Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 94)

Karl, yup on what Jen said.  If a tri wetsuit is making your shoulders tired, more so than pool swimming anyway, I would say the fit is suspect.  It's also possible you're not putting it on correctly.  It should be pretty difficult to get into the wetsuit.  But there are also a few comments I would like to make.

First, it does feel very different swimming in a wetsuit and not in a wetsuit.  Have you been in one enough to just understand the difference and maybe what you're feeling is just the "normal" differences?

Second, everyone is tensed and somewhat uptight in the swim of a tri.  In fact, the first part of the swim start pretty much everyone swims WAAAY too hard.  Are you just burning out quicker because the start is so chaotic and at such an accelerated pace?

Third, I would highly recommend against using the wetsuit as a crutch during a race.  Keep improving your swim and be comfortable swimming the distance of the race without a wetsuit.  The wetsuit should be a bonus for some free speed.

Last, a sleeveless is absolutely more mobile.  However, almost everyone says if it's wetsuit legal, go with the full suit.  You will be faster.

Karl, first off what you noticed in the pool is the importance of a swim warmup.  Imagine you had gotten in to the pool and were suddenly racing a triathlon...You wouldn't have had that rest after 100.  Make sure to warm up BY SWIMMING before your next triathlon.  That's critical for you until you are what I will call a seasoned swimmer (then when you are seasoned you can warm up in other ways and just start the race if you want)

Now, about the wetsuit.  Tri wetsuits are designed different than surfing or diving wetsuits.  Which do you have?  The tri wetsuits are made with more flexible shoulders for just the reason we are discussing.

If yours is a triathlon wetsuit then it could be the wrong size, but not necessarily.  There should be classes available to triathletes new to swimming in a wetsuit!  First, there is a technique to putting the suit on.  You want to work the wetsuit up your body so that the crotch is pulled up as tight as it goes.  Then when you get the top over your shoulders any extra 'slack' will be at the top of the shoulders.  Then you want to work the sleeves up your arms until you've got some 'slack' at the top of the arm.  This way the shoulders get the maximum mobility.

Then, when swimming, your stroke might be altered somewhat from your pool technique.  I don't know what your arm recovery looks like when you swim in the pool but most of us strive to keep the elbow up and the hand down nearer our bodies.  In a wetsuit your arm won't bend at the elbow as much and that's OK. 

Now, for the final secret:  Once your suit is on and you get in the water for that warmup, sink down in the water up to your chin and pull open the neck of the suit and let it fill with water.  Then do the same thing at each sleeve, trying to work water down the arms of the wetsuit.

The neoprene then relaxes and feels great.  Your arms won't be compressed to the point of diminished circulation and the shoulders loosen up even more.  And last, but not least, the chest relaxes and doesn't compress your lungs while swimming which is another reason wetsuits can and sometimes do cause panic among triathletes.

Now you have had 'wetsuit 101' and you are ready for the next time!

I'm kinda dreading doing this... but here it is.. I set up my new bike on the trainer for demo purposes only. Here is a short YouTube clip as well: http://youtu.be/7_aauPrsER0

(bike2.JPG)

(bike3.JPG)

(bike1.JPG)

I've had some rough days, lately.

The munchkin has been.......challenging. 

My husband has big time seasonal allergies. 

I'm exhausted......ZZZZZZZZ.........

^^^This in spades!  I have used all of these things in my races for a couple of years and they have proven themselves each time I do them.

For a warm up if you cannot get a swimming warm up in, try doing push ups (not a lot) and arm circles to loosen the shoulders.  The idea with the push ups is to get your HR up a little bit more than actually using it for a shoulder WU.

Very quickly.  I agree with Tracy.  The seat appears to high and this is causing you to toe down a bit and rock your hips slightly.  Wait for Jeff to weigh in with other things before making adjustments.

I am off to work and in a hurry again.

Yea Jen the seat looks a bit high and your left leg, is it pointing a little out?  couldn;t tell by the camera angle.

Thanks everyone wetsuit tips and yes there should be a course on swimming in a wetsuit.  I've never put water in sleeves, I thought we we supposed to keep water out of there..will try it.  It is a tri-wetsuit too.  I'm going to make a hard copy of the rules of swimming in a wetsuit and memorize them....as of now i'm doing EVERYTHING wrong

Jen, you did good getting video and stills.

I also concur that your seat is a bit too high. 

Since video is a lot better than pictures, can you video again at your next opportunity and this time be on your elbow pads?  That's the position that we are primarily concerned with, right? 

And even though the right position is the right position...seeing your fit on your old bike would be good to see where you are coming from versus where you sit now.  Knowing how much different the fit is can help to answer some questions about what you are feeling on the new bike.  Do you still have the previous bike you mentioned?

When getting aero the biggest problem to be faced is the tight hip angle and how it pinches off the stomach and diaphragm and hinders breathing.  The solution for me has been shorter cranks.  I switched from 175mm to 165mm cranks and love it.

In your case, you should be using 165mm cranks right now because of your size, but I fear you have something longer because bikes just aren't sold with 165s on them.  And you might actually want 160mm cranks for a tri bike and they aren't widely available.  We can get to this question later if necessary but if you could look and tell us your crank length that would be good.  The number will be stamped on the inside of the crank arm right up near the pedal spindle.

Jen, your photo gives me a good opportunity to begin a discussion of pedaling technique that I have been unsure of how to begin.  I think I will try to cover the topic with small, specific tidbits in a series of posts.  They require diagrams to get the ideas across and your photo was a perfect seque in to one of these 'tidbits'.

In a 'cab forward' position (which is the aero position where your head and shoulders are low and your seat is shoved forward to compensate for that) the knee is well in front of the pedal when the pedal is at a horizontal position.  Look at your photo and notice that your left leg, which is obscured, is very much in front of your pedal.  The age old rule of thumb for ROAD biking is that when the pedal is horizontal, the knee is over the pedal.  But that was able to generally hold true because of the 72 degree seat angle and the fact that riders have their torsos higher on a road bike.

So, what's the pedaling technique tidbit here?  In the picture I show 2 lines.  The red line represents a typical erroneous pedal stroke.  I'm suggesting that most people will start to push when the pedal reaches the location of that red dot.  Then, they push DOWN because we are simply conditioned to push down in the vertical plane.  THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF PEDALING IN CIRCLES.  I'm just saying that the downstroke must be understood to be relative to your body mechanics and NOT GRAVITY.  If Jen were to pedal along the red line, because the knee is in front of the toes, she would need to do it using almost completely her Vastus Medialis and Vastus Lateralis muscles.   These are the relatively weaker muscles of the lower quads down by the knee.  There would be no glutes and not enough upper thighs involved and her power would suffer, he knees would begin to hurt, and her ability to run off the bike would disappear.

Instead, the 'downstroke' needs to be understood as pushing away from your shoulders.  So the pedal push will start at the YELLOW dot and proceed in the direction of the yellow line, pushing away from the shoulders towards the pedals.  This will use the GLUTES and upper thighs to power the pedals which is much more powerful and leaves the running muscles alone for later.

(JenBike.JPG)

I will definitely get some video of me on the old bike and the new bike on my elbows - in a few days. I have 170mm cranks on my new bike. I just so happened to bring my bike to work with me today in hopes of getting a short ride in this afternoon or just after work, if it doesn't rain. I have lowered my seat about 3/4 of inch. Being almost 5'1" on a tall day, do you think I need to go shorter than 160mm on the cranks. Googling lead me to read up on the fact that some manufacturers go down to 155mm and 150mm. If I go for a shorter crank arm, will I be compromising speed? You know this is very importtant as I enjoy last place finishes, LOL!

Shorter crank arms will definitely not affect your speed except that when they are right-sized they allow you even better performance.  There is an outside chance that after changing the crank lengths a lot that you might want to tweak the gearing on the bike but probably not.

I don't know of the major manufacturers making anything shorter than 165 yet...but perhaps SRAM has introduced 160?

The shorter ones are cranks designed for BMX and they can be used as long as your bottom bracket design allows for a square taper bottom bracket to be installed.  That technical detail can be saved for later if you end up wanting shorter cranks.

Jeff thanks for the post on the pedaling technique. I think the visual of Jen on the bike along with the red and yellow lines really help to get your point across. I do mess around alot on the trainer with pedaling technique to try and engage different muscles as you've discussed this in the past. I'm going to pay much closer attention to this tomorrow when I get my bike workout in.

On the training front my legs have been dead this week. I did an hour interval workout on the bike last night which wasn't that bad and followed it up with a hour and 6.1 miles on the treadmill. That run was agonizing I just didn't have anything but I forced myself to stay on the trainer and push through. I did part of the IMWI run course via iFit and the incline was brutal it went up to 11.5%. I had to walk that part.

Tonight I did an 1:25 and 8 miles on the treadmill and kept it at an easy pace with zero incline. It wasn't as bad as last night but my legs just don't have any spring in them this week. I wasn't dying or anything when I finished but you know the feeling you get when your legs just feel tired. That's how I feel. I am thinking of just pushing through it instead of just taking a day off. I took Saturday off and only swam on Monday so I am figuring this is just normal and it'll pass. I'll see how I feel tomorrow especially after the bike workout before I decide to ditch any workouts.

Just letting you all know I've been pretty infrequent again.  My brother was in over the Easter weekend but it was less a social visit and more of a packing visit.  He and his wife finally sold their house in town and came back to get everything packed and ready to move.  There wasn't much to move but it took some time because of all of the other people that came by for a visit.

The good news is that one of Josh's former coworkers came over with a 50 cal. rifle.  I was able to fire off a couple of rounds!  That was great fun!  This was the first time I have fired a large caliber rifle and it was quite the experience.  The weapon weighs about 45 pounds, so there is no shoulder firing happening.  It sit on a bi-pod and we fired from the prone position.  Because of the position and the weight there wasn't a ton of recoil but it was enough to know you shot something.  It was awesome!  If it weren't $6 per round I might have fired off a few more shots.  But I am not going to take advantage of someone in that way.

I have also been high ion the training for a number of weeks and time has not allowed me to get on and really do much in the area of posting.  I hit 53 miles running last week and tried to keep up with the bike but my brothers visit and some flooring shopping stalled the cycling on Saturday and Sunday.

Now my nephew is in town for his 2 week Guard drill and I am trying not to be antisocial with him by spending the evening on the computer.

Tony, great job working thru and getting the workout done.  Sometimes I think those tired w/o's train us the most.  Get use to being tired for IMWI and you will peform like a champ there.  One thing the massage person I go to said i should take, not every day but when i feel it is magnesium.  I usually take it a day or so before a race.

Dirk, firing the gun sounds like fun...makes my 30:06 sound like a pea shooter.  Are you ready for the Boston?  Is it the 15th???

Jeff, I agree w/ Tony, great post on pedaling...but do have a question.  When going up steep hills in the standing position, does that still apply?  I normally get out over the front tire and use all my weight to press the pedals down...I guess that is wrong like everything else I've done so far???  lol

Now for Dirk and Jeff, ya'll need to get together and publish a beginner's book...really I'm serious, It could be names, triathlon newbies, what they didn;t tell you....  Ya'll could get a lot of the info from this group, things like how to pedal, how to clip in, how to put on a wetsuit in the store vs a swim, how to change a tire, what kind of tire, air pressure of tires, there are a many things that people just do not know and not covered in 1 place.

Karl- Well said.. this three sport thing can get complicated fast. But, 3x the gear and 3x the fun! LOL!

Dirk- Definitely take some time with your nephew and thank him for his service from me (an Army vet).

Tony- Great job on pushing through... it seems like I hit a lull like that about every six weeks.

Jeff- Thanks for making an example out of me. LOL!

I always hesitate to encourage people to push through because of the risk of injury.  It's like telling a motorcycle racer to go faster!

But I can tell you that the fatigue you are feeling sounds like the fatigue I've experienced a number of times for one or more months on end as I'm increasing my VOLUME (not intensity) to push myself to the next level.  Eventually the body is forced to adapt precisely because I didn't give in to the fatigue and allow it to recover.

Make sure it's not nutritional though.  Eat some Breyers!  Magnesium and L-Lysine are 2 things I've been taking to help ensure optimal muscle recovery...and this time of year Vitamin-D supplementation is a good idea.

Tony, pedaling technique while out of the saddle is completely different.  Don't worry about how you're doing it.  And my little 'tidbit' and diagram over simplifies the issue even for the example I gave but I want to refine the ideas over time.  So be careful about taking it too much to heart or I will have done you a disservice.

The only take-home was to remember that you don't always just push vertically down on the pedals, it depends where you are in relation to the crank.  If you are on a recumbant bike you push horizontally, right!  That's the idea...it changes slightly around the clock-face as you move in relationship to the bottom bracket.

More details will follow...

And the book idea is actually a good one.  "Triathlon for Dummies".  I can see it now!  (not that 'dummy' here is derogatory, just that this is the line of books most recognizable as for beginners).  It would be cool to write it as a group too!

Jeff thanks and that was sort of what I was thinking as far as what I am feeling. It's not like I'm not able to complete the workouts or where I am feeling like I'm going to hurt myself but I am definitely feeling some of the fatigue from all the training. I also think my nutrition can be better as well. I already do the Vitamin D supplement and will try to make sure I am getting enough Magnesium and L-Lysine. Karl already suggested Magnesium and Protein, maybe I am not getting enough Protein in my diet. I need to do a better job with my diet.

A quick couple of pics before heading out for my run this morning............

This is the 50 cal I shot last weekend.  I wish I owned one similar myself but the cost is rather high and the ammunition is really, really salty, especially with the current political climate.

BTW Jen, The nephew that's at Guard drill for another week yet is a Marine.  He spent 1 year in Afghanistan as an Assaultman with his unit.  I'll let him know that you appreciate his service but he is pretty humble about his duty.  He is now in the Air Guard and looking for a full time position as a CFR (crash, fire, rescue) firefighter on base or a structural firefighter with a city department somewhere.

Jo63 - 2013-04-05 6:20 AM Thanks for posting the bike pics along with the info on pedaling! Tracy: I hope things are settling down at your house Tony: take a really hard look at your nutrition. I started eatting better a couple months ago but wasn't completely committed, a couple weeks ago when I had that workout meltdown it was my wake up call to commit, since then I have been really good about what I eat and the reward is I feel awesome, I get tired but not the exhausted fatigued feeling I had. No more missed workouts because I am just too tired Sam: what did you decide for your race? I wish it would warm up here I need to get out and test how my progress on the bike is coming and I hate the cold, I need it to be 70 before I will go outside and ride. Overall I feel like my training is the strongest it has ever been, although compared to the rest of you that's not a lot I am still really slow, my son was talking to some new people he works with and running came up and he told them I do triathalons and that I had attempted an Ironman....conversation continued and one of the guys stopped and said wait how old is your mom? When he told them I would be 50 this year he said wow that awesome at her age...lol at MY AGE hahaha what is that supposed to mean? On a side note I have to tell you the new energy at the salon is awesome, like I said it is unbelievable what one persons attitude can do for a whole group.

JoAnne I had to laugh when I read that qoute about your age and IM. It's awesome for anybody at any age to attempt an IM. Glad to hear things are going great the salon as well. I agree with you on the nutrition. I have not been eating as well as I should be and it probably is contributing in a negative way to my training. I really need to get back to being more disciplined with my diet and eating better along with making sure I get adequate rest. It is not going to get any easier for me and I have 5 more months of training to prepare. I'm glad to hear that you are seeing and feeling a noticeable difference with better nutrition. I will be trying to do the same.

Dirk you don't mess around when it comes to guns. That is a serious weapon for sure.

Dave welcome back and good to see you checking in. Hopefully you are over the winter blues and ready to get back to some training as it's about time the weather starts getting a little warmer so we all can conduct our training outdoors.

Jo, congrats on all accounts.

Tony, we can start harassing you about your diet...lol  Just kidding