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2010-03-05 1:50 PM
in reply to: #2710381

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Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?
AndrewMT - 2010-03-05 1:38 PM

DerekL - 2010-03-05 10:10 AM
jmk-brooklyn - 2010-03-05 10:01 AM  I don’t see how saying, “If you don’t like COJ don’t go there” is constructive. It’s the same as saying “America, Love it or Leave it.” It may be true that the majority thinks that COJ is fine, but there are those that do not and think that it could be better.


Complaining about a completely OPTIONAL  place to visit vs. a country you live in isn't remotely the same thing.

The comments that mine were directed at are those who are sweeping COJ under some giant rug of "profanity" and "worthlessness".  I have no problems with suggestions to make things better, but I find those sorts of statements less than constructive.

I know I'm not generalizing saying that all of COJ is profane.  I love some of the discussions there and having a forum like that is an absolute necessity.  I don't even mind your suggestion that people should stay out of the threads they don't like.  Too easy.  But I've seen some of it slip out into other forums and threads where it absolutely doesn't belong.

As far as a the beginner chat goes, it's there for everybody and needs to be kept appropriate for everybody.  What little I've seen of it, the conversation was not appropriate for kids or for this site.  I'm extremely open minded and as far from a prude as they come, but come on!  This is a triathlon site and that chat room is for all members.

So in my attempt to be constructive and make things better, I think we need to limit the crude adolescent comments.  The mods need to make clear that it doesn't belong in the BeginnerChat area or outside of COJ.  Inside of COJ...eh, people can deal with it.  They venture in on their own volition. 



Chat is for performance members and not everybody on BT.  The same 15-20 of us are in there quite a bit tend to know each other quite well.  Triathlon is rarely the topic unless some official chat is going on which most of us stay out of.  People are free to chat about whatever they choose.

"The mods" includes me BTW.


2010-03-05 2:17 PM
in reply to: #2710414

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Elite
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Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?

DerekL - 2010-03-05 1:50 PM

Chat is for performance members and not everybody on BT.  The same 15-20 of us are in there quite a bit tend to know each other quite well.  Triathlon is rarely the topic unless some official chat is going on which most of us stay out of.  People are free to chat about whatever they choose.

"The mods" includes me BTW.

I'm fine with all that (although I didn't realize it was performance members only).  I wouldn't expect it to be all (or even mostly) triathlon talk.

I guess what I saw the other night just rubbed me the wrong way.  It was a quick 5 minute foray into the chat.  I was bored and thought I'd chat with some other BT members.  What I saw was crude and immature.  I'm sure it's not always like that but I'll stick to my point that the conversations should be kept fairly PG-13ish. 

2010-03-05 8:40 PM
in reply to: #2697049

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Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?

Tech_Geezer’s Rules for Posting.

 

I am a long time member of this group and these are my rules for me.  I really don’t expect others to share my views on use of the forums, but I do mean for my conduct to honor the ideals of Ron’s community that he described in the Guidelines for Healthy Discussion.

My goal in posting is to be informative or entertaining or, if possible, both.  I only post if I have something unique, relevant, and personal to add.  I do not repeat the conventional training wisdom; I give my own experience and ideas.  If someone asks how to fix something and I’ve done it and know how, I tell them.  If not, I let other people answer.  I rarely pass on second hand information.  When I do, I post the link rather than explain it myself.  I generally try not to be the first responder to a question. I do not think I am likely to have the best information or most pertinent experience.  Very often if I wait, my response is not needed at all.  I do think every genuine question deserves an answer; so if a thread languishes for a while without a response, I will take a stab at it. 

Humor is tricky.  It makes the forums entertaining, but for me, it has to be good clean fun.  I can make a joke about myself but I never make a joke at the expense of another person whether he or she is on this forum or not.  This includes public figures.  If I give offense, I apologize quickly and privately.  Sarcasm is especially problematic.  It can easily be misunderstood.  Frequently, it has an element of criticism or making fun of someone.  I just avoid it.  

I mean to be the same person online as I am in real life or as closely as I can within the limitations of the medium.  Of course this means to be absolutely truthful and precise about myself and my experience as I can be.  If I ran 34:20, I say 34:20 not 34.  I try to act my age and my marital status.  I am 57 years old and married for 35 years to my high school sweetheart.  I have little to add to a discussion among younger, single people about relationships so I stay out of these topics.  That does not mean I don’t read them.  I do find these discussions entertaining.  Some of you are funny at a professional level.  I just don’t post.

I try to use correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation.  Most of my professional work involves technical writing.  I keep my Gregg Reference Manual and Merriam-Webster dictionary handy and use them when I need them.  Because I need to be careful all the time, I do not change my writing style online.  I do not mean to be a grammar snob.  I never correct anyone else’s writing.  Other people may not place the same importance on careful writing as I; yet I can almost always understand what they mean.  That is all I need.

When I post something, I want to be understood by everyone.  Most here do not know me personally; so I try to give any information they might need to know to understand the context.  I do not use inside jokes or obliquely refer to things not known to the entire community.

I do not enter into debate.  I rarely post more than once on a thread.  If someone takes issue with what I said, I check my post.  If it is clear and I have not been misunderstood, then I let both opinions stand on their merit and say nothing further.  I find little satisfaction in political debate and avoid these topics.  I ignore any negative, argumentative, or insulting comments made in the forums.  I am not the moderator and do not want to be.

I mean to be a generous, helpful, and positive member of the community.  I used to give to every worthy cause mentioned on the site.  The solicitations have dropped off but I still give to people and causes when they crop up.  These forums are about triathlons and all sorts of personal achievements.  I try to take note of significant achievements from losing ten pounds to finishing an Ironman. 

My posts have dropped off a great deal since I first joined the community in January 2004.  I still read the forums daily but find very little that I can add.  Yes kids, I do know I am boring, and yes maybe I have too many rules.

 

TW

2010-03-05 9:07 PM
in reply to: #2697049

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Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?
Since someone I don't know took the time to PM me to "X2" my comment earlier in this thread about having previously decided to stay out of COJ in order to not get turned off to BT completely, I have to suspect there's probably quite a bit of that sentiment around...certainly it's making itself heard a bit here in this thread.

I'm a grownup (sometimes, anyhow) and if I don't want to pick my way through a lot of a fairly high content of what strikes me as adolescent commentary in COJ (no other word I can think of to describe how it strikes me), I can--and do--choose not to click on the link to that board anymore.  And in general, it seems to me that everyone can follow the "then don't go there" advice.

But the comments in this thread about a posting climate in COJ perhaps leaking out into the other BT boards--if really true--probably are worth the mod's consideration.
2010-03-05 9:18 PM
in reply to: #2711179

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Subject: RE: The BT Forum Culture - a case for a higher standard?
We are going to end on this most excellent post by tech geezer that, along with the general posting guidelines, we can hopefully all take to heart and use.  I thank you ALL very much for taking the time to give me your thoughts and to those that have pm'd me with thoughts.  It's not about what 'side' your are on, but recognizing that there will always be a 'side' and how all of the 'sides' can coexist peacefully.

It's not and shouldn't ever be about COJ and Triathlon Talk - or any other forums, both are important and have users that use those forum more over the others for whatever reasons that we should not judge as we all have 'needs' that need to be fulfilled and our lives as triathletes evolve.  Everyone is equal.  BUT whatever forum we choose to post in, help make that forum as best as it can be as that will ultimately determine the success, tone and tenor of that forum and how it is perceived to others and the site overall.  Thinking of it another way, the way we post in our forum of choice has an effect on the outcome of that forum - if it brings in new users to debate and get engaged in the conversation by offering up new, unique and interesting viewpoints and so on.  Nobody wants their forum of choice to devolve and die - who would we then talk to? Maintaining an active forum depends on replacing 'retired' users of that forum with 'new' users...and ideally the rate of new users will exceed the rate of retiring users so our forum of choice can grow with new ideas and people and not stagnate.  Everyone that posts is part of that equation.

Keeping the forums most welcoming and civil are very important to the survival of the site.  If one uses the site in ANY way and posts on the forum, the way we conduct ourselves in EVERY post has an effect, as small as it may be, on the longevity of the site. Quite simply it is 'part of the whole'.  Each post is just as important as any other no matter what forum and some thought and consideration must go into every one of them before we 'submit' - is our post being constructive?  If so then that is helping the longevity of the site.  Is it neutral or destructive?  Then it is doing it's part to shorten the lifespan of the site that we use.  I'm not trying to be arrogant as you all have dictated the features of the site, but you come here for a reason...what would happen if BT ceased to exist?  I don't see any alternatives...sure pieces and parts of other sites, but not the whole thing WITH a good dose of civility that you get here most of the time.  Every post counts and either helps or hinders the site.

Anyone can send me any additional thoughts on the matter of the forums - or anything else. I don't pick sides.  I have no affiliations to any user.  Our moderators are here to serve you and we are not against changing or modifying our policies to better serve you.   I'm not content in fully believing that 'the way it is' on the BT forums now should be 'the status quo' even though many say that we are still far better than most internet forums...I strive for the forums to be better than that and will try my hardest, along with the mods, to ensure that we are as close as we can to the ideals and the 'vibe' that we had in our younger days.  Sure, as one ages one changes...we want to make sure that we are always doing our best to change for the better.
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