Baowolf's Mentor Group- Closed (Page 8)

Mike- how you went from not knowing how to swim and swimming the pace you do, in 2 years, is simply amazing! Elena- I know how you feel about not getting faster. I'm actually looking forward to getting IM over so I can start focusing on other things, like getting faster. You REALLY did do well in your race! Joe- HIM in September? That'll be cool. I think that's the date my first HIM was last year. Steve - glad to hear swimming is not bothering your shoulder. Ken - I've thought about you and wondered if you join us again. How is the injury healing? Weather has turned wet and cold here. Glad it's my recovery week.

Good afternoon everyone!

Since everyone is sharing their where was I for their first race, I'll be happy to share mine. I did a sprint triathlon in August in Western Massachusetts with almost NO training. I had just finished the Boston Marathon 4 months prior and that was (at the time) the pinnacle for me endurance racewise. I did some work on my swimming but hadn't run or biked at all. The result was predictable! It was a painful race full of mistakes and cramping all over my body. I vividly remember telling myself "Jay, this is what you get for not training!" However, during that race, I fell in love with triathlon! I made it through that half mile swim and didn't DIE like I thought I would! I had a good moment on the bike where there was a downhill followed by an uphill that I hit PERFECTLY so I hauled butt down the hill and then cruised up the hill...I remember thinking how cool that was. The run...well, I'm a runner so that was just been there done that...but the race was organized so well...best race outside of Boston and the NBHM I've ever done. I found the competitors to be very kind and supportive...and that's how I got motivated to really train for future triathlons!

So with that out of the way

Samantha: Nice to see you still hanging around dispite the crazy training hours!

Mike: Very cool story about your first triathlon experience...you're more risky than I'd be

Anthony: Nice to see you as well!

Carol: 25 years of marraige, that's awesome. You've nearly doubled up my wife and I

Elena: Congrats on the race improvement dispite the hurdles you encountered. As far as your bike question...I just keep coming back to the fact that we can't race our best everytime out. The miles show you put in the work...for whatever reason, you just didn't have your cycling legs...running legs, you sure did! Oh yea, I owe you a definition of meathead but I can't find a good enough image...best I can do is reference Happy Gilmore. At the end of the movie, you'll see a guy in Zumbas and a string tanktop running after Shooter McGavin!

Ken: Nice to see you again. How's the achilles coming along?

Steve: Just chalk up the brick to one of those days on the bike. As Samantha noted, be happy your shoulder isn't bothering you anymore!

Today I did my long bike ride of 32 miles and had a respectable average of 15.75MPH. The good news is that I didn't have any saddle issues or any discomfort on the bike. The bad news is that I realized that my legs aren't in good cycling shape. I really feel the hills in my legs and my HR jumps when I hit a big hill. I realize that I just started biking recently so I'm dealing with growing pains but I've always been blessed with very strong legs. I was hoping that my speed would increase as I improved my cycling leg strength but Steve blew that theory out of the water. Ironically, i went to PT after the run and they proceeded to kick my butt. It wasn't the usual lifting weight, etc No, it was lets see how you do with plyometrics, balancing, and jump roping. I loved it but not 30 minutes after a long bike ride lol.

Wecome Ken, update us how are you doing?

Ok more Samantha math, lets assume that you swim, bike and run at the slow full fatigue load that you have been doing your long workouts at over the past 2 weeks that is: your swim 1:35, bike 8:00, Run 5:41 T1+t2 15:00= 15:30 with 1:30 of oh crap slush time for your IM. So with 3 weeks of taper you don't even have to go as fast as you did in your past long gueling workouts. I know it doesn't make all the anxiety go away, but you have this. You can even take a 1 hour nap half way through the run and still make it in time....

Edited by Baowolf 2013-05-23 1:41 AM

Jay - Way to fit in the WO's, PT and all. I have this funny mental picture of that PT visit.

Steve - That Samatha math looks all to familiar to what I do before my races. Maybe we show show up at CDAIM at the marthon mid way point with a cot and alarm clock for her.

The heat was out again yesterday 83 degrees or so. I took the bike out and during the ride was pretty good but as soon as I got off the sweat started dripping. The next few days are all about the run.

Hey there! Thanks for the anniversary wishes. Our trip was cancelled last minute. Bags totally packed and ready to go...except....felt a bit off Tues night, and then sore throat the morning we were supposed to fly out. I have picked up the cold that sidelined Kerry for the last several days. We decided it just wasn't worth it to go all that way just to feel like carp and pass the cough syrup bottle back and forth. Disappointed...yes. But if 25 yrs have showed us one thing, it is that it's not where you are, its being together that counts. Keeping it all on the down low so we can at least have a vacation from work.

Jay, kinda nice you had back to back workouts to challenge you like that. As for bike fitness issues, I'm also proof that "just riding" does not beget speed. However, it does increase comfort level on the bike, and helps me to enjoy the ride a lot more.

Carol -- what a bummer!!! I'm so sorry to hear about the trip.

Nothing like getting into PJ's, getting ice cream (or hot tea) and snuggling under a heavy comforter together while watching a movie. OK, Hawaii might be better, but we've got to work with what we've got
Hope you both feel better.

Mitzi

Carol - you have an amazing attitude. While my wife is very easy going and understanding I'm not sure she would have such a positiver attitude like you! You are such a breath of fresh air!

God to see you Ken

Looking good jay

Samantha - You're going to start to feel much more energetic once you taper. I think you are going to do a lot better than you think!

I saw people sharing their first Triathlon experience. My first triathlon ever was a FULL IM. In 2011. I bought a bike about 4 month prior to the race. Did the grunt of my biking at the gym.. I also hurt my ankle a month out so I missed some key long runs. I had never swam competitively and had no idea how to swim properly. 4 months of masters classes and I did a 1:10 IM swim! All that being said the biggest issue I had was nutrition. My lack of experience really showed through as I my nutrition was way too concentrated and I could not take in anything after about mile 80 on the bike. That equaled a 6 1/2 hour marathon but I finished the race in time and am Now an Ironman. I figured if I started big everything after that would be a piece of cake..

Did a spin class this morn and a 3.5 mile run. Feeling pretty good after my much needed recovery week. Things are getting better and I think I'm doing this correctly by not pushing too hard and signing up for races yet. Just still building my base of injury prevention and getting ready to really put in some miles.

Happy training everyone!

Mitch- Rock on! man I cant wait till i get the courage to do an IM. Until then i am going to continue building a base training.

Samantha- Which training schedule are you using. Just curious cause as I build my training up throughout this year will be looking at some longer distances in 2014.

Ken- Hey man I am new to the group and I am trying to get in the mix of everyones names and training. Good to see you posting.

Shame on me for the lack of training the last two days. Been preparing for Orlando vacation and working extra. I am swimming and running on vacation though. Leaving today Woohoo!!!!

PS. Carol- I hope you and your husband get to feeling better. What an incredible achievement and example of 25 years!!!

Mitch that is why it is good to screw up a Sprint tri, work out the bugs for a HIM and figure out nutrition for the longer distance and then hit an IM after a year or two doing shorter stuff. I know it does not easily fit into the Type A handbook, but it makes for a more pleasant day for your IM. But now you are wise and can pass that on to others who can learn from your experience. As my view of triathlon is that it is a lifestyle and one builds within their ability and then pushes intensity once a solid base is in place, I may rub out Type A's the wrong way from time to time. I fully understand wanting to just go out there and do something, but my brother taught me (by getting us lost int he smokey mountains until like 2 am) that shortcuts often lead to much stumbling in the dark as tempted as we are to take them.

And yes Samantha, you will be getting to giddy energy levels during your taper and going completely nuts sending emails to the RD asking if he can move the race up a week just so you can get strated already... well wanting to anyway.

Ken let us know what your status is, are you still on for your IM or has the MASH unit sidetracted you until next year?

Oh and I am not sure I would recommend Samantha's training schedule, it loads crazily on the weekends and doesn't follow some of the safety rules that I like to have in place for how fast you build distance on the run. But she is certainly free to share it if she wants.

Any decent plan builds 1 mile per week long run recovery week (.6 x distance) every 3rd or 4th week depending on how much recovery you need. Your long bike builds 5-10 miles per week depending on how much time you are allowing and same rule for taper. Swim is a 300 ish yard per week build on your long same deal on recovery. Then you just have your frequencies. I am kind of liking my 5x4x4 (RBS) plan I made. The extra 2 shorter swims have been helping with general swim fitness much more than I had expected. I go run heavy because in an IM you need a strong run base to be able to hold a decent pace on the run. Hopefully I can bring some intensity back into the workouts after my next recovery week.

Beginner plans tend ot max out at 40 mpm run, 195 miles per week bike and 10,000 yards swim per week.
Intermediate plans tend to max out at 50 mpm run, 250 mpw bike, 12,000 yards per week.
Advanced 60, 350, 15,000.

These are ballparks plans will vary.

Edited by Baowolf 2013-05-23 12:22 PM

Jared - I opted for a gold membership on BT and last year I trained for a half using their 16 week HIM plan, then their 24 week IM. I have done 5 run, 4 bike and 3 swim per week. I did more running because that was where I really wanted to gain endurance. As for actual mileage I shared what BT plan came up with with Steve and he helped me adjust as needed. Do you have a gold membership? There are some benefits with it that I really appreciate. Let me know if you want to know more. Does this answer your question?

Steve - thank you a million times over for doing the math. What an encouragement. I'm gonna give it all I got. Great job on keeping yourself healthy through your first build phase. I have a friend who is doing 120 miles on the bike this weekend and the longest ride she's done this season is 3 hours. I'm really curious to hear how it goes. She's a much Stronger athlete than I am but wow.

Carol - glad you and Kerry enjoy each other so much that a special place isn't what makes time together special. Though I'm sad you are sick and missing vaca away. Get better!

All the encouragement from y'all is just wonderful. The race is one month from today. Crazy to think about. I looking forward to feeling energized again. I head to Canada today so I may not post again til next week. I'll be thinkin bout y'all. Have a great weekend and train well!

Here's a list of our group so far. Anyone know Blosika's name?

Steve/ Baowolf (our tried & trusted mentor :D )
Mitzi/musclemomma
Mike/MikeD
Carol/squirt
Anthony/antwonathon
Julie/Jlkmommy
Samantha/Antalynn
Mitch/mitchparadise
Elena/EV3110
Jay/Mederios13
Pam/PinkSocks
Joe/JoeReeser
Courtney/tribeagle
Larry/quasimoto
Joe/Trisolar
Jared/jhight
Cheryl/dchill1
Ken/kmatt318
/blosika

Yes, I am seeing that its much more than time in the saddle if I want bike pace to increase. In retrospect I (think I) ride hard but really never where I am "uncomfortable" and definitely never at LT. Thx Steve. Intervals. Increased effort. Gotta do it. I've never done LT test for bike. Just don't think I can push myself like I am supposed to to generate accurate LT /zone #s. However I am determined to do more rides with maximum effort moments interspersed! Probably won't make any difference on July's HIM but still needs to be done!


Carol: Hope you and your husband feel better soon. Sorry your trip was put on hold.
Mitch: Your first tri EVER was a full ironman???!!! You were brave...or crazy! And yet you did it. And that is what's awesome.
Jared: Last yr I used BT's free HIM plan. It is minimal with bike in my opinion. I upgraded to silver membership this yr and using HIM plan. I like it a lot ...but always trying to keep up! And hey, you're still running and swimming while on vacay? Be proud you are doing something! I always say I going to keep up with the workouts and well, I NEVER do.

Funny. Husband asked about upcoming 3-day wknd. First thing he asked was "What kind of training do you have this weekend? Will we be able to go anywhere?" LOL. I think he's getting it!!! haha

Good afternoon everyone.

Its nice to see our board getting active again. Steve, those sample training numbers you posted are scary! I'm assuming that 10K, 195MI bike, etc is for IM training? While I'm asking questions...is it normal for your calves to be sore from riding fairly hard? New to this so not sure what's normal and what isn't like I would be with running.

Mitch: Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying to follow you and Steve and build a good base to prevent injuries.

Jared: I'd suggest going to your local library and finding Don Fink's IronFit. Even if you don't want to read it, there are sample training plans in there that many have used successfully. (Steve has confirmed this) I made a spreadsheet of his IM plan with the plan of referencing it when the time/desire came to train. I suggest that only because it'll give you a skeleton to start with...then you can adjust to your life and/or good advice you get from others.

Elena: You can add me to the need to do the LT test. I got a book from the library on Heart Rate Training and within that I found a max HR test for biking. They suggest a 5-8 mile warm up, followed by a 600-1000M hill (as hard as you can), 2-3 mile recovery....repeat until you've done the hill 3x. The theory is that your max HR will be achieved at the end of the 3rd climb and you find your training zones from there.

That's about it for now. I'll be rooting on the Bruins tonight and back on the trainer in the AM. My monthly weigh in is lurking for early next week...we shall see how I've done...kinda like posting monthly training numbers

Last night, finally got a few min to post and then as I hit the Submit, poof, all evaporated. I think it was my laptop. Far too ticked after that to repost.

Carol, Sweetheart, I’m so sorry about the trip! Can you reschedule? I do love your attitude tho. Misty’s thought of p.j. and movies sounds like a good one tho. Feel better soon. And Happy 25 years to you! Hubby and I celebrated 19 years this week; he is out of town and I was working the scoreboard at a late ballgame. Not the most romantic anniversary but we’ll get some time together soon.

Mitch and Jared, love hearing about the girls practicing their swim kicks. I miss that party in my belly feeling. Love both of the girl’s names.

Misty, as far as the logging, I can’t add a new activity when I’m on the work computer. I think it’s because of IE 7; at home I have IE8 and it works fine. As a sloppy workaround when I can't add activity, I place my workouts in the Blog portion. Then when I’m on a computer that allows me to Add Activity, I copy the blog into the Activity and remove the blog. Yep, it’s a pain. But I’d rather go ahead and log my activity asap and then deal with the sorting out later.

Who has read Iron War? {Steve, I know that if you read it, you really liked the part about the pyschology of tris.} I'm about a third of the way through and am completely enjoying it. The original story is about the '89 IM battle between Dave Scott and Mark Allen; please don't tell me who wins because while I think I know, I'm reading the book like a mystery novel. It is also a great history of IM. And they definitely credit Julie Moss' crawl with the IM explosion.

I know that I had more to say in my post last night but I can’t remember it. Quick brag tho. My son was one of the few freshmen invited to be on the varsity baseball team for the summer. It may not work out because of scheduling issues but I’m still proud of him.

I’ve done no s/b/r this week. Partly because of the toe but really that is a cop-out. I've had a hectic schedule with hubby out of town and I've just didn't feel like giving up any more sleep since I'm operating on about 5 hours a night his week. Hopefully I can do some things over the long weekend. All may be slow but it would be nice to just do something.

I've got a question tho. Does anyone anywhere experience the excruiating charley horses in their calves in the middle of the night during their rest days? I may have some calf pains during builds but it's during the days. But I've noticed that any time I go for a couple of days or so of not running - well, I'm awakened during the night with the intense pains. The sound-asleep-and-then-suddently-jumping-out-of-bed-screaming-with-pain kind of charley horses. Logic?

Ok, gotta go check on some things for son's baseball. Night All....

Stretching calves regularly is good. So in a taper or recovery week your calves are healing and it is not too too uncommon for them to hurt in the middle of the night as they heal up.

Yes those numbers were for peak IM training.

Calves often hurt on the bike if you are pulling up on the backstroke and if you are toeing the pedal rather than keeping your shoes parallel to the ground. Use a marathon stick on the calve to get decent relief.

Good morning folks! I'm heading off for much of the weekend with my youngest daughter to an out of state soccer tournament. Not a good forcast (50's, drizzle/rain), but will make do, and regardless it will be fun to hang out with her, and to watch her play. I'm bringing some running gear so I can get in a couple runs while there.

Knowing the bike/swim wan't a reality, I did 1:40 on the bike this AM and logged 26.5 miles while doing the Sufferfests "Blender" video which is intended for building endurance. Here's a little info/preview of it if you are curious. If you find trainer rides tedious, the Sufferfest is a GREAT way to get a solid workout done, and be entertained at the same time http://www.thesufferfest.com/video-sufferfests/blender/

Hope everyone has a great weekend, and I'll be in touch Sunday/Monday or so. Only 3 weeks to HIM #1 of the season.

Elaine - thanks for the list.

I will feel dishonest if I don't correct a misperception. When I said I was afraid of cars - it was more like I'm so shaky on my bike that I'm afraid I'll fall over into traffic. Now I'm laughing when I say traffic. I live in the country! Lots of hills, but lots of back roads. The big routes here are basically off roads for the highway. The one time I went out there was a steady line of cars- one every few minutes. Mostly neighbors coming home from work - a few waving to me as they passed. Sucked in my belly and tried to look brave.

I'm from NYC so my childhood biking was going round and round on city blocks. My hubby is from around here so he can jump over rocks and ride through the woods. He took me out a few years back and while struggling up a hill my front tire slowly came off the ground and I went tumbling backwards. I guess I should have known not to lean back going uphill. He found it quite amusing. I've got to get out during the day when there will be less "traffic" until I get used to riding. When I did my first sprint 5 years ago, up to 2 years ago when the bike went into the garage, I was pretty comfortable on the bike, so I know it will come back, though I have always been afraid of going downhill too fast.

Ran 1.6 miles yesterday and swimming is up from 300 to 1100 yds a session. While I love the challenge, it's sooo hard. During the run I was telling myself that I set a reasonable goal (my plans 1.6 miles), that I can do it and I committed to it and will do it! And I did! My irrational side says that I've been at this 6 weeks now, why is it still so hard!?
Rational side sees that I'm am overweight, never was much of a cardio person and that it TAKES TIME.

I like the idea of building a base, and think that will happen a bit for my oly at the end of Aug. Looking forward to building a real base this winter for 2014.

Plan calls for my first brick and have to get a s/b/r in today to get all my planned workouts in without losing my rest day tomorrow. It is my recovery week, so they aren't too bad.

Really enjoy all the posts and updates on peoples training.
Mitzi

Edited by MuscleMomma 2013-05-24 9:59 AM

Pam: Iron War is on my list of books to read. Have about 1,693 on that list of books. Lol.
Mike, very cool video. Enticing. I don't own a trainer but have been contemplating buying one. There are those days (like when the kids got real sick) that I wished I had one. Do you think the resistance can help in becoming a stronger cyclist? Only reason I haven't bought one is because I assume that getting out on the road is "better" and if cant make me a stonger biker, then why buy? Your 2cents? Steve?
Mitzi, you last post made me laugh out loud several times. Yeah those county road sometimes are used like speedways here too. The only time they are not are early Sunday mornings. Sometimes odd to not have any vehicles pass you. The longer workouts will come. Promise. Don't push it. And sorry. Some days it not easier! Some days the short runs just about take you out & long workouts are great! Hey, wonderfull profess on your swim! Run is coming too. It's all progress! Congrats!! Oh, and your first brick... Should be fun. Don't think about what you are doing. Just do it!!

Edited by EV3110 2013-05-24 1:35 PM

Hrm recovery week not as refreshing as I was hoping. Run meh swim decent.

So for those interested in LT test. It is 1 LT test for run and a separate one for bike. They are often different by 10 bpm.

Same idea for both, warmup 10 minutes, then all out sustained hardest effort for 30 minutes clock HR for last 20 minutes, average last 20 minutes that is your LT for determining HR zones. Plug it into BT calculator. It is predictable, reproducible. Then cool down 10 min, walk if need be.

Carol - Please feel better. One year my daughter was 5 or so and we were in Orlando visiting the in laws. She get a 103 fever and so off to the ER we go. Ugh! Mind you this was Christmas day. Get back home and my wife is not feeling good and end up in the ER again, this time on New years day. It's the memories. Right?

Add me to the list of people who need to do the LT test. I have been collecting HR data but really using it more to compare to RPE that anything else at this point. The reading suggestions are great.

The weather made a funny change from 80+ to start the week to 47, rain, and crazy 20+ MPH winds. I fit in a run the past two days and will look to fit in one more today.

Hello everyone. Glad to see its an active group again. Lots of questions and knowledge being asked and given lately.

Sorry I haven't been keeping up much lately - just a lot going on in RL right now. Training has been the same lately - a little here and there, but next week is going to be the start of my consistent training.

I just want to throw a couple things out there real quick.

Jay you mentioned a quick way of finding max HR on the bike. I read a similar one for running where you warm up with a 2 mile run and then sprint up a large hill - one that takes 30-60 seconds to get to the top. Do this 3 times for the same reasoning you had in your post. Not quite as scientific or accurate as what Steve suggests, but its about 1000 times more scientific than 220 - age.

And then I've been seeing a lot of questions about how to get faster on the bike. I began biking last year, so I don't have tons of experience, but I did make some pretty decent gains last summer. So just my thoughts real quick.

Trainers - i dont have one yet, but the thing about a trainer is it keeps you honest. What I mean by that is you have no opportunities to freewheel as you do out on the road. So the only way to keep the wheel moving is to keep pedaling. Another good thing is you can focus a lot more on your workout because you don't need to dodge cars and turn and all the other things out on the road. I went to the gym a couple nights ago and did a hard ride on the stationary bike and had a bit of a wake-up in my biking. I was pushing hard and found that I had to constantly be concentrating on my cadence. If I would daydream for 5 seconds, my cadence would drop 10 beats or so.

So my view of the bike is this. The fastest person is going to be the one that can endure the most pain over the duration of the ride. It may not be totally true, but mental toughness is what I find to be my biggest limiter. If your legs are screaming at you to stop and your mind is thinking about turning around to go back home NOW, then you are pushing hard and getting faster. Just my $0.02 based on my 1 year of experience and lots of BT and ST reading.

Happy training everyone!

I did a nice 3,1 with the running group this morn. tried to keep up with the ringers but not there yet. Still averaged a 7:45 pace or so. Very happy with that considering where I'm at with my training.

Hope everyone has a very safe and fun holiday weekend. Make sure to get out and sweat.

10 miler for me tomorrow. 1st double digit in quite a while!

So with the bike you do have to ride lots and do hard workouts that is true. But it is not a constant hard effort. Like with running and swimming you do sets of hard with recovery. So like in my workouts above you do 30 seconds hard, 30 sec recover x 10 as your main set. Then you do 1:00 hard 1:00 recovery x 10 as your main set. Then you do 2:00, 1:00 etc. You can't just go from 16 mph and will yourself to 22 mph. So today for me I focused on increasing my cadence and increased average cadence by 6 over 40 miles. I won't start intervals for another training cycle. I want to get back over 150 miles a week on the bike before stressing muscle groups. As with all of these sports if you do not have the base, intensity will hurt muscles too much, but with bike it is more forgiving to do intensity sooner than the other two.

Oh and the edge between beginner cyclist and intermediate is 5000 miles a year. 8).

Edited by Baowolf 2013-05-25 3:37 PM