Improving swimming efficiency

I can't answer your question, but I'm in the same boat as you. I can start and seem very efficient in the water, but the longer I swim the slower/less efficient I get and I can tell.

I really want to be a better swimmer. Curious, do you find that your pace drops off and then evens out, or does it continue to drop through the course of the trial?

I did a 700MM TT yesterday and my splits by 50m were as follows:

55 sec, 1:01, 1:01, 1:03, 1:04, 1:02, 1:03, 1:04, 1:03 1:03 1:01 1:02 1:04 57.

I seem to fall off in pace over the first 200M but then I even out.

Interested to hear what you hear about this.

I would think that some of the inefficiency/slowdown would have to do with core strength and body placement in the water.

I know that at the end of my longer swims, I often find that I don't feel like I am "gliding" in the water as much, even though my stroke count seems about the same.

I am no expert either but I would think this is a big part of it. If you see such a dramatic drop in efficiency something is wrong. A little ok but you seem to be losing a fair amount so you would need to look at your stroke, body position or strength. The last one can affect all 3. Try it again with the leg buoy thingy and see if it changes as this will help to keep you gliding. If efficiency stay constant then it might be core that you need to improve as during fatigue you let your body drop and therefore lose your aero water form. Something to start on anyways. Let us know how it turns out as I am curious to see what works for you

I have a similar situation with drop off due to fatigue. Like the other 3 sports - I attribute it to lack of endurance. 

The way I'm trying to fix it is to get more volume in (especially within the same workout time).  I've also been trying to adhere to my rest periods between sets.  It's amazing how fast 15 sec rest goes by...and then you let it linger to 20 or 30 secs. 

This a feedback cycle.

If you drag a rope in the water, it'll stay near the surface.  Slow down and the end starts to sink.

Same thing happens to your feet.  As your arms get tired, you lose momentum and your feet are more prone to dropping lower in the water.  Which causes more drag and makes you slower... you get the idea.  This is especially true for people trying to learn a 2-beat kick.

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That's almost exactly what I do.  I start out at around 45-50 seconds the first two or three 50's and then gradually drop a few seconds each fifty and then level out around 1:00 - 1:05 per fifty forever.  When I'm doing long swims I shoot to stay under 1:00 and just push it hard for 25m now and again to catch back up.

Very good point, I hadn't thought of my feet dropping slightly causing even more resistance. 

Don't mean to hijack the thread but it's along the same topic. 

What is a "normal" stroke count per 25m? When I'm concentrating on a minimal stroke count I can only get to 17, but most times it is up to 21.  My average 100m is around 1:45 ish.

That's a pretty decent stroke count... generally you want to be under 20.  Basically you should feel like you're gliding in the water, and taking the next stroke right before you slow down.  It varies based on height and other factors.

I'll continue to maintain that true "gliding" in the water is a horrible idea.  See above regarding what happens when you slow down.  The moment you stop producing forward propulsion, you begin to slow down.  Then you have to accelerate again to get back up to the speed you were moving at before.  A very inefficient approach to swimming.  Now, if by "gliding" you mean "stretching out your stroke" and "reaching forward as far as possible before starting your pull," that's one thing, but you really should not be using the word "gliding" to describe that.  As soon as your pulling arm finishes its stroke, it should break the water surface, and at the same time your other arm should have reached it maximum forward position and begin the pull.

Gliders do not produce forward propulsion of any kind.  They glide.  Gliding isn't going to get you anywhere fast, and it's going to take you more energy to move the same distance in the same speed if you glide, versus have a continuous force pushing you forward.

I guess it depends on what kind of imagery you're going for, it's always been described as gliding for me, and keeping that in mind has always helped me -- you should feel like you're not fighting the water - the sensation really should feel like a glide.  Obviously you're not taking a stroke, waiting until you stop and then taking another -- but that's also not likely going to happen for most swimmers.  Most people I've run into have the opposite problem, they're fighting the water, starting their next stroke before maximizing the utility of the previous stroke.

A drill I started doing when I got back into swimming this summer was the "catch up drill" - keep your non-pulling arm in front of you while the other arm takes a stroke and don't take the next stroke until the other arm catchs up -- wow, what a horrible description, I don't have a career as a swimming coach or author.  But basically the idea is to exaggerate maximizing the most distance out of each stroke.  This helped me a lot... also just trying to think about myself gliding through the water has helped a lot as well...

Anyway, I'm not a swim coach or even that great of a swimmer -- just what's been working for me.

I think we're on the same page here.  I've just seen a lot of newer swimmers eager for advice hear that they need to glide more, and take it to the extreme, which results in horribly inefficient swimming.

Good video on the subject that I would generally agree with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KILRRbCzwUE

What is happening to you is very common. Pretty much everyone experiences it. Same thing happens to me. If you are starting out efficient and losing it, then the problem isn't form (as much), it's strength/conditioning. You showed you have the form, you just can't maintain it. if you aren't swimming big volume then those little supporting muscles fall apart pretty quickly. So go the little muscles, so go the form. The solution is painful but obvious. Swim more to get stronger. Weights also help a ton (dare I say that on this site) as long as you are specific to those supporting muscles and not just hitting bench press and other vanity machines. As they get stronger they last longer, and you efficiency holds out for longer and longer distances. The other thing that is great to do (and is actually another thread out there now) is mix up the strokes. Want to work the delts in a hurry? try some fly. Want to get chest and biceps (along with gobs of legs muscles we don't use) swim some breast. you get the idea. the #1 fastest way for me to get in shape is IM (individual medley) sets. good luck!

Thanks TJ, that's exactly what I was looking for.

I am a huge fan of getting it right and then doing it a lot versus doing it a lot and then try to do it right.

(PS, I'm a closet ST guy, so I get the weights part.  Please don't tell)

Zombeh thread lives?  Stumbled on this thread searching for info on swim efficiency scores.

Serious question for tjfry (or anyone else in the know) - what specific weight exercises would you recommend to improve all those little muscles?

I'm looking at revamping my weights routine in the very near future from being something that was more for body building, and am looking to tailor it to being all core + things that purely benefit all those little neglected muscle groups that support SBR.  Obviously, just swimming more will help me, but if I can hit the weights twice a week to strengthen my core and also do a little work to help the swim, then so much the better!

That's a huge swing in times, definately a fitness issue.  As your fitness improves, you'll start to find that you will hit the wall within a couple seconds on each 100 (assuming same effort).

Its a fun number to track, and take a mental note of it and check the trend over long periods of time, ie. weeks and months.   It will come down if you do the volume.  In the short run, just swim swim swim.  Volume is your friend.