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2010-06-30 9:36 PM

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Subject: Looking for input on a new bike
I've been looking online at bikes and I am seeking input about one I am considering.  A Vilano 2010 TUONO Aluminum Road Bike.  They compare it to the Dawes Lighting 1000 and another site compares the Dawes to the Trek 1.2  The price with shipping is under $275 (save $500, who could pass that up!).  Since I'm still a newbie, I'm looking for some input from others about this.

I'm currently riding a 20+ year old Giant Quasar 12 speed with a steel frame.

Here are the specs:

54cm Medium WHITE - FULL WARRANTY - SAVE $500

54cm Medium WHITE - FULL WARRANTY -  SAVE $500

Vilano TUONO 2010 Specs

  • Model: TUONO 2010
  • Weight: 24lbs.
  • Speeds: 21
  • Frame: 6061 Double Butted Aluminum
  • Fork: Chromoly Steel 700c
  • Shifters: Shimano A050
  • Front Derailleur: Shimano
  • Rear Derailleur: Shimano A050
  • Crankset: Tec9 170mm Forged Alloy 50/40/30
  • Bottom Bracket: Shimano
  • Freewheel: Shimano MF-TZ07 7 speed
  • Chain: KMC Z
  • Hubs: Assess
  • Rims: 700c Doubled Walled CNC Machined Sides
  • Tires:700c x 25c
  • Brakes: Promax
  • Headset: Neco
  • Handlebar: Promax
  • Saddle: Vader
  • Seatpost: JBD

The TUONO Features:

  • A Strong Lightweight 6061 Aluminum Frame

  • Shimano A050 Shifters on the Handlebar

  • 21 Speeds to Handle any Situation

  • Mount point for fenders and accessories


    They have other sizes and I'm getting a fitting later this week.

    Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.



2010-07-01 7:09 AM
in reply to: #2954800

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Personally I don't like the details... and the devil is in the detail.

1. No specific brand detail on the front and rear derailleur. Shimano makes a lot of different derailleurs and this is open enough that they will put on anything they have.

2. The Shimano A050 shifters are built for flat handlebars. A quick search around google and some online bike shops will get you some pics. So this means the shifters are going to be on top of the handle bars (ie flight deck) where if you have Sora or Tiagra componets they will be paddle shifters that will be placed on the drops. This is not what they are showing on the picture.

3. Shimano Tourney freewheel??? I had to look it up. I would bet the rest of the componets that are just listed as Shimano will be Tourney. The brand is what they will put on a commuters and other bikes that you would buy at Walmart, Sears, etc. Will they get the job done??? Yes. Will they be as durable as Sora or Tiagra??? No.

4. Steel fork. The Trek 1.1 gives you aluminum... the 1.2 gives you carbon. Dawes is also aluminum. It is where they are saving cost...

Here is what you should do this weekend. Go to Trek and look around. They should be starting their summer sale as the Tour de France is starting. Look at what deals they have on the 1.1 or 1.2. Yes it will cost a little more... but you will be buying something that will last a little longer.


Just my .02

Edited by JChristoff 2010-07-01 7:11 AM
2010-07-01 7:47 AM
in reply to: #2954800

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Master
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
x2 on what Justin said. You can always add accessories later, but with the frame and components, you should go as high as you can afford. Make sure the components are something you have heard of.

Also, with an aluminum frame, it will rattle you around a bit (probably) compared to your steel bike. You may want to spend the money for a carbon fork or carbon seatpost or both. It really makes a HUGE difference in how smooth your ride feels, especially if you are not riding on perfect, freshly paved roads all the time.
2010-07-01 7:53 AM
in reply to: #2954800

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Master
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Here is something I wrote up for my BT mentor group a few months back:

(Not sure if all the photos will show up correctly...)

Tip of the day: Jan. 26, 2010

CHOOSING A BIKE

The best way is to pay money for a professional bike fit on a Size Cycle BEFORE you go shopping, even for a used bike, so that you know what you need. However, this is more than $100, and I know that realistically someone looking to get started is just not going to do this step first probably.  If you are investing in an expensive bike, you MUST do this step first. If you are looking for something used, keep reading.


Repeat after me: The frame is the most important item.
("The frame is the most important item.")


If your frame size is right, you can change the gearing, change the pedals, change the seat, change the stem, change the handlebars. If your frame size is wrong, as soon as you start buying new things for your bike, you are going to realize that you need to start over with the correct frame.

You can always replace components on a frame. If you replace the frame, you can't always take all your components with you, if they don't fit the new bike, so if you are on a limited budget, get the right frame first. Then you can add items bit by bit with your birthday money, tax refund, etc.

If you can afford carbon instead of metal, you won't regret it. If you can't, don't worry about it. Just don't ever test-ride a carbon bike until you think you can afford it, or you will hate yourself until you get one.

OK, let's start with the assumption that you don't have the money for a professional fit, and you are looking for a used bike and just want to make sure you get something that fits.

Step 1: Frame size.

Step 1a: Frame height
Ideally, you would go on YouTube and search for a video about how to measure your inseam for a bike frame. If you don't do that because it's a hassle, you can use something called "Stand-over height." Swing your leg over the bike you are looking at. Put your feet flat on the ground. There should be a couple inches between your crotch and the bike frame. (This part of the bike frame between your legs is called the Top Tube. Because it's on top.)
Now obviously you can only test the standover height in person. That's why it's better to get a measurement, so you can shop on Craigslist and ebay and know what size frame you need. Most frames are measured in centimeters. 60cm is for a very tall person. 50cm is pretty small. Mine is 48 cm. 46 cm is possible, but VERY hard to find.

Step 1b: Top Tube length, or "reach"
It's great that you found a bike that is the right height, but it still may never fit right if you are reaching too far in front of you.
When in aero bars, your arms should form an "L" at the elbow, like this:


If your top tube is too long, you end up having problems.
You don't want to look like this (or anything close to it):



Obviously that guy is a pro, experimenting with different positions, but if you are starting out and your bike is set up like that, you will find that you get tired faster, can't breathe correctly, and end up sitting up a lot and getting out of the aero position because it's too uncomfortable.

If you are a small person, especially if you are female, you want to be careful about top tube length. Many standard brand bikes have too long of a reach. This is not universal, but most women, compared to men, have shorter torsos and longer legs. Most women can stand next to a man of the same height and will find that their legs are longer and torsos shorter.

So this becomes a big problem when trying to find a bike that won't make you too stretched out.  Look for a bike with TWO SEAT POSITIONS on the seat post. The two on the left (Cervelo and Felt) have two spots where you can put the seat - forward or back. See? It's easiest to see on the Cervelo, because it has two big holes. You put the seat in either one.


Being able to put the seat forward allows you to get closer to the handlebars.
Also when you are looking at brands, look at Top Tube lengths. Cervelo and Felt have the shortest Top Tube lengths, because of the movable seat position. That's why I have a Felt!

Of course the seats are adjustable a little bit. You can slide them forward by loosening a bolt, sliding the seat on its rails, and tightening it again. But you want to be able to adjust your seat as your abilities change. You don't want to be stuck in the all-the-way-forward position if you don't have to be.

Step 2: Everything else. Everything else is adjustable and replaceable. So just worry about the frame. Well, everything except the gears and brakes, commonly called "Components." If you are shopping, you can ask what the Components are.
Here are the names, so you can see:

Brand name: Shimano (Japanese. This is the most common set you will see on bikes for sale)
Shimano Dura-Ace = top-of-the-line. Best, lightest, shifts smoothest
Shimano Ultegra = Also good, not quite as light
Shimano 105 = lowest. Still works.
(Actually there are lower ones than this now = Sora, Tiagra, etc)

Brand name: Campagnolo (Italian. Somewhat rare)
Campagnolo Record = top end. Quite pricey. WONDERFUL. Well engineered.
Campagnolo Chorus = lower end of Campagnolo, but still VERY VERY nice.

Brand name: SRAM (American. Extremely good.)
SRAM Red = top end.
SRAM Force = Very good.
SRAM Rival = Good.

If you should find a bike with the right size frame and it has Campagnolo ("Campy") or SRAM components, snap that thing up!  There's nothing wrong with Shimano, though. Except it's just not as good. (Others will disagree here.)

Step 3 = Everything else.
Everything else is on a case by case basis, and doesn't cost nearly as much. You can go get a saddle that works fine at Performance bike for $30. Wheels - you'll always have a chance to get nice wheels down the road sometime.
2010-07-01 8:02 AM
in reply to: #2954800

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Thanks for the lesson, Alice!  That taught me a lot!!
2010-07-01 8:34 AM
in reply to: #2955218

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
My first bike was very similar (Dawes Lightning of some sort). I have ridden carbon bikes, aluminum and steel. I still cant tell the difference except when I pick the bikes up. The ride seems very similar to me. I rode my "entry level" bike for three years. I learned bike handling, how to make myself crash, how to clip/unclip,etc. I then stepped up from a 200$ bike to an 800$ bike last year. This aluminum bike has an integrated triathlon set up, slightly nicer wheels and is red instead of white. What I have found is I wont really get faster unless I can get more than 4 hours a week on my bike (which is hard for me to do). I would say go with an entry bike as long as it is safe. Make sure the shifting components for the bike are integrated with the brakes and not located elsewhere. Other than that try to ride as much as you can cause that is the only way to get better at it.


2010-07-01 9:57 AM
in reply to: #2954800

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
This is why I like this site and the people on it!  Adjustable seat, I was just thinking up and down.  Didn't occur to me about adjusting forward and backward.

Carbon, Aluminum, steele fork.  I overlooked that on this bike.

Integrated shifters.  I found some other pics of this bike and although I knew it didn't have integrated shifters, where these are located, I'm not too sure about.  My current bike are stem mounted. 

And yes,  I am getting a bike fit before I actually buy anything.

And I'm copying everyone's input from this thread to keep handy while I'm looking!
2010-07-01 1:25 PM
in reply to: #2955663

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
FWIW, I bought a beginner Dawes Lightning road Bike from SportyMamabikes.com (thanks Newbz for that suggestion) for around $270 and there was no shipping cost. The bike is nothing special bottom end Shimano Derailleurs etc. I have been really happy with the bike - I knew that I wasn't looking to spend a lot of money (as I know that when I actually figure out what I am doing I'll buy a big girl bike) and that I just needed a basic road bike to give me the feel for riding a bike (especially since the last time I rode a bike prior to triathlon was when I was drunk as a freshman in college and I comandeered a bike to get me from south campus to north campus). The only downside to this bike is the shifters are on the downtube which is kind of bothersome but outside of that it has proved to be a great bike thus far and has served its purpose. To reiterate what some others have said in this thread, while a good bike and fancy components are well and good, it really is the motor that is running the bike that will make the most difference. I guess my feeling is, once I have some ride time in the saddle and some triathlon experience under my belt, that's when I will take the time to upgrade and buy a "grown-up" bike, for the time being the basic less than $300 road bike is doing its job.
2010-07-01 1:39 PM
in reply to: #2955663

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Dan, I'm not sure it is worth the drive for you, but there is an outreach from the Wright Tri Club at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, where they supply "custom" built bikes for current and prospective riders. You may want to check with Mike Allen and see what they have in stock.

I am not an expert at cycling components, but the bikes look interesting to me and I believe they are supplied "at cost".

See list of current bikes here.

Good luck.
2010-07-01 3:35 PM
in reply to: #2954800

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
I've seen a couple of Dawes Lightnings online.  After my bike fitting I'll look at those more closely.
2010-07-01 7:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
bananatoes - 2010-07-01 9:34 AM My first bike was very similar (Dawes Lightning of some sort). I have ridden carbon bikes, aluminum and steel. I still cant tell the difference except when I pick the bikes up. The ride seems very similar to me. I rode my "entry level" bike for three years. I learned bike handling, how to make myself crash, how to clip/unclip,etc. I then stepped up from a 200$ bike to an 800$ bike last year. This aluminum bike has an integrated triathlon set up, slightly nicer wheels and is red instead of white. What I have found is I wont really get faster unless I can get more than 4 hours a week on my bike (which is hard for me to do). I would say go with an entry bike as long as it is safe. Make sure the shifting components for the bike are integrated with the brakes and not located elsewhere. Other than that try to ride as much as you can cause that is the only way to get better at it.


I did see a Dawes Lighting 1000.  Just under $400 at bikesdirect.com.  It has a Chromoly fork that I read is a steel alloy.  I know it's not as good as a carbon fiber fork, but how does it compare to an aluminum fork?

Derailers are Shimamo 2200 series both front and back.
Shimano 2203 intregrated shifters.
NEW Shimano 2200 shifter/brake levers and Tektro RL-570 Top Mount on flat portion of handlebar for additional braking position


2010-07-02 5:36 AM
in reply to: #2957050

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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
danbob - 2010-07-01 8:52 PM

I did see a Dawes Lighting 1000.  Just under $400 at bikesdirect.com.  It has a Chromoly fork that I read is a steel alloy.  I know it's not as good as a carbon fiber fork, but how does it compare to an aluminum fork?

Derailers are Shimamo 2200 series both front and back.
Shimano 2203 intregrated shifters.
NEW Shimano 2200 shifter/brake levers and Tektro RL-570 Top Mount on flat portion of handlebar for additional braking position

What you are going to notice with a Aluminum or Chromoly fork are the bumps and ridges you go over on the road. It is going to be a bit bumpier and stiffer. Yes a carbon fiber fork is nice but it all depends on your price point.
I have never ridden a Dawes to know the fit... Just make sure you ride some different sized bikes at Trek, Performance or Bike Source before you pull the trigger.
2010-07-02 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Danbob -
Integrated shifters are where you don't have to take your hand off the top of the brake (brake hoods) to shift. This is really useful, and in my opinion, safer. It's also more comfortable.
Here is a pic:


The silver part is the brake lever, like you are used to. The black part behind it moves back and forth like a pendulum or paddle, clicking with each gear.

These are also called STI shifters.

Another option is "bar-end shifter" which make it so you can shift without leaving the aero position. This is a nice feature on a tri bike, but for a road bike, I prefer integrated shifters.

I was really happy I had integrated shifters for a very hilly tri I did. There was no way I was going to be in aero position crawling up these steep hills, and by having the shifter right under the brake hoods, I was able to easily shift the big chainring and the little gears in the back, even while standing up in the pedals or struggling. It makes shifting more intuitive, instead of something you only do once in a while.
2010-07-02 1:27 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Regarding steel, aluminum, carbon (per Tom's post)

Some people do say they can't feel the difference. I think it might depend on people's body composition or something.

I can feel the difference so much that I could tell that my husband replaced my aluminum seat post (on my road bike) with a carbon one, without him telling me he did it and without actually looking at it.

Some people call the feel of a stiffer ride "responsive."
I call it bumpy and rattly.

The roads where I live are far from perfect. I can feel a line in the pavement on steel components. I can't feel it at all on carbon.

Also the carbon allows for many more options in the shaping of the frame - it allows it to be more aero. Normally this is really not that important if you are just starting out. But I have realized this year that my "aero-ness" does make a noticeable difference. On hill climbs, it seems to be all about strength/power. Bigger guys carrying extra weight can still out-climb me if they are strong. On flats, same thing.  But on downhills, I am now passing people bigger than me. That shouldn't be. I should be getting passed on the downhills by anyone who weighs more than me. I am only about 120, so that's pretty much everybody. But I've found that with my tri bike, I will be drafting off someone bigger than me, and I will have to pass them or ride the brake on descents because I am coasting faster than they are. Sometimes they are even pedaling and I am coasting to try to stay behind them, and I'm still going faster than they are.

But again, this would not be a real concern for a first bike.
2010-07-02 9:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Well I picked up the old bike from the LBS this afternoon and went out for a ride this evening.  It was a much nicer ride, but there is still an issue with some of the gears.  So, it is definitely new bike time.

The guy there took the time to go over fitting for a bike, sizes, steele, aluminum and carbon.  Even though I'm not spending much, I now know certain things to look for and what I should make sure I get.

I thought it was interesting that he prefers steele frame bikes. 

Thanks for all of the info.  Even though it's only entry level, there is a lot to consider. 
2010-07-09 9:40 AM
in reply to: #2959221


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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike

Frame and integration are the most important things - but i will touch on something that i noticed. It may be personal preference, but i noticed the triple chain ring. In my opinion - it promotes bad mechanics. I came to the Tri world from the Road Cycling world and It's always been my observation that road bikes with triple chain rings distort understanding proper gear ratio with new road cyclists. I guess - if the crutch is there when you are being introduced to the sport, under the duress of hills and miles, you'll use it - and never train to achieve the wattage you need correctly. I’d love to know if people see this differently. 



2010-07-09 12:02 PM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
I don't think having a triple is a bad thing. I have a triple on my roadie and very very rarely get into the third ring. However, it has been nice to have on some really brutal climbs and a ride in the little hills that they have in West Virginia.
2010-07-09 2:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Well, after busting my chain on my second ride after getting it back from the shop for a tune-up, I ordered the Dawes Lighting 1000.

24 speed, integrated shifters and brakes on the flat part of the handle bars as well.

Another thing that interested me was that it was the only one that I was looking at that I can adjust the pitch of the handle bars.

I did take into consideration all of the advice and ended up spending a little more than I had originally planned and even though it is still entry level, I will probably be happier with this one than the cheaper ones I was looking at.

It is scheduled to arrive on Tuesday!

And thanks everyone for your input. 
2010-07-13 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
Did you recieve your bike today?  Is it what you expected? 
2010-07-13 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Looking for input on a new bike
cj2 - 2010-07-13 4:39 PM Did you recieve your bike today?  Is it what you expected? 


The bike arrived today!!!  Can't tell yet if it is what I expected.  It said 90% assembled and I read online what I should have to put together before I bought it.  Front wheel, seat, handlebars and attached brake cable and pedals.  After the box that came with it, I knew I was in over my head.

Long story short, the LBS will have it ready for me on Friday.  I'll let you know Friday night after I get back from my ride.
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