For those interested in Kona>

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Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to obtain a slot for AG in Kona? Is it doable if you work hard for a few years training right, or will only the elite of the elite make it there?

Master

2404

Redlands, CA

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

TheEdge - 2010-08-10 8:01 AM Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to obtain a slot for AG in Kona? Is it doable if you work hard for a few years training right, or will only the elite of the elite make it there?

You'll get varying answers here, but I do think a person can who works hards and does the right thing can make it. Do realize though we are all individual butterflies and some can fly higher than others.

I think first and foremost you need to reach your potential in this sport, then work from there. That in and of itself takes at least a year.

Edited by furiousferret 2010-08-10 10:12 AM

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Veteran

141

Wolverine, Michigan

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

marcag - 2010-08-09 6:50 PM

nc452010 - 2010-08-09 5:32 PM I?

I read several of your posts in this thread. Just because I, or you, may not be able to imagine doing times like this does not mean we should immediately blame PEDs.

They guy that won IMLP 40-44 this year is a local guy here. If you met him you would realize how ridiculous an accusation like PEDs would be.

He has been doing this for over 20 years. He works like a mad man. He is a dedicated community man. He is a dedicated school teacher. He is a dedicated father. He is just starting his kids in tri. He races every weekend. And he goes all out, every race. This weekend he raced two races, back to back. He is always willing to help others. He is a community guy, solid values....just a great guy.

A friend of mine has know him for years and he has always been like that. Just putting in tons and tons and tons of hours, all at full tilt. I cannot imagine training like that. But having met this guy, his wife, having seen his dtermination, I know the way to get there is not necessarily PEDS.

I will never get there because I don't have the drive, the talent or the gonads. But just because I won't get there, doesn't mean he needs PEDs to get there.

Yes, there are plenty of people that give off this image of 'mr perfect', but this guy is for real. And there are plenty others.

He has always been a great biker. But he was a bad swimmer and an average runner. But he spent tons and tons of time in the pool and on the run. I think he did 55min in Placid. Not bad for a 'terrible' swimmer (self proclaimed). I doubt PEDs got him to 55min. Very hard work did.

Just because someone does something we can never imagine doing does not mean they are doped. Sorry for the rant, between this and the accusations against Chrissie it's just getting to be annoying.

Not that this person is using PED's, but most people do not understand PED's. For the most part they don't instantly make you stronger, but allow you to train harder and more often to become stronger.

You can do 3 sessions a day, day after day, training that would be overtraining without PED's. There is no such thing as overtraining with PED's!

New user

128

Boulder, CO

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

NorthernNewbie - 2010-08-10 10:05 AM

marcag - 2010-08-09 6:50 PM

nc452010 - 2010-08-09 5:32 PM I?

I read several of your posts in this thread. Just because I, or you, may not be able to imagine doing times like this does not mean we should immediately blame PEDs.

They guy that won IMLP 40-44 this year is a local guy here. If you met him you would realize how ridiculous an accusation like PEDs would be.

He has been doing this for over 20 years. He works like a mad man. He is a dedicated community man. He is a dedicated school teacher. He is a dedicated father. He is just starting his kids in tri. He races every weekend. And he goes all out, every race. This weekend he raced two races, back to back. He is always willing to help others. He is a community guy, solid values....just a great guy.

A friend of mine has know him for years and he has always been like that. Just putting in tons and tons and tons of hours, all at full tilt. I cannot imagine training like that. But having met this guy, his wife, having seen his dtermination, I know the way to get there is not necessarily PEDS.

I will never get there because I don't have the drive, the talent or the gonads. But just because I won't get there, doesn't mean he needs PEDs to get there.

Yes, there are plenty of people that give off this image of 'mr perfect', but this guy is for real. And there are plenty others.

He has always been a great biker. But he was a bad swimmer and an average runner. But he spent tons and tons of time in the pool and on the run. I think he did 55min in Placid. Not bad for a 'terrible' swimmer (self proclaimed). I doubt PEDs got him to 55min. Very hard work did.

Just because someone does something we can never imagine doing does not mean they are doped. Sorry for the rant, between this and the accusations against Chrissie it's just getting to be annoying.

Not that this person is using PED's, but most people do not understand PED's. For the most part they don't instantly make you stronger, but allow you to train harder and more often to become stronger.

You can do 3 sessions a day, day after day, training that would be overtraining without PED's. There is no such thing as overtraining with PED's!

Exactly, what most think is an indication of a clean competitor is just the opposite.

Champion

7595

Columbia, South Carolina

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

Lurch - 2010-08-10 12:45 PM

NorthernNewbie - 2010-08-10 10:05 AM [snip]

You can do 3 sessions a day, day after day, training that would be overtraining without PED's. There is no such thing as overtraining with PED's!

Exactly, what most think is an indication of a clean competitor is just the opposite.

Oh, great. So now because I sometimes do 3-a-days I'm using PEDs? Maybe I won't swim today to avoid suspicion.

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Coach

10487

Boston, MA

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

NorthernNewbie - 2010-08-10 11:05 AM

marcag - 2010-08-09 6:50 PM

nc452010 - 2010-08-09 5:32 PM I?

I read several of your posts in this thread. Just because I, or you, may not be able to imagine doing times like this does not mean we should immediately blame PEDs.

They guy that won IMLP 40-44 this year is a local guy here. If you met him you would realize how ridiculous an accusation like PEDs would be.

He has been doing this for over 20 years. He works like a mad man. He is a dedicated community man. He is a dedicated school teacher. He is a dedicated father. He is just starting his kids in tri. He races every weekend. And he goes all out, every race. This weekend he raced two races, back to back. He is always willing to help others. He is a community guy, solid values....just a great guy.

A friend of mine has know him for years and he has always been like that. Just putting in tons and tons and tons of hours, all at full tilt. I cannot imagine training like that. But having met this guy, his wife, having seen his dtermination, I know the way to get there is not necessarily PEDS.

I will never get there because I don't have the drive, the talent or the gonads. But just because I won't get there, doesn't mean he needs PEDs to get there.

Yes, there are plenty of people that give off this image of 'mr perfect', but this guy is for real. And there are plenty others.

He has always been a great biker. But he was a bad swimmer and an average runner. But he spent tons and tons of time in the pool and on the run. I think he did 55min in Placid. Not bad for a 'terrible' swimmer (self proclaimed). I doubt PEDs got him to 55min. Very hard work did.

Just because someone does something we can never imagine doing does not mean they are doped. Sorry for the rant, between this and the accusations against Chrissie it's just getting to be annoying.

Not that this person is using PED's, but most people do not understand PED's. For the most part they don't instantly make you stronger, but allow you to train harder and more often to become stronger.

You can do 3 sessions a day, day after day, training that would be overtraining without PED's. There is no such thing as overtraining with PED's!

Of course, which is the reason I mentioned above for the WTC or USAT to implement an adequate doping testing program it would be almost impossible for amateurs given the cost, logistics and potential implications. Still, while I don't doubt there are those using PEDs to cheat their way to Kona or win some small local race, I still think those are in the minority. I also believe many of the current AG times earning slots to Kona are not only possible, but also far from suspicious at all for in particular when the biggest limiter most AGers have for training is time and consistency. IOW, physiologically speaking, if an athlete has the discipline, motivation, time, consistency and injury-resistance, they can very well train their bodies for great IM performances. And because of that, there is not reason for me to doubt many of these performances, in particular when I have access to some of these athletes data, both in training and racing.

For that reason, I think is unfair attempting to paint every good performance with the "PEDs suspicion" brush. Also as I said, IMO that reaction is nothing more than a way to rationalize why some will never have what it takes to even make an honest attempt to see if they can earn their way there.

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Veteran

141

Wolverine, Michigan

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

Experior - 2010-08-10 11:52 AM

Lurch - 2010-08-10 12:45 PM

NorthernNewbie - 2010-08-10 10:05 AM [snip]

You can do 3 sessions a day, day after day, training that would be overtraining without PED's. There is no such thing as overtraining with PED's!

Exactly, what most think is an indication of a clean competitor is just the opposite.

Oh, great. So now because I sometimes do 3-a-days I'm using PEDs? Maybe I won't swim today to avoid suspicion.

That is not what I said. Not sometime you do 3-a-days, most fit people can do that for a day or two. But with PED's you do them day after day for weeks without a rest day. Talk to somone who is on them or has been, they will tell you they rarely feel fatigued.

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Champion

9600

Fountain Hills, AZ

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

You bet I did, as much so because of the race being more competitive as the improved weather conditions present in Nov. vs. April. I knew my '07 9:43 wouldn't do it and it had to be sub 9:30 to be sure and I was spot on. If you went 9:33, you were in the roll down.

I know a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to decide which race to qualify at, but it really doesn't matter. The level of athlete is constant across most of the North American races, the quality of the field is consistently strong.

Edited by bryancd 2010-08-10 2:02 PM

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Champion

7036

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: For those interested in Kona>

PennState - 2010-08-10 8:26 AM While PEDs are probably being used by a few AGers, *I* believe that it is not a big issue.

I think it is sometimes used as an excuse by those who are on the cusp of qualifying but aren't quite there. I am on that CUSP, but here are the things I will not be using as excuses, EVER:

1. Genetics.
2. Too busy with work.
3. Others using PEDs.
4. Others with better equipment or coaching.
5. Luck.

Whether *I* qualify or not is 100% up to me. No excuses, no conspiracy theories etc.
I do believe that it has become much harder to qualify, but that is mainly a popularity/numbers game imho.

I'm just not fond of excuses, be they legitimate or not.

Amen.

I was a tennis player back in my youth and idolized the Harry Hopman-coached Aussies of the 60's: Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, Roy Emerson, John Newcomb, etc.

They had a philosophy that if you stepped onto the court you were verifying that you were healthy, ready to play and had no excuses. If you lost, it was because your opponent beat you. You were humble in victory and gracious in defeat.

Wish we would see more of that type of sportsmanship and values in today's professional athletes.

Mark

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