THE SLAYER RULES-FULL Up (Page 9)

Wow! lots of good info to learn from.  That looks like a solid plan Rich.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I know I will appreciate the help/support going forward.

Last night turned into a race 6K run. Went out with no specific goal but to get 6K done, but ended up running with a group of about a dozen runners and my buddy Mitch picked up the pace and then I followed along. He blamed me. But basically we did 5minutes/K for the run, so that is pretty well my 5K race pace for me. Felt good after we were done.

@rich

One of good ideas for bike part is to set up an alarm every 10-15 minutes. When the beep goes on one time - drink, when it goes another time - eat and drink.

For long course race nutrition, I do liquids only. I prefer a mixture of carbopro and EFS powder and make either a 3 or 6 hour bottle (2x3) and drink 1/3 of it every hour. Thats behind my seat.In a 3 hour bottle, I do 2 large scoops of EFS and 6 scoops carbopro. Nowadays you can buy concentrated carbopro, and dilute as needed.

I keep water in my speedfil right up by my face. I like to use flavored prepackaged (lemon) water. I am not a big fan of gels but sometimes have a couple. I prefer roctane gu if necessary. I limit solids. Likewise, with salt tabs, especially if its hot, like it can get in Florida midday even in Nov. I take 2 before the race and try to take two every hour on those hot and humid days. EDIT to ADD: store these in a little waterproof pill box that you can get at a pharmacy.

The alarm thing works for alot of folks and I did that at IMAZ in 09 (every 5 mi on the bike I beeped my garmin). But this newer hour method suits me better and is less complicated.I may be repeating myself so sorry if I am.

I want to discuss recovery more. I don't take weeks. I do micro-recovery cycles. If I need a day here or there I take it and I try to build swim Monday am as an easier day. I also like to have easier "bridge" days between two bigger workouts. I am not really sure why everyone is doing the 3+1 weeks or the 10 day then break?

I also read a nice statement that resonated with me and was sparked with the recent comments here. It was not to race in training, but to save it for race day. I never looked at it like that until recently. WHat are you thoughts on recovery and keeping training softer than race day?

I was just looking back at my training leading up to Augusta last year. I thought that I remembered some shorter weeks but looking back, timewise, all my weeks were pretty much equal. My bigger training days were obviously the weekends so to bookend the big weekends, Fridays were generally just a swim and Monday's were a computrainer session with an option of an easy spin if i was dead from the weekend. I generally got one complete off day every 2 weeks. 

This worked out well for me as far as a recovery standpoint. I never felt exhausted or burnt out. My coach does give a lot of Z2 work which is easier to recover from day to day. Also, we did a lot of active recovery days. Something like a 3 hour low Z2 ride. Those were rough from a boredom standpoint but got you out training without putting a lot of stress on the body. Training partners were a lifesaver on those days. 

The 3/1 is out of Friel's book, at least thats where Ive seen it referenced the most.  Ive done most of my training based on that, especially with run training, but I dont go to the extremes that he calls for, which is like a 50% drop in training hours for the 4th week.  I usually keep my training hours the same in the 4th week with a drop in intensity.  Gives me more training time with the wife, which goes along with the "spoil your wife early in the season" mentality.  Its also a good break mentally from pushing all the time, it brings the fun back to training.  And Ive found that right around the 18th or 19th day, my body is ready for a lighter load.  But by Friday of the recovery week, Im usually over it and can still put in a solid weekend of long workouts.  Its mostly about feel and flexibility in the training plan.

All that said, I havent done anything different, so Im open to hear what everyone else does. 

I'm coming around to the notion that recovery is individual and that a standard method doesn't make sense across the board. Our fatigue (recovery needs) is impacted by som much above and beyond training stress. Psychosocial stress, sleep routine, illness, etc can really conspire against each athlete in ways they may not recognize. Therefore, I think a fluid approach to recoveyr is probably best if you are not one of the lucky people that can get by with a standard approach. More and more as I age I see myself needing a day off or more and need to allow my body time to recover as it needs, not as my coach or some plan specifies. Getting to know your body well is key to maximizing performance I think. Communicating that to your coach if you have one helps alot too.

I also should let you know that my coach had a few words with me for putting those volume goals out there. Said that its really not fair to myself to become a slave to the numbers when my body/life may not allow for me to hit the marks. He'd prefer they were more aspirational than practical and I see his point.

on the HR monitor question, i never train with HR really seriously (for swim nobody really does that I am aware of, but many do for bike and run), so I am not the best one to ask. however, i do use a HR monitor often. sometimes it gives bad readings if the contact is off. its best to use that gel stuff they sell at pharmacies cheap to get the contact right. then you train with it a bit to get a feel for the readings and see if your initial ones emerge into a pattern.

then you can do some formal testing to set up some zones to train in. as you will see throughout, i am a big believer in heavy z2 (endurance zone) training for long course triathletes. To know the HR associated with that zone could be very useful. Of course, power, pace, and perceived effort are important too. In fact, my coach would say that HR is one of the more fallible measures due to the sources of error (i.e., hydration, fatigue, etc.)  I hope some others  will chime in here.

off to run 24 trail miles with jbyce. wish us luck!

Agreed, that as mature in life, your body does need additional rest/recovery. I have noticed, since I am in the more mature group, that if I take a week off completely, then I find I am more prone to injuries. So I tend to still run/bike/swim, but really tone down the intensity or time/distance. This way the muscles are kept moving (as limber as one can be in their early 50's) and then reduces the chances of a pull or tear.

Good luck with the trail, love trails, great way to improve your running too.

I think you have to push in intervals to be able to improve but if you train always as hard as you race you'll just end up being injured. There's a friend who was training last year and she had no recovery days so always did some effort but backed off. TBH I'm not sure but my recovery days are dictated by my work. I would love to not have days off but with all the travelling and long hours I just don't get the time to train every day so when I have days where they combine I take it as a rest. 

I don't think it's too bad a strategy as I seem to stay fairly injury and illness free!

I am having a hard time as well with trying to determine what my Z2 is. When i try and use the HR strap my heart rate sky rockets and then hovers around 160-170 and at that point i can still talk and put together sentences and I am not heaving or struggling. Now according to HR Zones for me 160-170 is high Z3 so that doesn't match up to how I feel.

Question for the group is what is the best way to determine your true HR Zones? Is it blood lactate testing or some other forms. For sake of saving money let's start with the most reliable way and dollars involved with each method?

I'd really like to get some sort of testing done so i can determine my true zones so i can train properly. I don't know if I am in Z2 or Z4 based on the HR monitor. By the way I am wearing Garmin 305 with the HR strap.

Slayer forgot to ask are you guys running at Yargo anytime? Yargo has a half marathon and a full marathon coming up in February.

Disclaimer: I train for the most part by feel. I do look at HR but mainly b/c I like looking at data.

Zones: I determined my running zones by running a 10K. I was toast at the end. I took my AVG HR for the last 30 min and used that number as my Threshold or whatever anyone wants to call it today. I do plan on training more with power and HR this year on the bike so I am planning on doing a BLT once I get my new bike and powermeter. 

One thing I learned about Z2. It is stupid, ridiculously easy. I thought I was running in Z2 until I started looking at HR. I was more in Z3. After a Z2 run, you should feel like you could go and do the exact same workout again no problem at all. It's actually difficult for me to run in Z2. Pace wise, my Z2 runs are about 2:00/mi slower than my 10k pace. 

There are some sites that will give you an idea of your zones based on age see below. This is a good way to start.

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/heart_rate/heart_rate_zone_calculator_abcc_bcf.html

es just let us know and we will run some trails with you at yargo! today was perfect but tough. jbyce hates the heat but the trails were fairly shaded. there is that race at end of feb but im doing albany ga snickers mary a week later so if i do it it will be tame and probably the half at most. truth be told, im not really into the mary at albany but will have a go. dont need another bq for my ego. just enjoy trail running lately.

as to the HR discussion, scotty talks truth. "I train for the most part by feel." Learn to train by feel and then you dont need a bunch of gadgets. saves money and gets the job done! we all think its the gear and gadgets that gets the results. its not. its the hard work and solid recovery that we are discussing. hard can be defined in different ways but for my best results appears to be:

1. heavy low intensity volume in z2 (conversational/endurance) in all3sports but as little swim as needed to be fresh for bike an run

2. sprinkle in vo2/high intensity (z4) then

3. more tempo or zone 3 as you approach race day

This can all be done by perceived effort. I really dont think science can turn a regular phat into a kona qualifier. to get to your high end, steady diet of z2 work is key!

kate

i agree with intervals/vo2 work but i think the best payoff comes from sprinkles of it not heavy doses. hard to argue with your results though. it may be best for you though!

I think I'll follow your advice tonight and skip my swim workout.  Darn it, I still feel like crap.

Determining Run Training Zones 

In running we want to know our heart rate training zones as well. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. This is best if done on a flat uninterrupted path or trail. 

Run test protocol: 

After a 15 minute warm-up of easy running, finish with a few quick 20 seconds bursts to get your heart rate in the correct training zone.

• The 30 minute TT begins.
• At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.
• The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.
• You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

15 minutes easy cool down. 

--> Plug in the run LT # from the above test into the BT Heart-rate zone calculator to get your training zones.

Determining Run Training Zones 

In running we want to know our heart rate training zones as well. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. This is best if done on a flat uninterrupted path or trail. 

Run test protocol: 

After a 15 minute warm-up of easy running, finish with a few quick 20 seconds bursts to get your heart rate in the correct training zone.

• The 30 minute TT begins.
• At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.
• The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.
• You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

15 minutes easy cool down. 

--> Plug in the run LT # from the above test into the BT Heart-rate zone calculator to get your training zones.

I am a strong believer in heart rate training. I really think it moves beginners up the learning curve faster, and can help experienced runners prevent a meltdown. I say that with some reservation because I don't use it on the run anymore because I am pretty sure which zone I am in by feel. I still watch my HR pretty close on the bike. It also is a good metric for a coach to follow. A good coach can tell if you are slacking on the workouts or overtraining just by looking at your HR.

It is a tool but not the magic bullet.  If it works for you I would use it, if not go by feel. New runners should learn what the zones feel like.

In the first 5-10 minutes you HR will be all over the place. Once you get warmed up it will be more reliable.

good call to bag it if you dont feel well and another good call to recognize that as Peter said "It is a tool but not the magic bullet.  If it works for you I would use it, if not go by feel. New runners should learn what the zones feel like.".

What have you all go on for the weekend? Havent heard from a few of the early posters in a bit. also need to pick out our next dissection.

This weekends activities:

• Friday night social run - 6K - Done
• Saturday morning - 2hrs group computrainer ride, followed by 30 minute run off the bike - Done (51K bike, avg HR 117, avg Watts 133), (5K run, avg HR 125)
• Sunday morning - 2hr 15m (20K) run - Done - 20.43K in 2:15, easy pace

That should be it for the weekend.

Edited to update weekend progress: