Where did all the BTers go? (Page 9)

Ok, since you are asking.

1. I feel, as I mentioned above that often, whether I start a new thread or reply that I am ignored. I am not sure why this is, it could be 100% on me whether it be the way I portray myself or my "tone" or maybe it's because I am female? I definitely can't say why. But I feel that I must be somehow qualified by someone else with an "x2" or something before what I say makes any impact, and at that point why not just let the "qualifier" do the talking. Again, I don't know why and I am not claiming to but it's how I feel.

2. LB, I'm going to candid and I think that you deserve honesty because I do respect you, and god knows you have thick skin (I do not!), but you can be kind of a jerk sometimes. This can't be news to you. Maybe you enjoy ruffling people's feathers, I don't know. I like discussing different theories, ideas and strategies because I realize there are a whole lot of ways to improve as an athlete and it is fascinating! But arguing on the internet isn't fun to me, especially when someone is being abrasive. Again, this is how I feel because I am specifically being asked. I cannot speak for anyone else. 

At the risk of sounding pompous yet again, I am going to repeat a post I made in 2010 on a somewhat similar thread regarding civility on BT.

Tech_Geezer’s Rules for Posting.

I am a long time member of this group and these are my rules for me. I really don’t expect others to share my views on use of the forums, but I do mean for my conduct to honor the ideals of Ron’s community that he described in the Guidelines for Healthy Discussion.

My goal in posting is to be informative or entertaining or, if possible, both. I only post if I have something unique, relevant, and personal to add. I do not repeat the conventional training wisdom; I give my own experience and ideas. If someone asks how to fix something and I’ve done it and know how, I tell them. If not, I let other people answer. I rarely pass on second hand information. When I do, I post the link rather than explain it myself. I generally try not to be the first responder to a question. I do not think I am likely to have the best information or most pertinent experience. Very often if I wait, my response is not needed at all. I do think every genuine question deserves an answer; so if a thread languishes for a while without a response, I will take a stab at it.

Humor is tricky. It makes the forums entertaining, but for me, it has to be good clean fun. I can make a joke about myself but I never make a joke at the expense of another person whether he or she is on this forum or not. This includes public figures. If I give offense, I apologize quickly and privately. Sarcasm is especially problematic. It can easily be misunderstood. Frequently, it has an element of criticism or making fun of someone. I just avoid it.

I mean to be the same person online as I am in real life or as closely as I can within the limitations of the medium. Of course this means to be absolutely truthful and precise about myself and my experience as I can be. If I ran 34:20, I say 34:20 not 34. I try to act my age and my marital status. I am 57 years old and married for 35 years to my high school sweetheart. I have little to add to a discussion among younger, single people about relationships so I stay out of these topics. That does not mean I don’t read them. I do find these discussions entertaining. Some of you are funny at a professional level. I just don’t post.

I try to use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Most of my professional work involves technical writing. I keep my Gregg Reference Manual and Merriam-Webster dictionary handy and use them when I need them. Because I need to be careful all the time, I do not change my writing style online. I do not mean to be a grammar snob. I never correct anyone else’s writing. Other people may not place the same importance on careful writing as I; yet I can almost always understand what they mean. That is all I need.

When I post something, I want to be understood by everyone. Most here do not know me personally; so I try to give any information they might need to know to understand the context. I do not use inside jokes or obliquely refer to things not known to the entire community.

I do not enter into debate. I rarely post more than once on a thread. If someone takes issue with what I said, I check my post. If it is clear and I have not been misunderstood, then I let both opinions stand on their merit and say nothing further. I find little satisfaction in political debate and avoid these topics. I ignore any negative, argumentative, or insulting comments made in the forums. I am not the moderator and do not want to be.

I mean to be a generous, helpful, and positive member of the community. I used to give to every worthy cause mentioned on the site. The solicitations have dropped off but I still give to people and causes when they crop up. These forums are about triathlons and all sorts of personal achievements. I try to take note of significant achievements from losing ten pounds to finishing an Ironman.

My posts have dropped off a great deal since I first joined the community in January 2004. I still read the forums daily but find very little that I can add. Yes kids, I do know I am boring, and yes maybe I have too many rules.

TW

Full disclosure:

I was not a member in 2010.

Some of that is fine, but somewhere in the middle of that post, and folks not being so sensitive, and having a thicker skin, is probably an answer that most people can live with. 

For example, I think debate is the best way to learn something new. Debate is good. I try to use correct grammar, and punctuation, but I don't care if everyone does....... I'm certainly not sitting by with a grammar book as I post.  Humor is not tricky, but everyone's sense of humor is not the same.....that's a good thing.

The idea of being helpful whenever possible is good, as is the idea of being truthful.

There's plenty of room for all kinds of people and all kinds of style here.

Thanks for sharing.  I have a couple thoughts:

1. I think that's part of the nature of a conversation in a forum.  I've frequently posted an answer to a question where the information I'm sharing I got directly from some of the most knowledgeable people in our sport, so I have a lot of confidence that I gave good advice, yet my reply is completely ignored when a couple other people chime in with an answer more in line with what the OP was hoping to hear.  Then the OP latches on to the other posts, without even acknowledging the other suggestions.  As long as it's not a situation where someone will be in serious danger by taking the bad advice, I've learned to just shrug, shake my head, and move on.  It used to bother me a lot when I witnessed people choosing ignorance, but then I realized that some people just want to hear what they want to hear, and it had nothing to do with what I (or you) said.  BTW, FWIW you're one of the people who's posts I always read with genuine interest.  There are some who I will just skim their post, or only read it for the entertainment value to see what their latest crack pot idea is.
2. You're right.  He is a jerk.  

 ETA:  Joking aside, I like discussions here with LB, because he's direct, and brings the perspective of the parent of a teenager racing near the highest level.  Those are both things that not too many people bring to these discussions.  I know I can be direct with him if I have a different perspective on the topic, and neither of us is going to offend the other.  Disagreeing with someone shouldn't mean that you don't respect them and their opinion.

Debate IS good.  Arguing sucks.  They're not the same thing.  If someone wants to argue, I'm going to check out.  If you want to debate ideas, concepts, options, perspectives, etc, then I'm all in, because we're all going to learn from it.

Shut up.

Me shut up?...If you weren't a jerk, people wouldn't be leaving BT en masse.  

Just curious, geezer, when you posted that in 2010 did some folks call you pompous?  I only ask because you said, "yet again".

Me shut up?...If you weren't a jerk, people wouldn't be leaving BT en masse.  

no, its just those two bozos fake arguing like the married couple they are

Is this comment poking fun at what I said?

Ok. And I do have a sense of humor. I just wanted to clarify. It seems that a lot of the culmination of issues are people speculating and not clarifying and maybe getting upset before doing so. 

I certainly don't think that the decline on BT is exclusively because of that either. That would be, impressive to say the least. But I do imagine anyone who is more on the sensitive side might see it that way, which is why I spoke up about it. 

Which is completely valid and something that people should consider.  But in general here, I don't think most people at least intentionally try to hurt others feelings.  At least outside of the COJ and PCOJ arena.

At the risk of sounding pompous yet again, I am going to repeat a post I made in 2010 on a somewhat similar thread regarding civility on BT.

Tech_Geezer’s Rules for Posting.

I am a long time member of this group and these are my rules for me. I really don’t expect others to share my views on use of the forums, but I do mean for my conduct to honor the ideals of Ron’s community that he described in the Guidelines for Healthy Discussion.

My goal in posting is to be informative or entertaining or, if possible, both. I only post if I have something unique, relevant, and personal to add. I do not repeat the conventional training wisdom; I give my own experience and ideas. If someone asks how to fix something and I’ve done it and know how, I tell them. If not, I let other people answer. I rarely pass on second hand information. When I do, I post the link rather than explain it myself. I generally try not to be the first responder to a question. I do not think I am likely to have the best information or most pertinent experience. Very often if I wait, my response is not needed at all. I do think every genuine question deserves an answer; so if a thread languishes for a while without a response, I will take a stab at it.

Humor is tricky. It makes the forums entertaining, but for me, it has to be good clean fun. I can make a joke about myself but I never make a joke at the expense of another person whether he or she is on this forum or not. This includes public figures. If I give offense, I apologize quickly and privately. Sarcasm is especially problematic. It can easily be misunderstood. Frequently, it has an element of criticism or making fun of someone. I just avoid it.

I mean to be the same person online as I am in real life or as closely as I can within the limitations of the medium. Of course this means to be absolutely truthful and precise about myself and my experience as I can be. If I ran 34:20, I say 34:20 not 34. I try to act my age and my marital status. I am 57 years old and married for 35 years to my high school sweetheart. I have little to add to a discussion among younger, single people about relationships so I stay out of these topics. That does not mean I don’t read them. I do find these discussions entertaining. Some of you are funny at a professional level. I just don’t post.

I try to use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Most of my professional work involves technical writing. I keep my Gregg Reference Manual and Merriam-Webster dictionary handy and use them when I need them. Because I need to be careful all the time, I do not change my writing style online. I do not mean to be a grammar snob. I never correct anyone else’s writing. Other people may not place the same importance on careful writing as I; yet I can almost always understand what they mean. That is all I need.

When I post something, I want to be understood by everyone. Most here do not know me personally; so I try to give any information they might need to know to understand the context. I do not use inside jokes or obliquely refer to things not known to the entire community.

I do not enter into debate. I rarely post more than once on a thread. If someone takes issue with what I said, I check my post. If it is clear and I have not been misunderstood, then I let both opinions stand on their merit and say nothing further. I find little satisfaction in political debate and avoid these topics. I ignore any negative, argumentative, or insulting comments made in the forums. I am not the moderator and do not want to be.

I mean to be a generous, helpful, and positive member of the community. I used to give to every worthy cause mentioned on the site. The solicitations have dropped off but I still give to people and causes when they crop up. These forums are about triathlons and all sorts of personal achievements. I try to take note of significant achievements from losing ten pounds to finishing an Ironman.

My posts have dropped off a great deal since I first joined the community in January 2004. I still read the forums daily but find very little that I can add. Yes kids, I do know I am boring, and yes maybe I have too many rules.

TW

Ok. And I do have a sense of humor. I just wanted to clarify. It seems that a lot of the culmination of issues are people speculating and not clarifying and maybe getting upset before doing so. 

I certainly don't think that the decline on BT is exclusively because of that either. That would be, impressive to say the least. But I do imagine anyone who is more on the sensitive side might see it that way, which is why I spoke up about it. 

I like this. It's a good reminder. Some of the things you mentioned aren't just rules of being a good human being, but thinking about how things translate into the digital world.

So, thanks for sharing. I don't think it sounds pompus. I guess other than sharing it here though, there's likely little that can be done with it. It's not like we can enforce your rules on others.