Strokes per length (Page 2)

AdventureBear - 2010-10-27 12:38 PM You need to practice active streamlining with every stroke. Good swimmers do it without thiking, but slower/newer swimmers do all sorts of things wtih their body parts and balance that reduce streamlining and increases drag. Drag reduction is the most important thing any swimmer can do for all parst of the stroke (and all strokes) Here is a great example...notice how much his streamlining is improved in teh after video...the segments near the end of the clinic demonstrate this well. http://distancedave.com/2010/10/27/looking-fast-vs-being-fast/ .

maxmattmick - 2010-10-27 7:31 AM I like dragging my thumb across my thigh on each stroke - makes for a longer stroke and almost automatically lowers your stroke count...

good luck!

1stTimeTri - 2010-10-27 2:00 PM

This thread.  Can't help laffing.  It gets better and better.  Oh, my mind.

Kido - 2010-10-27 4:01 PM

I'm really tall and have a huge reach.  So I have a LONG stroke.

disturbed - 2010-10-27 4:56 PM

so the idea of the stroke count is to use mroe power, let your self glide some? which could potentially decrease overuse injury in shoulder? and maybe endurance due to less strokes?

at first maybe you might tire until you build up the strength?

rayd - 2010-10-27 2:09 PM



what is a tempo trainer?  normally at 19/21 I am just under 1-minute per 100-meters for about 500 meters.  Then I get slower.  When I was trying the lower stroke count I was about 10-seconds per 100 slower and felt off-balance.

JZig - 2010-10-27 5:22 PM

So for someone such as myself who swam more than 50m without resting for the first time ever 5 months ago, is reducing my stroke count something I should be focusing on, or is it just kind of a natural result of becoming a better swimmer?

AdventureBear - 2010-10-27 5:33 PM It's a metronome you use under your swim cap to aid with training your stroke rate. Stroke rate and distance per stroke are the 2 components that create your speed. Each has to be optimized. Contrary to the percieved party lines of "stroke faster" and "stroke longer", the ideals are not (respectively) "stroke as fast as you can" nor "swim as few strokes as possible". Stroke count can be decreased by working on technique which indicates good balance & streamlining along with adequate forward propulsion. Stroke rate can be increased as long as it doesn't result in a significant disruption of form. Learning ways to use the two metrics together will help your swimming far more than simply trying to swim harder or faster. swimming "better" will always bring about faster swimming when approached systematically. I your case, the first thing I might assign for you to do is to get a tempo traininer and swim your 500 at a set tempo (you'll have to experimenet) and find the tempo at which you can comfortably swim a 500. This may take 2 or 3 efforts either the same day, or on subsequent workouts (even subsequent weeks...no need to torture yourself using the thing...take your time learing how to use it). Say you find that you can comfortabely swim a 500 yd set with a stroke rate of 1.2 seconds (just a place to start). You can swim this 500 and feel pretty tired, but not wiped out. From this starting point you can approach your swim training in 2 different directions (well lots of ways but here are 2 ideas) 1) Now that you've idetified a starting point, repeat the same set when fresh. (either after a rest on the same workout day or a different day). During this 500, count your strokes, either first 25 of each 100, or count strokes per 100. Example: Your first 100 you take 16 SPL for each 25. The middle 3x100 you are swimming 17-18 SPL per 25. During the last 100, you swim teh following stroke counts per 25: 17-18-20-20. This type of set would indicate that you are fatiguing near the end and your form is falling apart. With this information you can create some workout sets for your upcoming week(s) of traiing. Ideally, you'd be able to hold the same (lower) stroke count from teh beginig to the end of your 500 while maintaining your stroke rate. Suppose you took off strokes during your last 100 of the above sample set, so that each length was 16 SPL as it was in the beginning. You'd shave off 11 strokes just from the last 100. 11 x 1.2 seconds = about 24 seconds you've shaved off your 500 time by simply focusing on your swim form alone. To accomplish this in a practical matter you'd have stroke thoughts in mind while you swam...things like reaching forward, stretching your lats, diagonal flow from opposite wrist & foot, eyes down, neck long, rotate to breath, etc...there are dozens of singular stroke thoughts you could use. AS the 500 goes on and you begin to fatigue, you simply focus on one of these specific stroke thoughts to regain your distance per stroke and get the count back down to where it was in the beginning. 2) Suppose your stroke counts remain pretty stead from the first 100 to the last 100, without climbing significantly. AT this point in order to get faster, since there's no "easy pickin's" of removing strokes at the end, in order to get faster, you'll have to swim at a faster turnover (while maitainign the same stroke rate). So you take your trusty tempo trainer and create some sets with gradually increasing rates, but shorter durations. EG. your firrst 500 is at a rate of 1.2 sec/stroke, and stroke count remains the same for the duration (+/- a stroke or two). Do sets of 2 x 250, @ 1.18 sec/stroke, 4 x 125 @ 1.16 sec/stroke, 5 x 100 @ 1.14 sec per stroke. In this way you are training your nervous system ot hold the same form while gradually increasing the rate. Now begin to slowly add distance back to the sets at the slightly lower rates and still hold the same stroke counts from beginning to the end. If you get back up to a 500 at 1.14 s/stroke (from your starting point of 1.2 s/stroke) @ an SPL of 16, then you've just swum the set 19 seconds faster. (20 lengths x 16 SPL x .06 sec saved/stroke). Those are just some ideas to get you started. Using the tempo trainer is nearly limitless in terms of the ways you can create & structure sets for swimming both longer & faster. Some people love it, some people hate it, some people need just the right amount to keep from going insane with it (it beeps incessantly), other people learn to love the beep because the recognize the value it provides in swimming better & faster, with better form. Hope those ideas help. Does your stroke count significantly increase by the end of the 500?

jlennon - 2010-10-27 9:32 AM Some great suggestions here and I will use them (I'm awful at swimming and never even thought about counting my strokes in the pool). Question though that I thought about when reading through the thread--do you push off at the wall usually? It does feel like "cheating" and I know that when I am tired it seems as if I do more of a push off than when I am first starting my swim. Does anyone just touch the wall, push off with the arms and swim without the extra push fro the legs? Maybe I'll try that.... 

1stTimeTri - 2010-10-27 5:00 PM

This thread.  Can't help laffing.  It gets better and better.  Oh, my mind.

maxmattmick - 2010-10-28 12:19 PM

this is a real swim drill... maybe I worded it wrong? thus the laffing?

tyler777 - 2010-10-29 8:46 PM Had my first swim coach session ever last weekend with TI coach Kevin. I counted his strokes when he swam a couple laps: 9! His arms were moving slowly, but he was covering distance at a  really impressive pace. Granted, that was with a long kickoff.

l.. makes total sense tho to staye streamline and be effecient