Total Immersion? (Page 3)

JoshR - 2010-04-29 6:45 PM

All I know is when I swim with nice long smooth efficient strokes, I'm able to swim at a faster pace for longer with less effort. But when I start to really increase my turnover, my speed picks up a lot. For me the difference is quite large. For me, losing some of my form is absolutely worth it. Every time I have set a pr at any length, I always lose some form at the end of my race, but I end up going faster than I have before. For instance I had a 750 yd TT at my last sprint tri, I dropped a lot fo time from last years race even though my last 250 was awful form. My pace went from 1:07 on the first 500 to 1:13 for the last 250, mostly because my form started to fail. Maybe this is bad, but that is my best 750 yd swim by a long shot. None of my strong smooth form attempts have even come close.

AdventureBear - 2010-04-29 2:34 PM TI isn't one style fits all...there are principals and each individual is going to be able to apply them differently based on their body type, flexibility, previous injuries. A flatter roll, a shallower reach and wider arm swing are all within the applications of TI and are frequently the types of changes I'm making to someone's stroke who has learned from the video. Why stop swimming when your form breaks down during a hard interval? Because you've found your breaking point where the sacrifice of stroke length may outweigh the increased turnover. This is really really really easy to measure. Count your strokes, multiply by your stroke rate, add however many seconds for your pushoff = speed. Are your harder intervals really faster or just harder? And can you swim the same speed at a lower stroke rate with a more liesurely stroke? You'd be shocked to see what pearls you can uncover if you deconstruct speed just a little bit more than just intervals and rest periods. yes, as you swim faster, your stroke count will go up, but then why not work on optimizing your stroke count for that speed by examing your technique instead of just throwing up your arms and saying, "Oh well, I'm swimming faster and my form is supposed to break down..." As I said on a previous thread regarding stroke counts and stroke rate...you can ignore the empirical values if you like, but it's a bit like owning a power meter for your bike and only looking at your average speed. There's a whole lot more you can in the pool than just swim hard. I am currently swimming faster in my 25s, 50s, 100s, 250s and IMs then I've ever swum in my adult life and it's a result of my TI studies and application of smart training principals when trying to improve speed. In January prior to my TI weekend clinic, my fastest 100 all out was a 1:43. Since then, with patient practice of holding my form over both easy yards, as well as training with a tempo trainer to increase my stroke rate, my fastest 100 is now a 1:30. I'd been stuck in the 1:40s for over 5 years prior to that. Today, I swam my fastest IM ever in my adult life at 1:40. So it may not be teh 3:00/100 to 1:20/100 that a previous poster was hoping for, but it's a significant improvement and I anticipate additional increases in speed with time.

tjfry - 2010-04-29 11:25 PM
As to not stopping swimming a hard set once your stroke breaks down, I can think of a few key reasons right off the top of my head to keep going. The fact that it actually improves your technique lands somewhere in the top 3 on that list, but that's a completely different thread.

Oldteen - 2010-04-30 8:16 AM



^^^^^ 

As a poor swimmer-when I'm tired I can better feel my faults coming out as my concentration breaks down (lifting head to breathe, poor rotation, crossing over, etc.).  Seems to me it's important to know HOW your stroke tends to break down as you tire.

garyhallsr - 2010-05-01 2:51 PM This is not meant to be disrespectful to Terry, as I have not been to his TI camp. I have seen his video. If you are looking at another camp option, come to The Race Club in Islamorada, FL Keys. I have helped many triathletes improve their swimming techniques.
Problem with swimming, there is not one technique that is ideal for all distance swimmers. We need to evaluate what strengths you may have in the water and based on that, teach a technique that works better for you. For example, in the men's 1500 meter swim final in Beijing, the first two places, Mellouli and Hackett, used a classic hip-driven, hold-in-front technique, while Ryan Cochrane and the Russian guy used a fast-turnover, shoulder-driven technique. They were about 4 seconds apart, first to 4th place. Very different techniques. But if you don't have the legs to drive you, don't hold in front.
Breathing is another problem. Most freestylers don't breathe often enough. Yes, every cycle is not enough. Anyway, I often teach triathletes a  bit unorthodox breathing pattern and a higher turnover freestyle that preserves the legs and gets as much 02 into your body as possible. Come check us out at www.theraceclub.com.

Gary Sr. 

garyhallsr - 2010-05-01 12:51 PM
Problem with swimming, there is not one technique that is ideal for all distance swimmers. We need to evaluate what strengths you may have in the water and based on that, teach a technique that works better for you. For example, in the men's 1500 meter swim final in Beijing, the first two places, Mellouli and Hackett, used a classic hip-driven, hold-in-front technique, while Ryan Cochrane and the Russian guy used a fast-turnover, shoulder-driven technique. They were about 4 seconds apart, first to 4th place. Very different techniques. But if you don't have the legs to drive you, don't hold in front.
Breathing is another problem. Most freestylers don't breathe often enough. Yes, every cycle is not enough. Anyway, I often teach triathletes a  bit unorthodox breathing pattern and a higher turnover freestyle that preserves the legs and gets as much 02 into your body as possible. Come check us out at www.theraceclub.com.

Gary Sr.