Does fit really matter on the (road) bike? (Page 2)

1.  Yes, that's why you hire a fitter (or spend a lot of time figuring it out yourself).  And bear mind that we are not talking about getting the fit perfect on the bike (which can take time, and will possible evolve over time anyway).  We are talking about which bikes will work for you.
2.  That hasn't been my experience (though of course I haven't been to 'most shops').
3.  There should be a decent fitter within some reasonable distance of where you live.  A little research online (or just ask in the relevant state forum) should turn up results.
4.  You are going to pay the fitter.  You don't owe him or her anything beyond that.  If you go to a fitter with the clear intention of finding out what sorts of geometry and size will work for you, the fitter won't expect you to buy a bike.  (If he or she does, that's not really your problem...)

+1,000,000!!!! 

Using a trainer to get an initial impression is one thing, but you must ride to see how the bike handles for you.  Fitters vary a lot in competence, and you are never obligated to do exactly what they say.  A great fitting can be wondrous, but a poor one can steer you to a bike you'll stop riding.  Unfortunately, I know more than a few folks that's happened to.  In the end, the bike must work for YOU.

When I bought my Tarmac a while ago, that shop even let me swap my own wheels/tires for test riding it & a similarly priced  Roubaix (both great bikes, but I like Tarmac's sharper handling).  Two other shops also let me swap to my wheels for test rides.  (They did ask for CC as collateral, which I understand when borrowing $3-4k bike for longish test ride).  Right now I have 3 roadies & (between wife & I) 7 wheelsets. It's amazing how different wheels & tires affect ride & handling. 

BTW- Not a thing wrong with AB's suggestion to buy a cheap used bike, or even borrow one, to ride for a while.  Then use it for comparison for finding what you really want. 

Good luck & enjoy your quest.

Edited by Oldteen 2010-10-31 7:18 PM

Ummm,... actually my last homeopath prescribed graphite for what ails me.

But yeah. I've considered other options like a cheap aluminium ride. Then I've got a friend at work who keeps offering to help me buy a chinese frame and build it up with eBay components.

But I'm fairly sure I'll ride the cheapie for three months. Get frustrated and envious. Lash out and buy the one I really wanted anyway.

Then one quiet night, the headlights on the neglected little cheapie will light up with a strange orange glow. I'll notice it wearing strange twisted grin as it advances towards me across the darkened room....

The neighbours will only ever notice a few muffled cries in the night and a trickle of dried blood on the stairs next morning.

I'd say my fitness is fine. I've put down about 10,000k on my MTB in the last 18 months. OTOH I'm planning to go back to study next year so that'll all go up in smoke.

OK. Allow me to explain,.

First my business went bung. Then my partner broke her back. Then I got into debt trying to hold it all together. Then I got severe clinical depression. Then.... you get the picture.

It's been more than 10 years since I was able to actually go out and buy one nice thing just for me.

I get paid once a month. I'm four weeks away from having the cash for the sort of bike I'd like. Factoring in the expense of an independent fit probably pushes me a whole month more down the track.

And just to add a little juice. I'll be starting a Masters degree in March. If I can possibly avoid it, I'd really prefer not to spend half the summer still waiting for my new toy.

Apart from the personal stuff. I'd also kinda come to the conclusion that, yeah - when it comes to  buying TT, it's worth spending on pro-fit. But for a first roadie, it's not really worth the trouble. The guys in the shop will be capable of making the right adjustments once I decide on a model.

Also, like you said, there are scads of bikes out there, and unless your proportions are very unusual, there are scads that will fit you.

But OK, maybe you're right. Maybe
 1. start shopping for a fitter, then
 2. move on to shopping for a bike.


Edited by There is no Tri 2010-10-31 7:50 PM

Yeah. Maybe that's an american thing.

I've asked just about every shop in the area. Some will let you take a shortish test ride. None of them are willing to let you do anything extensive. 

Maybe that's just cos they see me as a noob. Also, I have no experience with clipless, so a 15 minute ride is gonna be mostly just me wobbling around and trying desperately to stay upright.

PS. Excellent info in the previous posts about Madone vs Spec. Thanks

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  Life is tough.  (I don't mean that facetiously!)

I do think that you are more likely to be happy with your purchase if you make sure the bike fits in advance.  And that will make life better!  

Time for an update,..

I found a local Scott dealer (yay!)
 and an independent bike fitter (boo!)

Yes. The Scott Addict is hawt.

Call me crazy, but walking into a shop full of different bikes, I found that focusing on the geometry meant that I could narrow the selection down to one or two bikes in a matter of seconds.

OK. It may not be the most perfectly analytical method but I found that I could pick out a bike quickly, with confidence and know what I was paying money for.

As far as trial rides, I got the same story as everywhere else - you can sit on the trainer or take a 15 minute ride around the park. They weren't being difficult, the guy even said he'd come out and do a lap with me if I gave them a day's notice.

Reasoning is much the same as everywhere else - with carbon frames, people want to know they are buying a completely new bike with no cracks or damage. So for all the people who keep saying they'd walk out of the shop if they don't get an extensive trial, I really don't know where you're buying, but I've asked around, and my experience doesn't match what you're saying.

On to the independent fitter,...

$600

!

!!!!

 ... on a $3,000 bike purchase!!!

To be honest, I felt a bit silly asking for a full, professional fit for my very first little roadie. Besides the price tag, I almost feel like I'd be wasting the guy's time. I'm not a semi-pro IM athlete looking to measure up a custom design TT bike. I'm just an amateur rider looking for a stock roadie.

Nonetheless, I went and had a word. They had no hesitation in saying that yes, even an amateur on a $3k bike would be well advised to come in and get a proper fit.

So I don't have to worry about feeling silly, but damn that's a lotta extra cash.

sounds like they are blowing smoke up your...err...bellows...

$600! Did you laugh in their face? Do you at least get a happy ending with your bike fit?
I'm all for making money but good god... $600 for a fit... anything over $200 and you are really paying somebody's ego and not their experience.

He is, reportedly the best by a long way.

If I had olympic ambitions or weird orthopaedic abnormalities, I could see the value.

For an amateur of average dimensions, good flexibility and limited budget, it looks like a unnecessary luxury.

Dan Empfield or John Cobb?

You are indeed welcome to think it's a luxury (and a $600 fit certainly IS one) but a normal fit... in the normal price range, I will still argue is closer to "necessity" than "luxury." I suppose you could figure it out yourself, as I'm sure many have. But I suggest you ask your local roadies, triathletes, and mtn bikers if they got a fit or if they "figured it out."

Although if the local fitter is charging $600 there may be a large amount of them that were forced to do it themselves.

Couldn't agree more......In fact this summer I bought my first "decent" raod bike.  I did a lot of hunting!!    Went  to so many different shops and talked to many people....on this site and in person.

  Couldn't agree with the majority of the comments posted by users here.......FIT FIT FIT!!

  My LBS was awesome.  Set me up on my bike, gave me a very basic fitting... reason being he said  was my style was going to change.  After riding for 2 months my style had changed quite a bit.  Took the bike to the LBS he did some adjusting and more detailed fitting...at no charge...and the bike feels even better.  Come Spring time who knows...I may need to be fitted further and he may not be able to handle it or want to charge me??!!??  I plan on trying to get as aero as possible before having to go out and shop another bike.  Either way, long story short, fit makes the difference!!

Just my $0.02 from a "newbie" to the wonderful world of TRI!!

You keep mentioning knowing the geometry you were looking for allowed you to make your decision; however I am curious as to what you were actually looking at in terms of the geometry?

Shane

$600, even for Dan Empfield or John Cobb, is not worth it. The #1 recommended bike fitter in this area charges ~ $200.

I think the best answer to the bike fit for newbies dilemma is simple: buy a starter bike, ride it for a while until you are an ex-newbie, then sell it and get a better bike.

Your second bike will fit better than your first bike, mostly because you'll have filled in the experience gap. In other words, after riding a bike for a couple thousand miles, you will know what the heck you are doing. You'll know if the top tube is short or long, or if you want a longer stem, or if the seat just won't slide far enough forward or you can't get X to fit Y just right.

For most people, the first bike just needs to get close enough and be good enough. No need for Ultegra or Dura-Ace. Craigslist and eBay and the like have many used road bikes. Spend as little as possible, just get out of the old junk bike territory.

This works much better than dropping $2000+ on a new bike and then more on some fitter, and then discover six months later that you want a new bike anyway.

Steve Hogg
http://www.cyclefitcentre.com/index.htm

There is another LBS that does an 'independent' fit with 3D video analysis for $350. But that's still quite expensive and seems a bit gimmicky.

But from what you're saying, if you can get a competent fit for $200, I can see why you'd treat it as a basic necessity.

I totally agree.

That's why I've decided to limit to limit myself to a Tarmac.

But yeah, I've considered a bunch of options. I'm happy to sit down and list them for anyone who's interested.

For the purposes of this thread though, I'm pretty much gonna focus on a 'starter' bike in the $3k range, probably carbon with 105 group (give or take).

I don't think I "keep mentioning" it.

KG pointed it out. I said 'Hey! That makes a lot of sense.'

I went to a bike shop and tested that approach.

Result: I felt a sense of confidence that I could narrow down the selection and understand why I was looking at a particular bike.



Not just what I was looking at.

Probably more important is _what I wasn't looking at_

I wasn't looking at cleat position, seat-post adjustability, handlebar width and all the infinitessimal adjustments.

I was simply looking for a nice, light, aggressive road bike with a responsive frame and suitable running gear.

The reason I asked is that you mentioned geometry at least a couple of times in terms of bike selection but I didn't get the impression that you fully understood what is meant by the idea of bike geometry.

While there are several other considerations, at a basic level there is one key aspect that people think of when it comes to bike geometry and that is seat tube angle.  In general, a typical road bike would be have a slack seat tube angle while a tri/TT would normally have a steeper seat tube angle.  Based on this, you can see why I was confused as to how you were using geometry to narrow your search.

Shane

A $3000 bike is not a starter bike.

And $3000 should buy you a light carbon road bike with full Ultegra groupset and nice wheels, or you're paying way too much for it. Way too much...

$150 is more on par for an 1.5-2hr fitting, in my humble opinion.  As a previous poster noted a 3k bike should have a free fitting by said LBS, if not find a new place. The guy maybe the cats meow as far as fitters, but your attitude (not trying to denigrate) is its more important for you to blow some cash on a bike that for you that is on the outer curve of your expenses than to find something that is perfect for you.   Don't get me wrong I understand impulse buying and am guilty as sin. 

I was dead set on getting myself a cervelo P2, but it turned out due to body size and corresponding frame sizes the Trek Speed concept 7.0 is a better fit. 

Each portion of the bike has a corresponding sweet spot or window of adjustment where that specific size of the bike is meant to be configured in, you can go outside those sweet spots but expect some degradation of performance.  I would want the best fit bike for me for that amount of money.

 It turns out that due to reach I could certainly make the Cervelo fit, it would have been more unstable going down hills. Where I was dead nuts inside the sweet spots for the Trek XL as shipped.

If you are going all out and extending yourself, find a reputable shop willing to fit you for free with the purchase. In fact any shop that doesn't are a bunch of hacks no matter their size.

@brucemorgan

With all due respect, you guys don't know when you've got it good.

Scott Addict: $3,500
Specialized Tarmac SL2: $3,000
Giant TCR Advanced: $3,000
Madone 4.5: $2,600

All with 105 group.
Mainland US I'd be paying a whole lot less.

As to 'starter' bikes - I think that's a matter of opinion and circumstances.

While I have great respect for your opinions, I think you need to allow for the fact that people come to this with widely varying circumstances.

Personally:
 - I've been doing around 150km/week for the past 18 months
 - I have time for shopping now. I won't have time to do this in 6 months
 - the difference in cost is not a major determining factor
 - buying a $3k bike means I get all the LBS support that goes with it
 - I don't have a bunch of bike buddies to share ideas/bikes etc with. I'm on my own in this

@scut207

My point is if you're a noob and you're shopping around for a bike, "fit" is not a useful basis for making a decision.

I'm not saying you should disregard all concept of fit or get a bike that is completely the wrong size.

I'm all for demanding a careful fitting by the LBS. In large part the motivation for this thread is that I have found a tremendously high level of expertise in just about every shop I walk into. I don't need to think about fit. I respect their ability to provide competent, professional advice.

My basic point is that people in my position would do better to focus on knowing the purpose of their bike, finding an LBS they're happy with. And most of all, clearing your head of details so you can see the spark of chemistry in that special someone,...

OTOH, others are saying you should get an independent fit before even standing over any particular bike. Then apply those dimensions to the calculate the specific solution, then...

Sorry

Didn't mean to make you all sound so .... german.

@gsmacleod

I think I have a fair understanding about what frame geometry actually means, before this thread, I knew almost nothing about how the variables affect the behaviour of the bike.

Specifically, what I was looking at last time was top tube length and angle. Seat post angle too, but to a lesser extent.

In USA I agree, but in many other countries bike prices are much higher.

@scut207

Reprise:

Took me a moment to notice, but yeah - although your post scores a point for LBS fitting, the example you gave about Cervelo vs Trek really wins the game for the independents.

If I could get _that_ sort of advice for $200 I'd be more than satisfied.

So are you saying that your decision was based on top tube length and the angle of the top tube?

Shane