Does fit really matter on the (road) bike?

To be more specific, if all you got's a ride around the block or 15 minutes on a trainer at the back of the shop. How can you possibly know which bike fits better at the end of 6 months training or your first HIM bike section?

For reference, I haven't ridden a roadie since I was 15. The likely suspects are: Specialised SL2 Tarmac; Trek Madone 4 Series; or Giant something something. Thanks


Edited by There is no Tri 2010-10-31 6:42 AM

Yes, it matters on every bike you have a seat on. Tri, road, mountain, cruiser, fixie...whatever.

Test it for yourself, drop your saddle about 3 inches or raise it the same and see if it matters.

- expanding

say you chose the Trek. Did you know it's a "taller" bike in the front than something like, say, a Felt? Does that effect you? Yes. How much drop/spacers you have/need will directly be effected.  Do you need to be riding a "race" geometry road bike like a Scott Addict or something closer to a Specialized Roubaix? I'd saying getting a pro fit on my road bike was just as important as it was on my tri bike.

On a tri bike you need to be comfortable/powerful in ONE position... the aero position. Every other position is a compromise to maximize that position (or it should be...)
On a road bike you need to be comfortable/powerful on the hoods, in the drops, on the tops, resting with your elbows on the pads, riding with one/no hands so you can eat/drink on the go, etc...

Edited by Leegoocrap 2010-10-31 6:47 AM

Yes.  Some things like seat height are adjustable, but other factors like seat angle, handle bar distance, stem length are all fine tweaks that can really help with your comfort on the bike and if out of tolerance too much can cause injury if you ride the bike too long with wrong measurements.

Sorry. Just to clarify.

Does fit really matter when deciding on a road bike purchase?

It makes sense to get the best available fit on the bike you buy. But can you really decide on a brand/model based on so-called "fit?"

Nope. What do you mean by a 'taller' bike?


Haven't found a Scott dealer locally.
How would you base a decision about race geomegtry or otherwise?


Interesting. I was gonna ditch the idea of a detailed fitting. But maybe I'll save more $ and rethink that.

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... also there's differences between bike brands and even in between the same brand ... for instance the Madone comes in a Pro fit and a Performance fit .... and though both in size 58 have a 573mm ETT (I think I remember that correctly), they ride differently .... the Pro fit a lot lower. The Spesh size 58 Tarmac has a longer 582mm ETT .... but stack falls in the middle of the Trek Pro fit and Performance fit.

From what I've seen so far, the Madone 4 Series are al performance fit  (~$3k). Pro fit kicks in at around the $7k price point. Although the LBS I spoke to explained it as basically just a difference in headset stack height.

OTOH, maybe they didn't see the point in trying to explain subtle differences in frame geometry between the two.

pretty much what jsselle was touching on. The madone is Trek's race bike, but if you were to put a madone beside a Felt F series or specialized tarmac (both companies *race bikes*) the madone would be taller in the head tube. That can effect your fit...do you need to be on a taller bike? Or are you going to get a madone and need to remove every spacer and get a negative rise stem? In that case you'd be better suited on a bike with a shorter head tube. 

The Race Geometry bikes are going to have you in a more aggressive position by nature. Their top tube is generally straight as opposed to sloping, the handling may be a bit more twitchy, and the ride quality will (generally) be a bit worse. Take the Tarmac vs. the Roubaix. Both excellent bikes that you could very realistically race on permanently. The Roubaix pay's an extra bit of attention to comfort (after all, it's namesake is supposedly a very uncomfortable race) that the Tarmac forgoes.

Any time you *could* get a fit vs. not... you should. It may seem like an extra $100-$300 you don't "NEED" now... but in the long run it'll save you a lot of pain/hassle/wonder... and most likely you will still end up going and getting it

Well,..

I remember someone telling once about how they determine allergies and intolerances in relfelxology. Say you're testing for lactose intolerance - they'll get you to hold a pint of milk in one hand while they exert downward pressure on the other (extended) arm. If you're lactose intolerant, your extended arm is more easily depressed (less capable of exerting any effective force).

So far, I've looked at a Fuji and a Giant. Held a Speccy while the shop-guy was taking it down from the rack. And stood over a Trek on the shop floor.

The Fuji did nothing for me. Giant was pretty. Trek felt fast. And the Spec gave me tingles.

Is this (or not) just as valid a decision hueristic as an infinitessimal analysis of fit?

And if fit is the right thing on which to base a decision, how do work out where you'll be with the bike in three years time if all you've got to go on is a 15-minute trial ride?

No...no more than fit matters when deciding what shoe to purchase.

Best way to buy a bike is to get a fit done where they measure your body, your flexibility and determine what type of riding you will be doing.

I think you are confusing bike geometry and purpose which effects design with bike fit.  First is the design of the bike by the mfg based on the intended purpose of the bike. Other is what your ideal geometry would be given how you plan to ride the bike. Road bike mfgs make bikes that are relaxed and aggressive and some bikes in between.

Some bike brands might not fit your body well based on your proportions. Others might fit you almost like a custom bike.

Seems you are mixing two different bike buying concepts..one is what you intend to use the bike for and how your riding will change over time which only you can really guess at and other is what we all use as bike fit which is measurements/geometry for an ideal bike based on your use.

I've had many bike fits and the fitter puts together recommendations of bikes based on ideal custom bike which is different for different bikes I have. My cross bike geometry is different than my road bike which is different than my tri bike as they have different purposes but my bike fit can be used to figure out ideal bikes for each of those three goals/uses.

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Edited by BrickLayer 2010-10-31 9:05 AM

So, if I am shopping for a new bike, the best way to get the right bike for me is: A) go to a LBS with an experience fitter and have them make recommendations on the right bike; B) go to the LBS, take some bikes for a quick test ride, pick the one that seems to feel the best and have them adjust the fit to me; C) go online and pick out the sexiest, most prestigious, high end bike I can afford, buy it an make it work; D) other way us newbies aren't getting?

somewhere in the middle of those is the right answer

Ideally, IMHO
-Get fit before you ever sit on a bike (most good fitters have one of those 'adjustment' bike moc ups to get your stack/reach, how you'll be riding, seat height, etc.)
-Get all the tips you can, from the fitter, some employee's, people on the net, everything. The fitter is the person (besides yourself) who has the most accurate knowledge about YOU (after the fit of course) but he/she still can't pick the bike for you...well...I guess they can...but shouldn't.
-Take those suggestions, and ride those bikes. Test them all out, see which one feels the best.
-Keep in mind, a very real part of buying a bike is buying what you like. Now, If you can't fit on a Prince, does that mean you should buy one anyways...no. But it's important you really like the bike you are spending a good chunk of change on.

There is no 100% right answer. Over time, the right bike for you (now) may not be the right bike for you (then). Maybe your riding style changes... maybe you get more comfortable riding aggressive... maybe you have body issues and need a more relaxed geometry. All we can do is make the most informed choice we can with the knowledge available to us.

Frames clearly differ some between makes even in same labeled size.  And those relative differences may not be the same for different sizes.  Trek Madone has a taller head tube than Spec Tarmac in 54cm frame (150 vs 145mm), but shorter in 58cm frame (190 vs 205mm).  Your best "fit" may even be a different labeled size in one brand vs another. 


Of course fit matters, but it's easy to over think this.  Your contact points on the bike are feet, hands, and seat.  Many combinations of frame, stem, seatpost, etc. will put you in the proper position, although getting radical (e.g. extra long/short stem/seatpost) trying to make a frame fit will change the bike's handling & ride.  And as was said your fit will likely change over months/years of riding so you might need adjustments (seat position, stem, etc.).  Still you may find that special bike that just feels 'right' to you, "speaks" to you as the Italians might say.  That's the start of a long enjoyable relationship




Edited by Oldteen 2010-10-31 1:10 PM

I like your analogy with the reflexology.

Can I suggest a homeopathic solution to your problem? In the same way that homeopathic medicines contain small amounts of what you are supposedly allergic to (small amouts, therefore cheap is where I'm headed with this...)

Get yourself an inexpensive, used, steel framed road bike & ride it for a season. Get fitter. Play with it's fit & adjust as needed. AS you gain fitness and road experience, you'll come to appreciate the "feel" of a $2000 bike before dropping some cash on it.

I'm being serious. Spend $300-500 or even less on something that has two wheels and work on fitness for 6 months or more before decidign what fancy expensive tri bike is going to be your best ride.

↑

Great advice for a lot of newer riders ... maybe not for OP, but still is great advice...

... in a year, your fit will be more relevant to your new level of fitness and flexibility, and you'll have a great buddy-bike. But make sure the beater bike you pick up fits too.

Nice post KG.

I keep seeing threads with advice like "When buying a new bike, the most important thing is fit."

I think this is a load of old cobblers.

What _does_ seem to make sense is:
1. Decide on the purpose for which you will use the bike (crystal ball optional)
2. Choose a style and geometry to suit your purpose/ preferences
3. Adjust bike as required

IOW, when I jump on a trainer in the back of the shop, I should be thinking about whether the overall position is aggressive or slack, where is my weight balanced, is the handling a bit twitchy and so on.

Then start thinking about fit specifics _after_ getting settled on a geometry.

why are you on a trainer in the back of the shop and not out riding the bike? If your shop won't let you take (a fairly extensive at that) test rides...
...your first problem is you need a new shop.

I think you may be trying to argue against something that nobody has ever claimed.  I have never heard anyone claim that one should not determine the type of riding or type of bike they are looking for before they start looking for a bike.

Bottom line, fit is important for any bike although it may be different between different types of bikes.  If someone has an ill fitting bike that is too small, you can address this with a longer seatpost, longer stem, positive rise stem or possible spacers.  However, all of this will come at the cost of handling as it will change the weight distribution and the steering axis of the bike.  On the other hand, if someone has a bike that is too big, there is little that can be done to make the bike fit.

Shane

You seem pretty determined to resist the advice given many times above that you should have some decent idea about which bikes fit you before you move from step 1 to step 2.  Why?

As many others have said or suggested, it is NOT possible to adjust a bike beyond certain limits.  Those limits are probably narrower than you seem to think, and as you push the envelope of adjustability, you are going to start spending some cash, and you will never be as well-fit to the bike as if you had purchased the right frame in the first place.

There are scads of bikes out there, and unless your proportions are very unusual, there are scads that will fit you.  Find out which ones those are, and then proceed to step 2.  You'll still have lots of choice.

You see? Just when I figured Kathy had settled the issue. There's a different opinion in the stable!

Can't we all just get along?

FWIW. I'm 6' even, with an inseam of 2'9.5" (85cm).
Buying a road bike for training rides, day trips and hopefully HIM (if I ever get the time to spare)

As I see it, the problem with trying to buy a first bike based on fit:
 1. fit is a complex issue. It's easy to get lost in the detail
 2. most shops will only let you ride on the trainer or maybe just around the block. Even the most unsuitable bike can be adjusted to "fit" well enough for a ride around the block
 3. I don't have an independent fitter to get advice from. So I'm relying on the skill/ good intentions of the LBS Sales staff
 4. getting a really good fit takes time. It's hard to walk out of the shop and spend money elsewhere after they've spent two hours of their time fiddling with your cleat adjustment