Yet another BO promise broken (Page 5)

this is the problem....with everyone looking for a Quick fix.  The current path we're on is only going to continue to cannibalize itself.  It won't happen in one year...and it one happen in one presidential term. We won't get the market back to 1300 overnight...but you start. 

That viscious cycle....HAS got to be reversed...

So your solution to the crash caused by rampant consumerism based on credit is to let the Federal government join in on the fun?

That sounds like trying to dig yourself out of a hole by using a steam shovel

I am not advocating that we give companies money.  I am suggesting that we make the climate more attractive to KEEP manufacturing jobs here.  By giving companies tax breaks on new machinery the government might be loosing a bit of tax income but it's far less than the money they need to spend to "support" those who have lost their jobs.

So you say deficit spend.  We've been doing that for decades.  When do you get the money back?  You eventually have to raise taxes.

Which brings us back to the original point... why not get rid of the wasteful spending the the first place? 

There is an earmark for $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.  How in the bloody hell is that stimulating the economy?

This bill is FULL of wasteful spending plain and simple.

Aw dude Artists gotta eat too you know

BUT again your instant grattifying the whole thing.  So you're delaying the inevitable and continuing the (my) viscious cycle.....

Basic accounting will show you that deficit spending is debt.  You have lost that money.  You are now in debt.  If ANY business in the world tried to run itself this way it would not be long for the world.  But becuase the government can print more money then they can.... at least until that money is worthless.

This is also the attitude that (partially) got us into this mess... 

"I want my $400k house now.  I know I can't afford it but the market will go up and I'll be OK".

Agreed....WHY is this so hard to digest?!?!?

Your feeling of a laissez-faire attitude right now leading to deepen the crisis - what is that based on?  I think that the more the governement gets involved the deeper the recession happens to get.  It's like a car that gets stuck in the mud.  The more you gun the engine, the deeper the car is going to get.  The more the gov't tries to do the more nervous I get.

Yes, people are losing and will continue to lose jobs.  Bonuses might be withheld but this is the medicine we have to take in order to get better.  Creating rediculously false jobs and paying artists whose paintings nobody wants to buy or pay to see doesn't create wealth.  Markets are incredibly good at figuring things out.  My fear is that the Dems realish this opportunity to create all this crap all under the title of financial crisis.  Listen to BO earlier today.  He really seems to relish focussing on how bad things are.  Partly it's to focus on that so if things improve he can wear it as a badge of honor whether he deserves the credit or not.  I believe he also does this to justify all this excessive spending under the umbrella of crisis.

I hope we get through this because the ramifications could be felt for generations.

I don't understand...you don't understand enough about deficit spending to make an argument...but you understand enough to know that is what we need to do?!?!

Ok.....You personally go about living your financial life with the same principals as what you're advocating. Hell...start a company and do the same thing.  Get back to us with the results.....Government is not immune to basic financial principles. 

AND....debt IS bad...you've also been sold a bill of goods by the same people that want you to borrow their money.  Using debt in an intelligent manner can benefit and get SMART people ahead. But debt in and of itself is bad.  It's like fouling at the end of a basketball game....you use it...but it in and of itself isn't good.

Then you wait.  That's the mentality that gets people into trouble.  "I'll just charge it." 

I saved and saved and paid cash for my wife's ring (and I was a broke college student too).

I started my company with the cash I had in the bank.  We were profitable from day one and have never had any debt.  Last year's sales were close to $2 million.  I know of plenty of others with the same story.

Going into debt for an asset that will appreciate is not bad.  Examples include homes and education.  

Buying things like TVs, DVDs and rings on credit cards IS bad debt.  These items do not appreciate.

So the same anlogy applies to government spending.  Spending money on things that bring back benifits is a good thing (tax break to create jobs etc..).  However this spending bills has an awful lots of Tvs and DVDs on the credit card.

*I* would appreciate it if you would buy me things like TVs and DVDs.  Thanks, I appreciate it!

Please read again what I wrote...I think you missed this.... 

"Using debt in an intelligent manner can benefit and get SMART people ahead." I.E. buying a house you can afford and not leveraging it on an interest only or an adjustable rate so you can buy more house than you can afford...etc.   

... this is the exact attitude that keeps people from becoming entreprenuerial. My father did the same thing...started a business that is now 20 years going and he started it with nothing while we were living with my grandparents.  No loan....just living on rice and beans and building. Those that keep thinking it CAN'T be done are only passed by those (like my father and TriRSquared) that do the "impossible". 

 Wrong...the housing bubble/credit crisis occurred due to (yes) those poor lending standards but those standards were imposed by the government.  Check out the evolution of the Community Reinvestment Act starting back in the 70's and the changes made to it in 95 creating the "subprime" market.  So the problem didn't start with the banks it started with our government imposing on the banks.

job creation and projects which should be created due to tax breaks on companies and individuals, NOT deficit spending by the government.

Write a check to me for $250,000,000.00 and I will stimulate the economy beyond most peoples wildest dreams.

Not sure how a tax credit wouldn't help these people?  One, they would get money back even if they did not work enough to owe federal income tax, and two with more disposable income, hopefully the other people that also received either cuts or credits would spend more thus driving demand for products and services. 

Instead we should just fund ACORN, talk about pay to play politics, every pet project known to a politician was in this bill, tell me how the elected dumocrats expect that to stimulate the economy and help the average joe.