Flip turn help please
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() OK I'm trying to learn to flip-turn, and I have so far managed to get past the first obstacle.....the distance from the wall at which to start flippiing, I am at last making foot-to-wall contact. But all is not well... I am going too deep. my feet hit the wall too deep, and I end up having to struggle to get to the surface to actually swim. I think my pronblem may be that I am not tucking tight enough, but I don't know for sure. I am only a week into the learnung process. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Great swimming site great vids: http://www.goswim.tv/drilloftheweek_comments.php?id=979_0_20_0_C One of the things I found really helped with my flip turns was not to overexaggerate the actual flip but keep it really tight and be almost explosive about getting your feet back into the water. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() After several years of racing I too finally gave into peer pressure and began to do flip turns. I've been doing them for about a month or two (can't remember how long actually). I had the same exact problem you were having. What I did to fix it was to flip "quicker." What I mean by than is to really bring your head/body around quickly (summersalt quicly) kinda like you're trying to crack a whip and the end that would crack (if you were a whip) would be your toes....sorta bad analogy I guess. Anyway, what i found is the quicker I turned upside down in the water the less I would sink. Good luck and keep on it and you should be doing turns in no time. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I find that the closer I am to the wall the deeper my push off is. This is because I do not get fully turned around before my feet touch. The higher your feet are pushing of the wall, (if you are not fully streamlined) the deeper you will go. I think a good way to practice turns is to first turn way to far away from the wall and slowly bit by bit get closer until you feel comfortable pushing off. Also glide into your turns. Breathing right before you turn will make it harder and longer to get your body in the proper position. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sounds like you are diving down a bit before you even flip. Think about keeping your legs on the surface as you approach the wall then try to conciously stick your butt out of the water while you are upside down. Tucking tight and flipping quick will help your turn be faster, but if you're just swimming laps you don't need to go all Jackie Chan on it. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() never done 'em, never will Since most if not all of my races are in open water, I'd rather spend my "swimming" time swimming and not trying to learn flip turns -- I need all the swimming training I can get |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() One more tip for avoiding diving down before you flip: Right before the turn, I like to think of my body like an L, with my legs along the surface of the water, and my torso pointed down (parallel to the wall). So heading into the turn isn't about getting deeper in the water--its just bending at the waist. Then you whip your legs around quickly (like someone else mentioned), and you should only be a foot or two below the surface when you push off. I never tuck my legs at all until I have already flipped and am getting ready to push off the wall with my legs. --Jennifer |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri_again - 2005-01-04 11:10 AM never done 'em, never will Since most if not all of my races are in open water, I'd rather spend my "swimming" time swimming and not trying to learn flip turns -- I need all the swimming training I can get LOL That's what I said for 6 years....then finally gave into peer pressure. I used to be the only guy doing 1:35min/100 meter intervals not doing flip turns....and DAMN proud of it... ![]() |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kimj81 - 2005-01-04 10:50 AM Hie YA! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I still haven't gotten passed not either smacking my head into the wall or looking like a complete moron trying no to drown. Oh well, so much for my military combat swimming skills. They're not helping here too much. Oh well. Perfect practice makes perfect so I definately have some practicing to do ![]() Shauna |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tri_again - 2005-01-04 11:10 AM never done 'em, never will Since most if not all of my races are in open water, I'd rather spend my "swimming" time swimming and not trying to learn flip turns -- I need all the swimming training I can get I agree. All of my time is spent working on form, and I won't be racing in a pool. I have very limited time to train, so I can't allocate any of it to a skill that I won't use. But they do look cool though. :-) |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks for the advice guys. I'll be getting busy with it. As for the "never used them, never will" crowd.......first of all, I do have races with pool swims, and in such short races, (the swims are usually 300-500 yards/meters) ANY time I save is greatly appreciated, secondly, I know that being more able to "swim like a swimmer" will greatly aid me in understanding the nuances of swimming, and swimming is a very nuanced sport. I'll probably never be a front-of-the-pack swimmer, but I can train like they do. Additionally, the ability to keep going without that extra breath/rest at the end of each lap that open turns allow will serve me in open water, and help me to not panic when I get dunked swimming in a crowd, or by a wave. Also, the ability to keep proper body position, and to get back into proper alignment quickly after a turn. Lastly, if I can actually get faster and save a few seconds on each 100, then I have more time to train. The faster I a can get, the more volume I can cram into the limited pool time I do have.;-p I liken it to having good pack-riding skills on the bike. I won't directly use the skill in a triathlon, but having the skill makes me a better all-around cyclist. I will be riding on a course with others, and knowing how other cyclists handle (on mishandle) their bikes can keep me out of trouble. |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() OK everybody, let's just calm down here. We're not on Slowtwitch. Sure there are very valid reasons for learning flip turns, I just started doing them myself so I'm hardly in any position to give advice, but let's be honest. Sometimes we just want to blend with the "swimmers" and not be that tri geek down there with the seal mask doing open turns. Granted, as the open water season approaches and I start doing just meter after meter of long swim sessions I'll probably go back to open turns, or at least make the push off almost non existant, just to avoid the advantage that a strong push off gives you. But for now, working on the flip turn kind of takes the boredom out of winter training and that little bit of oxygen starvation probably doesn't hurt me. Plus, there are some pool meets that I might sign up for before the season starts. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() aaaaahhhhhh reason |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I was never a member of a swim team or club when I started swimming laps so years ago I taught myself how to do a flip turn by observing the other swimmers. Basically find a pool where you can stand in waist deep water about 10 feet or more from the wall. Push off with your legs toward the wall with your arms in front of you. Sweep your arms back to your side. This will give you some added momentum. Once you are about 2 to 3 feet from the wall turn your palms down and sweep them forward under you, while at the same time bending at the waist and pulling your legs into a tuck. Let your legs rotate over your head and plant your feet on the wall. As you do the plant you'll notice that you tended to fall to one side. This is good because you are already partially rotated back to the proper face down position. Push off the wall with your arms outstretched and streamlined in front of you and finish the rotation to the face down position. Do this over and over and you will get comfortable with the motion. The great thing about this simple flip turn drill is that it allows you to concentrate on just the flip turn and not worry about your stroke or breathing and you can do it while staying rested. To use it while swimming I start looking at my stroke and the distance to the wall about 2 to 3 full strokes out. This allows me to time the turn correctly. I like to finish a pool length with a full left arm pull just before the wall at the turning line T marker, I then bring my right arm forward and just pull it back easily to keep my momentum and when both arms are fully back I’m ready for the under sweep to start the turn. Sometimes I have to shorten the last full right arm stroke I do, so that the timing for the last full left arm stroke is maintained at the right position on the pool T marker. |
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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() You'd think with all that focusing going on, JTee would have noticed the life guard sticking the orange float in front of him yesterday telling him to stop, instead of me having to chase him down. ![]() |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tbilll - 2005-01-05 9:58 AM Sometimes we just want to blend with the "swimmers" and not be that tri geek down there with the seal mask doing open turns. Like tbill said we (triathletes and beginners) tend to train and blend with non-triathletes, swimmers, cyclist and runners. I compare the flips with drafting, is not necessary, and for me is like cheating, but if we don't want to be or feel left out of a pack/group sometime you gotta do it... My .02 cents. |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tbilll - 2005-01-05 10:47 AM You'd think with all that focusing going on, JTee would have noticed the life guard sticking the orange float in front of him yesterday telling him to stop, instead of me having to chase him down. ![]() I was busy timing my flip turning and staring at the pool bottom to stay streamlined. AND! the divers didn't start using the pool until about 25 minutes later |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() charlie - 2005-01-05 9:49 AM because the main purpose of it, for me, is to control my breath not gain time. My .02 cents. Yeah, I was told to think of flip turns as a "free anaerobic" workout. And boy, that's what it is quite often... |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() If you really want to flip turn without the "cheating" factor just flip turn before the wall,without getting a pushoff. That way you don't get the glide. You will then have to start stroking right away to keep moving. It's kinda weird in the beginning, but then it's fun. There are no flip turns in open water, so this technique kinda feels like your are not stopping to turn. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Dave -- you might actually have the opposite problem to the one you mentioned (planting your feet too low on the wall). I used to have the same problem, that I would push off too deep and end up struggling back to the surface, and it turned out I was planting too HIGH on the wall -- I wasn't rotating enough before I pushed off, and with my feet high, I was angled downward as I pushed off. If you wait another second before you push off, and try to get your feet farther down, you'll be pushing yourself upward instead of down. |
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