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Newb questions
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 2011-01-11 9:12 AM |
Veteran  118 |  Subject: Newb questionsI'm planning to do my first tri this summer (Muncie 70.3) unless I can find a sprint to get in on before that; I'm not trying to win or compete since it's my first one; Just wanna finish, so I can brag to my friends.  I've been running for a few years, so that's definitely my strong suit, and I have a couple questions about swim and bike that I was hoping for some insight on: Swimming: On a percentage basis, how much harder is an open water swim compared to swimming laps in a pool? I know from reading the threads that there is a lot more challenges in a open water tri swim compared to swimming laps by yourself in a pool. Just curious how much harder folks would estimate that it is. (BTW, my race is in a reservoir/lake area, so I'm not expecting to be battling any current, and hopefully not much choppy waves) Cycling: Okay, my general impression is that cycling in a race would be easier than your normal road training rides. Reason being, every time I have been out on the road in the past, I am having to put a lot of attention towards car traffic (making sure I am safe/stopping at stop lights/etc.) I feel like this has put a damper in my average speed. So, I am imagining in a race where the car traffic is blocked, and I could focus on the race and maintaining cadence and speed, I would probably have slightly better results speedwise. What is everyone's thoughts on this? Thanks in advance! I have already learned so much just by browsing the forums. You guys are really into the fun of the sport, but also the science of it! |
| 2011-01-11 9:36 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Member 53 | Subject: RE: Newb questions Not trying to be a jerk, but may I ask why you are starting with such a long race as your first triathlon? |
| 2011-01-11 9:54 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Elite 3140  | Subject: RE: Newb questions To put a percentage on swimming is difficult, but as you have learned there are many other variables but you should be able to do more than the race distance, and since you are new you should practice all other techniques if you run into unexpected problems ie panic, gulping and choking on water, goggles get dislodged, cold water temps etc, spotting......since you are reasonably accomplished in 2 of the disciplines I think a HIM for the summer is reasonable but I would definately get another race on the schedule either an olympic distance or sprint 2 or months before the HIM.........good luck |
| 2011-01-11 10:22 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Extreme Veteran 516  Chicago | Subject: RE: Newb questions Honestly, I don't see a big difference between the pool and ows that isn't choppy. I do end up a few seconds per 100 slower but I attribute it to my bad navigation skills. If anything you have to be aware of the water and how you are breathing as to not swallow a whole lot at once. |
| 2011-01-11 10:32 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Regular 157 | Subject: RE: Newb questions Are you in Indiana? There is a great sprint Tri in Carmel in April. It's really well run and I'd suggest at least doing that before your Muncie event. |
| 2011-01-11 10:37 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Newb questions I agree that swimming in OW is not harder, you are just going to be swimming longer since there's isn't a black line on the bottom and you're bound to either go slightly off course (or majorly off course) or drop your feet by sighting too much and incorrectly). One of the best things you can learn to do is sight quickly and efficiently without having your legs become a sea anchor. You'd be surprised how many races are not closed to traffic for the entire bike portion, though most intersections are usually manned to allow you to roll through (but you'd be foolish not to slow down and look anyway, imho... you just may not need to stop). Mostly, I think you're focusing on the wrong thing with your bike question. If you're expecting to perform in a race at a level you don't in training based on closed roads, you're going to be disappointed. Training right and proper race execution is the key to faster races. Good luck. I, for one, don't think a 70.3 is a bad "first race" distance... but would suggest you do a sprint or oly during your prep just to gain a little experience. Consider it a training day -- they experience will be very valuable. Logistics of transitions. Swimming in OW with lots of other people. What it feels like to run after you've gone too hard on the bike. Lot's of other goodies available. |
| 2011-01-11 10:55 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
| Veteran 136 | Subject: RE: Newb questions For me open water swimming is physically easier and mentally harder than pool swimming. I'm in the NW so all races are wetsuit legal. With a wetsuit you are nice and buoyant. I don't have to focus so much on correct body position or keeping my legs up as I do in the pool. They are in the right position. This makes swimming much, much easier for considerably less effort. Mentally, there is splashing, body contact, and the general anxiety that comes with an open water swim. This is easier each time I do a race, but was horribly challenging for me during my first few OWS tris. Biking I find easier outside the race situation simply because in a race there are many other bikers, some slower and some faster than you. Those slower you must find a way to safely pass without violating any rules and those faster you must avoid. Both can be unpredictable. Thus, I try to be a predictable and steady as possible. Best of luck. I would also echo the thought that for numerous reasons it would be ideal to find a sprint or any oly to do before a 1/2 IM. -k Edited by kellekl 2011-01-11 10:57 AM |
| 2011-01-11 11:27 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Extreme Veteran 356 Firestone, CO | Subject: RE: Newb questions a HIM for your first race is not a big deal. My first was a HIM with one open water swim prior to the race. I would suggest you try open water swimming prior to the race so you can learn to navigate and get use to the open water feel. The roads may not be closed for the bike, but they should have a wider bike lane with signs up to warn drivers. Just remember now you have to worry about other bikers... Follow the rules and you will be fine. |
| 2011-01-11 11:55 AM in reply to: #3292191 |
Veteran 118 | Subject: RE: Newb questions Fleck - 2011-01-11 10:36 AM Not trying to be a jerk, but may I ask why you are starting with such a long race as your first triathlon? No problem Fleck It's a legitimate question! I know it's not usually recommended, and I am looking for a smaller race close by to get some experience, but I also like a challenge, so hopefully it will work out. Not trying to beat anyone, just finish |
| 2011-01-11 11:58 AM in reply to: #3292126 |
Veteran 118 | Subject: RE: Newb questions Wow. Very thankful for all the responses! I'm going to try to address some of the concerns, and I will welcome any further insights. Regarding why I chose a HIM for my first... I would definitely be open to another race first, as I would love to get the experience and see how the transitions and TRI race environment works. I am in Jeffersonville, IN (right next to Louisville, KY - I've been to the LOU IM several years as a spectator). For some reason I thought that Carmel was farther away, but it's only a couple hours, so I am actually going to check into that. So I may see you up there, kirbde! I have trained up to be able to swim 2 miles in about 80-90 minutes. (This was 2 summers ago, and of course, in a lap lane) So far, I am back up to the 1.2 miles in swim training with 6 months left to train, so I feel pretty good about the distance, but I will definitely be seeking out some open swim options before the race, so I can work on the navigation. I know my biggest training need is going be on the bike. I have worked up to 25 mile rides (also 2 summers ago) and this year, I am up to about an hour on the spin bike. (weather has not permitted for any road work yet) So I know I am a long way from the 56 mile ride in the HIM. And then to have a half mary left after that does still seem daunting. But I never thought I would make it a full 26.2 marathon when I started training for that. So I am planning to build distance and do a good amount of brick work. The Muncie 70.3 website says that the roads are closed, so I'm hoping this will hold true for this year. Also, it says less than 200 feet of elevation gain across the whole course, so that should work in my favor. |
| 2011-01-11 12:24 PM in reply to: #3292575 |
Regular 501 Essex, England | Subject: RE: Newb questions I find OWS easier than pool swim because the wetsuit improves my position in the water and I settle into a nice rythmn which doesn't get interrupted by the end of the pool. Can't stress enough how important the bike is for HIM. You need to be spending a lot of time in the saddle and hitting race pace for your training rides and practising your nutrition ahead of race day. If you are strong on the bike you will do well in the run. If you have a weak bike it won't matter how good a runner you are, you will struggle to hit your expected time for the 13.1 miles. Agree with the above posters who advise at least a sprint and better an olympic distance race preferably with OWS ahead of the big race. Good luck |
| 2011-01-11 12:35 PM in reply to: #3292575 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: Newb questions bscoles1 - 2011-01-11 12:58 PM Wow. Very thankful for all the responses! I'm going to try to address some of the concerns, and I will welcome any further insights. Regarding why I chose a HIM for my first... I would definitely be open to another race first, as I would love to get the experience and see how the transitions and TRI race environment works. I am in Jeffersonville, IN (right next to Louisville, KY - I've been to the LOU IM several years as a spectator). For some reason I thought that Carmel was farther away, but it's only a couple hours, so I am actually going to check into that. So I may see you up there, kirbde! I have trained up to be able to swim 2 miles in about 80-90 minutes. (This was 2 summers ago, and of course, in a lap lane) So far, I am back up to the 1.2 miles in swim training with 6 months left to train, so I feel pretty good about the distance, but I will definitely be seeking out some open swim options before the race, so I can work on the navigation. I know my biggest training need is going be on the bike. I have worked up to 25 mile rides (also 2 summers ago) and this year, I am up to about an hour on the spin bike. (weather has not permitted for any road work yet) So I know I am a long way from the 56 mile ride in the HIM. And then to have a half mary left after that does still seem daunting. But I never thought I would make it a full 26.2 marathon when I started training for that. So I am planning to build distance and do a good amount of brick work. The Muncie 70.3 website says that the roads are closed, so I'm hoping this will hold true for this year. Also, it says less than 200 feet of elevation gain across the whole course, so that should work in my favor. Looks like you've pretty much got your act together on this one. Find yourself a good plan (the free one on this site is what I'll be using for my first one) and do it! Good luck! |
| 2011-01-11 12:43 PM in reply to: #3292126 |
New user 433 | Subject: RE: Newb questions It sounds like you should be fine the OWS fitness wise and just need to get through the mental side. For me, I was nervous my first OWS and then swam with a few guys for a .50 miler. Then I was nervous going further, worried about drowning, but I swam with the Tri club and did a 1.5 miler and could have did 2.5. It was 99% mental that I had to get over not physical. It helped having a safe boat near by or swim close to shore. You might just need to have someone follow you once on a kayak in OWS to get past this. For the Cycling side, it sounds like you are riding the wrong path or wrong time of day and need to find a spot that has a shoulder and less stop lights. I will drive sometimes 20 miles to place that is very open to bikers and no stop lights. You may end up with worst results in the race because if you are not focusing on key training elements (cadence, speed, power (if u got a PM), heart rate (if u got a hrt monitor), grade, gear your currently in, food/fluid, etc) then during the race you won't know what works and doesn't work for you on the course, might go too hard and mess up your running legs. Depends where you leave, traffic is something you just have deal with or plan around it. |
| 2011-01-11 12:43 PM in reply to: #3292126 |
Veteran 207 Charlotte, NC | Subject: RE: Newb questions I don't think a 70.3 is an ideal first race distance but it's definitely do-able. I've known 3-4 people who have done this and the biggest factor for them having a successful race is to respect the distances. Being a runner you've probably run a 1/2 mary before but it's very different after 3 hours on a bike. Also July in IN can get hot...think about that when you plan your training runs. The biggest difference in the swim is lack of direction. Practice open water swims and sighting especially. For the bike, none of the 70.3s I've done have had a closed course except for maybe the mile or two near transition. Like mentioned above, the major intersections are policed but be very careful around the ones that aren't. Have a great season and good luck |
| 2011-01-11 12:45 PM in reply to: #3292716 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Newb questions Just going to respond to one sentence/comment... Yes, the bike course is "easier" with the traffic control. But note, that this does NOT allow you to daydream and cruise... You should be just as aware as any training day. Maybe moreso? Other racers, people that MAY not follow the road closers? Pedestrians walking accross the street? Maybe even livestock!!!!! (A cow cross the race course in Utah)... Always be alert on the bike is what I'm trying to say. |
| 2011-01-11 12:58 PM in reply to: #3292126 |
| Subject: RE: Newb questions My pace for pool swims and OWS (in calm areas without waves/current) is usually about the same because I don't flip turn in the pool, and I take advantage of drafting in OW. None of my OWS allow wetsuits...so no benefit there...but I think I sight fairly well. |
| 2011-01-11 1:01 PM in reply to: #3292564 |
| Member 53 | Subject: RE: Newb questions bscoles1 - 2011-01-11 12:55 PM Fleck - 2011-01-11 10:36 AM Not trying to be a jerk, but may I ask why you are starting with such a long race as your first triathlon? No problem Fleck It's a legitimate question! I know it's not usually recommended, and I am looking for a smaller race close by to get some experience, but I also like a challenge, so hopefully it will work out. Not trying to beat anyone, just finish I am surprised by the many here who seem to think this OK. Sure it's OK in that you'll be able to do it. That's almost a given, but the better over-all approach would be to take a couple of years and build up to this. If you did that and you did that right - you would not be just trying to finish you would be beating a lot of people. |
| 2011-01-11 1:31 PM in reply to: #3292766 |
Expert 1110 Pitt Meadows, BC | Subject: RE: Newb questions Fleck - 2011-01-11 11:01 AM bscoles1 - 2011-01-11 12:55 PM Fleck - 2011-01-11 10:36 AM Not trying to be a jerk, but may I ask why you are starting with such a long race as your first triathlon? No problem Fleck It's a legitimate question! I know it's not usually recommended, and I am looking for a smaller race close by to get some experience, but I also like a challenge, so hopefully it will work out. Not trying to beat anyone, just finish I am surprised by the many here who seem to think this OK. Sure it's OK in that you'll be able to do it. That's almost a given, but the better over-all approach would be to take a couple of years and build up to this. If you did that and you did that right - you would not be just trying to finish you would be beating a lot of people. For the most part, I'd tend to agree that starting shorter and working your way up is better. There's certainly a lot to learn. Saying that, you won't be the only one who will do a 1/2 as your first. With regards to the training/racing/planning etc. If you have a running background, you want to prepare yourself to be able to run off the bike. This means that no matter how good of a runner you are, if you feel horrible after your ride, you won't be able to run well. I personally enjoy and do better at OWS's than pools, but that's just me. Check your local area to see if there are any swim races before the 70.3 - it's great way to get in some good swimming and practice the open water with other racers. Plus, I find OWS races a lot less violent than tris! |
| 2011-01-11 1:41 PM in reply to: #3292766 |
Veteran 118 | Subject: RE: Newb questions It seems like we have varying objectives, which is fine. Where I finish in the field is of little relevance to me compared to how I live up to my own expectations of myself. I have always viewed sports in general (whether it be running, golf, or otherwise) as a competition against myself. I am trying to do a little better than last time. When I go run a half-marathon, my goal is not to beat more people than last time, but rather to beat my own PR. I do concede that it is a good idea for me to experience a shorter distance race first, and I will really try to do that. But I also don't know if it's a better overall approach for me to spend a couple years building up to a HIM. If I do a HIM this summer, then do it again a little faster next summer, and then a little faster the next summer, it seems like the result would be the same as your proposal, but I would have been able to finish 3 HIM events, and have all that confidence from finishing three events, as well as the years of training I have all the respect in the world for those of you who are competing against the field and have a legit chance to win races/qualify for Kona, etc. But me, I will probably be one of those folks you will always be passing. Edited by bscoles1 2011-01-11 2:09 PM |
| 2011-01-11 1:46 PM in reply to: #3292726 |
Veteran 118 | Subject: RE: Newb questions I like the way you put this. I will keep this in mind! |
| 2011-01-11 1:49 PM in reply to: #3292716 |
Veteran 118 | Subject: RE: Newb questions chenny - 2011-01-11 1:43 PM For the Cycling side, it sounds like you are riding the wrong path or wrong time of day and need to find a spot that has a shoulder and less stop lights. I will drive sometimes 20 miles to place that is very open to bikers and no stop lights. You may end up with worst results in the race because if you are not focusing on key training elements (cadence, speed, power (if u got a PM), heart rate (if u got a hrt monitor), grade, gear your currently in, food/fluid, etc) then during the race you won't know what works and doesn't work for you on the course, might go too hard and mess up your running legs. Depends where you leave, traffic is something you just have deal with or plan around it. So, I definitely need to put that bike rack to use, and drive to my bike route. I guess I should also stop by the LBS and see if they recommend any good routes where traffic and stop lights is less of a concern, and there is wide roads. |
| 2011-01-11 1:56 PM in reply to: #3292886 |
Veteran 721 Naptown, IN | Subject: RE: Newb questions FWIW, there are Olympic distance (and other distance) tris in Muncie every month beginning in May. You might consider doing one of these races. The course will use part of the 70.3 course (swim is in same reservoir). So, you can kill two birds with one stone....get some triathlon experience and preview the course. |
| 2011-01-11 2:10 PM in reply to: #3292126 |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: Newb questions As someone mentioned earlier, go check out the races section. The first Muncie sprint/oly tri is May 14th. Maybe I'll see you there! |
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