid=8500544 Actually, my friend, the people of WI spoke in November and their voices were heard. Walker ran on this platform and won by a landslide. Both houses of the legislature flipped from Dem to Rep. This past Tuesday, Conservative WI Supreme Court Justice Prosser took an overwhelming majority of the votes in the primary. In Milwaukee County, only 1 conservative/Rep, Jeff Stone, ran in a 5 person race for Milwaukee County Executive and he took nearly double the vote of the next highest person. The people of WI have spoken. You should be careful when you try to use polling data. Funny thing about polls, you need to look at how the question is asked and to whom. See, 57% of over 60,000 people polled would vote in FAVOR of the bill: http://www.jsonline.com/polls/116392154.html?results=y&mr=1&oid=1&pid=116392154&cid=8500544 Oh, I absolutely agree that they spoke. My belief in democracy is strong...I was ready to support Walker even though I did not vote for him. The rail peeved me off, but I got past it. This?? No. Absolutely not. I think it would be very interesting to see how things would have shaken up if Walker said that he was going to strip collective bargaining rights. There's also a lot that has changed since your poll was posted, but your point is well taken. At this point, Walker has too much national pressure not to make the collective bargaining concessions. Senate Dems are willing to go to jail to wait this out, 2 Republican Senators are with them and 5 more are on the fence now. Let's see what the people say now. So, you believe that Walker did not disclose his intent regarding collective bargaining rights when he was running for office? The unions disagree. Below is a link to one piece of union propaganda distributed during the election. This is from a public sector union in West Allis. Read it carefully, because it cites the times and places where Walker specifically discussed his agenda. This is one piece of union propoganda. I have dozens like it in my office. Walker never hid the ball and those who followed the race clearly saw that. The Unions took Walker's words and twisted them to the limits of their logical interpretation in an effort to portray Walker as a radical who needed to be defeated. What happened? He won in a landslide. The people of WI were listening during this race. They heard was Walker was saying and they agreed with his agenda. Not only did they elect him by an overwhelming majority, they gave him a senate and assembly who could pass his proposed legislation. The only "surprise" we have had with Walker is that the people of WI finally have a politician who DOES what he SAID he would do. That a new concept for us. But, there was no hiding of the ball. Contrary to your arguement above, the senate Dems are not willing to go to jail. I posted this earlier. A "call" was issued for them. Capital police and state law enforcement have the order to arrest them on sight. They will be transported to the senate chambers where they will be arraigned. They will have to explain their actions and, if found "guilty" of avoiding their duty, they will be fined. Then, the senate chamber doors are -- literally -- locked and all senators are forced to stay in chambers until business is concluded. The senate Reps have not lost any votes. They still have the votes to pass this once they get 20 senators in the chamber. As I predicted last night, the Assembly is started its session at 0900 this morning. The Assembly has the votes to pass the bill, even if all Dems in the Assembly walk, which they are expected to do any minute. The Dems last hope here was to launch a plethora of ammendments in the assembly. However, now they are stuck b/c of the actions of the senate Dems. They have no leverage and may have to walk out as a political stunt. If and when they do so, the assembly Reps will pass the bill, as written. You still never answered by question regarding collective bargaining. Why should public employees have the unfettered right to so engage? http://www.wawmea.org/NewsletterFiles/10_11/Walker's%20Dangerous%20Plans%20WAWM%202010.pdf |
| 2011-02-18 9:24 AM in reply to: #3361212 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: 1stTimeTri - 2011-02-18 6:58 AM Is it possible that the need to nickel and dime other components of the public sector is a function of supporting an antiquated inefficient system with benes? I feel your pain Phil. I am going through my 4th merger in 15 years. And yet things have continued to get better through some of these opportunites in the past.Thank you to those that are contributing to this thread. I think the mass sick outs dont do the perception of teachers any good. I am married to one and know a ton of folks in the public sector and this shouldnt be vindictive on anyones part, it should be finding a way to streamline things and make them more sustainable. |
| 2011-02-18 9:27 AM in reply to: #3361445 |
| Member 169 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:14 AM burhed - 2011-02-18 9:10 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 8:43 AM Proposing a tax increase on high income earners is class warfare, but cutting the salary and benefits of middle class people isn't? Cutting public education which would effect low income students the most while higher income could just send to a private school is not class warfare?UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 1:19 AM And one more thing: do you all support the billion dollars that Walker wants to cut from education next week? 20% from Milwaukee alone?! Look at Minnesota...top 5% of income earners have a 3% increase in taxes, plus increase in property taxes over $1 million dollars... it's going to generate $3 BILLION in two years. Walker's plan here will save $300 MILLION. You still support this guy? Before you answer, think about that. I thought about it.....Yep...cut it. Gov. Dayton in MN is taking the lazy approach by PROPOSING the above and invoking class warfare...it hasn't even happened yet as you seem to suggest above. Practically the only thing I heard from him during his campaign was "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". Fair share??? We don't need to go thru the fallacies of that thinking again here. Dayton should do his job and take a hard look at the MN budget, make cuts, and stop spending. You point to the $300 million of Walker's proposal and act like that's the only thing he wants to cut from the entire state budget, so comparing $3 B to $300 M is meaningless. How you get class warfare out of proposing to make a small percentage of the middle class (not the entire middle class!!!!) pay just a tiny portion towards their own pension like many other people have to do is simply beyond me....truly...do you even realize what you just said?? How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. |
| 2011-02-18 9:30 AM in reply to: #3361451 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-02-18 8:08 AM Just as people mention that "if you don't like your salary or benefits working in the public sector then go find a job in private". If you don't like who your company / union is giving money to go find a job else where. I think this is a poor argument. I work for very large company that I know gives money to political parties that I don't agree with. In theory that money could go back in to my salary right? Or if you want to talk about the taxes we all hate, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but my tax money still goes to support that.JSA brought up a good point or question which I find curious as well, why are the WI state employees forced to join a group that contributes so much money to a political party they may not agree with? Welcome to BT JSA, good stuff on this topic. Some of the differences are those are tax dollars that the state employees are being paid with, there is no competition within the state for another state job that doesn't have a union and the thing that truly concerns me the most is what looks like an un-holy alliance between the DNC, the Unions and the CPUSA. It's not the employeer that's sending the money, it's the gang you have to join to get the job that's doing the bribing contributing. What industry is better off today than it was 20 years ago that is Union? Edited by crusevegas 2011-02-18 9:31 AM |
| 2011-02-18 9:32 AM in reply to: #3361451 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-02-18 8:08 AM Just as people mention that "if you don't like your salary or benefits working in the public sector then go find a job in private". If you don't like who your company / union is giving money to go find a job else where. I think this is a poor argument. I work for very large company that I know gives money to political parties that I don't agree with. In theory that money could go back in to my salary right? Or if you want to talk about the taxes we all hate, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but my tax money still goes to support that.JSA brought up a good point or question which I find curious as well, why are the WI state employees forced to join a group that contributes so much money to a political party they may not agree with? Welcome to BT JSA, good stuff on this topic. "In theory that money could go back to my salary right?" Probably not. Private corporations have operating expenses that definitely include salaries and benefits and likely include political contributions. They are mutually exclusive. Also, the main objective of a private corporation is to make money, whether that be for the owners or the shareholders. So, the money spent on political contributions was never "your money" and if not spent on said contributions, it would likely go in the pockets of the owners/shareholders. That is what private businesses are supposed to do. In the case of public unions (or private unions, for that matter), it actually is your money that is taken. That union due comes right off your paycheck -- post tax, mind you, not pre-tax, like health insurance payment, for example. You have no say. |
| 2011-02-18 9:38 AM in reply to: #3361473 |
Master 1553 Elm Grove | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:14 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment.burhed - 2011-02-18 9:10 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 8:43 AM Proposing a tax increase on high income earners is class warfare, but cutting the salary and benefits of middle class people isn't? Cutting public education which would effect low income students the most while higher income could just send to a private school is not class warfare?UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 1:19 AM And one more thing: do you all support the billion dollars that Walker wants to cut from education next week? 20% from Milwaukee alone?! Look at Minnesota...top 5% of income earners have a 3% increase in taxes, plus increase in property taxes over $1 million dollars... it's going to generate $3 BILLION in two years. Walker's plan here will save $300 MILLION. You still support this guy? Before you answer, think about that. I thought about it.....Yep...cut it. Gov. Dayton in MN is taking the lazy approach by PROPOSING the above and invoking class warfare...it hasn't even happened yet as you seem to suggest above. Practically the only thing I heard from him during his campaign was "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". Fair share??? We don't need to go thru the fallacies of that thinking again here. Dayton should do his job and take a hard look at the MN budget, make cuts, and stop spending. You point to the $300 million of Walker's proposal and act like that's the only thing he wants to cut from the entire state budget, so comparing $3 B to $300 M is meaningless. How you get class warfare out of proposing to make a small percentage of the middle class (not the entire middle class!!!!) pay just a tiny portion towards their own pension like many other people have to do is simply beyond me....truly...do you even realize what you just said??
Here is my issue with that, and no I do not make this much but just for example. An individual that makes $200,000 in Wisconsin paid $12,895.96 in just state income tax for 2010. By raising their tax rate 2% they end up paying about $1000 more. Now granted that does not equal the $4800 more that your 50K person is making, the difference is that $1000 is going to the government. The $4800 is going back to the person paying it as retirement income (pension) or their healthcare, which will still be cheaper and in most cases better than most health care plans. ETA: The above is just for a single person making $200,000 for a married couple filling jointly it is worse, they have an increase of around $3400. Edited by sgoehner 2011-02-18 9:43 AM |
| 2011-02-18 9:40 AM in reply to: #3361473 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? Edited by Birkierunner 2011-02-18 9:42 AM |
| 2011-02-18 9:57 AM in reply to: #3361500 |
| Member 169 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:40 AM burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? I've never understood this argument, but maybe I just haven't taken the time to really look at the numbers. If there was a flat tax wouldn't the top 1% still end up paying more than the lower 50%? Just the nature of making more money. That's a serious question. I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. |
| 2011-02-18 10:03 AM in reply to: #3361538 |
Champion 18680 Lost in the Luminiferous Aether | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 10:57 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:40 AM I've never understood this argument, but maybe I just haven't taken the time to really look at the numbers. If there was a flat tax wouldn't the top 1% still end up paying more than the lower 50%? Just the nature of making more money. That's a serious question. I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? Yes they would still end up paying more but the numbers would be flatter. and how exactly are you saying they got more from the government system? They had the same education and opportunities as anyone else. |
| 2011-02-18 10:05 AM in reply to: #3361538 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:57 AM High income earners have gained more from the government system? How so? Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:40 AM I've never understood this argument, but maybe I just haven't taken the time to really look at the numbers. If there was a flat tax wouldn't the top 1% still end up paying more than the lower 50%? Just the nature of making more money. That's a serious question. I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? |
| 2011-02-18 10:08 AM in reply to: #3361538 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 9:57 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:40 AM I've never understood this argument, but maybe I just haven't taken the time to really look at the numbers. If there was a flat tax wouldn't the top 1% still end up paying more than the lower 50%? Just the nature of making more money. That's a serious question. I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? Yes, if there was a flat tax, the people at the top would pay more money than the people at the bottom, but, at least the percentages would be the same. Under the current system, the more you make, the higher pecentage contribution you are forced to make. It would be "fair" if those making $25k paid, said 15% in taxes and those making $250k also paid the same 15%. But, that is not how it works. Look at it this way. Lets assume there are 2 families. One family has no kids. The second family has 6 kids. Let's assume that groceries were taxed under the same method as income taxes. So: For the first $50 you spend, you pay no tax. For $51-100 you spend, you pay 5% tax. For $101-150 you spend, you pay 7.5% tax. For $150-200 you spend, you pay 10% tax. For anything over $200, you pay 15% tax. Family one, with no kids, spends $50 per week on groceries and pays no taxes. Family two, with 6 kids, spends $250 per week on groceries and pays up to 15% in taxes. Is that fair? Under our current system, depending on the county, taxes are around 5.7% (yeah, I know, most groceries are not taxed, but, work with me here). Under our current system - Family 1 pays $2.85 (5.7%) in taxes for their $50 in groceries. Family 2 pays $14.25 (5.7%) in taxes for their $250 in groceries. Family 2 pay more, but, isn't this system more fair? |
| 2011-02-18 10:12 AM in reply to: #3361538 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. Ah ... no. High income workers do not use BadgerCare or Medicare. They do not receive unemployment compensation. They do not receive state or federal aid. They tend to send their kids to private schools, so, they do not use public education. They tend not to ride the bus or use public transportation. High income workers generally do not use anywhere near the state or federal resources as lower income. So, these people have NOT "gained more from the government system." To the contrary. They pay more in income and property taxes. They also tend to spend more so they pay more in sales taxes. They certainly have not gained from the government system. |
| 2011-02-18 10:12 AM in reply to: #3361538 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: burhed - 2011-02-18 10:57 AM I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. I'm sorry? That is probably the silliest statement I've heard all day. The bottom 50% are the ones that get medicade, medicare, welfare, food stamps, public assistance, housing assistance, free cell phones etc etc etc The top 50% don't get any of that. So how are the top earners getting more services? In fact if it were not for these higher income people the low income people would not have ANY of these services. Edited by TriRSquared 2011-02-18 10:13 AM |
| 2011-02-18 10:13 AM in reply to: #3361555 |
| Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: trinnas - 2011-02-18 8:03 AM burhed - 2011-02-18 10:57 AM Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 9:40 AM I've never understood this argument, but maybe I just haven't taken the time to really look at the numbers. If there was a flat tax wouldn't the top 1% still end up paying more than the lower 50%? Just the nature of making more money. That's a serious question. I had this discussion a few months ago here about why it sounds like such bad thing that high income workers pay a higher percent. Those people tend to have gained more from the government system. burhed - 2011-02-18 9:27 AM How you get class warfare out of increasing taxes a bit on high income workers is beyond me. To me warfare is when at least one party ends up in a much worse situation. Having people that make roughly $50k per year have to pay $400 more per month versus somebody making over $100k pay a couple of percent more seems like the lower income would loose. If that were the case for me I wouldn't have bought an Ipad this year (oh, big loss), for the others it would mean not being able to make a house payment. To me, class warfare is when a candidate demonizes an income class by running a campaign based almost entirely on the mantra "I'm gonna make the rich pay their fair share". The rich...and the not so rich...ARE paying more than their fair share: Top 1% ($410,096+) pays roughly 40% of Fed income taxes The bottom 50% (0 to $32,878) pays less than 3% of Fed income taxes what the heck is fair about these numbers??????????????????? Yes they would still end up paying more but the numbers would be flatter. and how exactly are you saying they got more from the government system? They had the same education and opportunities as anyone else. I'm speculating here but it seems that a lot of people with this mindset believe that all things belong to the government (the collective) and it is the governments duty/obligation to decide who gets to keep and/or get what the government decides. |
| 2011-02-18 10:24 AM in reply to: #3361579 |
Pro 4675 Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - I'm speculating here but it seems that a lot of people with this mindset believe that all things belong to the government (the collective) and it is the governments duty/obligation to decide who gets to keep and/or get what the government decides. These are the same people who cried "we can't afford to "pay for" the extension of the Bush tax cuts to the rich". Ummm...you aren't "paying for" anything. You are simply taking less money out of their wallet. If you ignore the fact that you are taking less out of their wallet, yet continue to spend money like crazy the resulting deficits are your fault, not the rich. |
| 2011-02-18 10:37 AM in reply to: #3361598 |
Pro 3906 Libertyville, IL | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: Birkierunner - 2011-02-18 10:24 AM And thats a huge problem. Its never a spending problem, its always a taxation issue in some folks eyes.crusevegas - I'm speculating here but it seems that a lot of people with this mindset believe that all things belong to the government (the collective) and it is the governments duty/obligation to decide who gets to keep and/or get what the government decides. These are the same people who cried "we can't afford to "pay for" the extension of the Bush tax cuts to the rich". Ummm...you aren't "paying for" anything. You are simply taking less money out of their wallet. If you ignore the fact that you are taking less out of their wallet, yet continue to spend money like crazy the resulting deficits are your fault, not the rich. |
| 2011-02-18 10:37 AM in reply to: #3361479 |
Extreme Veteran 312 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-02-18 9:30 AM burhed - 2011-02-18 7:17 AM crusevegas - 2011-02-18 8:08 AM Just as people mention that "if you don't like your salary or benefits working in the public sector then go find a job in private". If you don't like who your company / union is giving money to go find a job else where. I think this is a poor argument. I work for very large company that I know gives money to political parties that I don't agree with. In theory that money could go back in to my salary right? Or if you want to talk about the taxes we all hate, I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but my tax money still goes to support that.JSA brought up a good point or question which I find curious as well, why are the WI state employees forced to join a group that contributes so much money to a political party they may not agree with? Welcome to BT JSA, good stuff on this topic. Some of the differences are those are tax dollars that the state employees are being paid with, there is no competition within the state for another state job that doesn't have a union and the thing that truly concerns me the most is what looks like an un-holy alliance between the DNC, the Unions and the CPUSA. It's not the employeer that's sending the money, it's the gang you have to join to get the job that's doing the bribing contributing. What industry is better off today than it was 20 years ago that is Union? 1 - Federal, state & local workers unions. They have grown and their benefits are obscene for the jobs (in most cases) that they are providing. Unions have destroyed the US car industry (and the dumb execs who gave into their strong-arm tactics). They have driven hundreds of thousands of jobs overseas and have actually kept pay down for the best of their members. I have many friends in the trades and they HATE being part of the union because they get paid less and bad performers are paid very well. Taking all arguments aside - how does the state unions expect a budget crises get solved if they NEVER want to share any pain. |
| 2011-02-18 10:39 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I have to be honest...I'm too emotionally invested in this to respond to all of you properly. Everyone time I start writing, I have a wall of text. I'm just going to stop. PLEASE and I am begging you, PLEASE...if you are downtown tomorrow, whether for or against the bill, keep it peaceful. Please. There have been death threats to friends of mine from Vicki McKenna and her cronies and there has been an ungodly amount of talk about weapons. If you don't believe me, go to Vicki McKenna's Facebook page and read for yourself. Things get posted a mile a minute there, so it might get buried, but it's truly frightening. If you or anyone you know will be downtown tomorrow, please please please be safe. Let's just peacefully agree to disagree with each other. |
| 2011-02-18 10:39 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Member 347 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I blame Favre.... |
| 2011-02-18 10:40 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: So I've read about some of this but I haven't enveloped myself in the story. Like others, I find it reprehensible that the Dems are taking advantage of this for vote posturing, all the way up to Obama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/maryhough/gGMblC?override_wrapper_id=7w3hc). Maybe I'm wrong here and someone more in tune with the situation can correct me but I doubt the dems cared much about the situation until it became national news. I would go as far to say some of these people probably planned to vote for the bill, until they saw an oppurtunity to really hurt the other party. |
| 2011-02-18 10:41 AM in reply to: #3361624 |
Expert 1002 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: furiousferret - 2011-02-18 10:40 AM So I've read about some of this but I haven't enveloped myself in the story. Like others, I find it reprehensible that the Dems are taking advantage of this for vote posturing, all the way up to Obama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/maryhough/gGMblC?override_wrapper_id=7w3hc). Maybe I'm wrong here and someone more in tune with the situation can correct me but I doubt the dems cared much about the situation until it became national news. I would go as far to say some of these people probably planned to vote for the bill, until they saw an oppurtunity to really hurt the other party. No, definitely not true at all. We have been fighting this for 5 days now, before it was even local news. |
| 2011-02-18 10:44 AM in reply to: #3357526 |
Master 2447 White Oak, Texas | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: I’m not going to repost all of the ongoing argument but please explain who told the family to have the 6 kids? And explain why it is the role of the government to compensate them for this decision. And why my tax should be higher because another family chose to have more children. Also I am very surprised this thread has not been pulled just from the opening title. |
| 2011-02-18 10:49 AM in reply to: #3361479 |
| Extreme Veteran 340 | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: crusevegas - 2011-02-18 8:30 AM What industry is better off today than it was 20 years ago that is Union? The NFL.  |
| 2011-02-18 10:52 AM in reply to: #3361619 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Dear Gov. D-bag of WI: UWMadTri - 2011-02-18 10:39 AM I have to be honest...I'm too emotionally invested in this to respond to all of you properly. Everyone time I start writing, I have a wall of text. I'm just going to stop. PLEASE and I am begging you, PLEASE...if you are downtown tomorrow, whether for or against the bill, keep it peaceful. Please. There have been death threats to friends of mine from Vicki McKenna and her cronies and there has been an ungodly amount of talk about weapons. If you don't believe me, go to Vicki McKenna's Facebook page and read for yourself. Things get posted a mile a minute there, so it might get buried, but it's truly frightening. If you or anyone you know will be downtown tomorrow, please please please be safe. Let's just peacefully agree to disagree with each other. Care to expound on some of these "death threats" to friends of yours from Vicki McKenna and her cronies??? |
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