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2006-01-23 8:50 PM
in reply to: #330216

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
Renee -

If you get into Philosophy, you open the door into metaphysics, existentialism, nihilism, not just creationism. Are you ready to support the teachings of those (western) philosophies?



Yes, absolutely!!!

I think philosophy is one of the key tools in bridging the cultural divide we have in the US.

On the one had, and this is a gross generalization, we have a large population that believes solely in scientism, the notion that science holds primacy over other interpretations of life like those found in various spiritutal traditions.

On the other hand, again a gross generalization, we have a large population that believes solely in in fideism, the notion that our true nature can only be known by faith.

Philosophy can be the common language used by both sides.

It may be able to satisfy those holding to the primacy of scientism, because it requires reason. There are no leaps of faith necessary. The arguements are based on reason and logic.

For those holding to fideism, particularly Christians, it puts flesh on the bones of the meaning of Christ. Indeed the Gospel of John starts out with a deep understanding of the Prime Mover, or the Being, that is called the Word in the Gospel. It had been discovered by the Greek philosophers, and it turns out, it is the same entity as the One True God revealed to Abraham: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. and John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

So, philosophy is not a threat to Christianity, but a very fundamental tool in understanding God's revelation that is perfected in Christ.


So yes, all the philosophies should be taught. I am not intimidated by any idea, nor would I advocate that only certain philosophies be taught. It's important to look at these ideas from all sides. And it's the act of doing philosophy that is the most important. It should be a basic study for anyone claiming to be educated. It is a critical skill to have.

So maybe all of the religious, ethical, moral, political, and gastronomic discussions that go on here in COJ, should start first with a reflection on this philosophical question:

Which is true?

Cogito, ergo sum - I think, therefore I am
or
Cogitor, ergo sum - I am thought, therefore I am

Either that or:
Do you want salsa verde or pico de gallo with that burrito? ;)

Edited by dontracy 2006-01-23 9:06 PM


2006-01-24 8:56 AM
in reply to: #328169

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Expert
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Mt. Morris, IL
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design

I know it is long but if this topic intrests you please read and give me some feedback! 

Okay so I have followed this thread and now I have a question for you strongly opinionated out there.  I teach high school science in small conservative community where I have had parents tell me that I can not teach evolution to their children.  I have no problem teaching evolution to them and I do present the information as our textbook outlines it (I believe it to be conservative as far as evolution theory goes).  Now here is my question; every year I have several students who bring up intelligent design and it leads to great discussions with my students, is it wrong from me to present information on Intelligent design in order to correct misunderstandings and involve less informed students in the discussion.  I present it as a theory created by scientist (The Discovery Center is full of them) but we then discuss why it cannot be considered science (they do not present a testable hypothesis).  I love this topic because it creates a lot of debate in my classes and causes students to evaluate their beliefs and arguments.  As a science teacher and Christian (Methodist) I have no problem presenting both.  This leads me to my second point/question, should teachers stick to curriculum or be allowed use teachable moments to foster critical thinking.  I don't teach an ethics class, but when we cover Genetics we do an entire unit on ethical science and struggles of law makers and society.  Do I need to leave this out just because it is not science? 

2006-01-24 9:12 AM
in reply to: #330532

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design

See...I think in that context...where a student asks a question, it's fine. Discouraging discussion is never a good idea, in my opinion. It sounds like the way you handle it is very appropriate...putting ID in the context of science and relating how therefore it's not really appropriate to discuss it in a scientific setting.

Let the kids ask the questions about ID, but don't put it in the curriculum.

2006-01-24 12:01 PM
in reply to: #330320

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
dontracy - 2006-01-23 8:50 PM
Renee -

If you get into Philosophy, you open the door into metaphysics, existentialism, nihilism, not just creationism. Are you ready to support the teachings of those (western) philosophies?



So yes, all the philosophies should be taught. I am not intimidated by any idea, nor would I advocate that only certain philosophies be taught. It's important to look at these ideas from all sides. And it's the act of doing philosophy that is the most important. It should be a basic study for anyone claiming to be educated. It is a critical skill to have.

Don,

I'm thinking of all the ignorant parents who insist that teaching Evolution teaches that there is no god. These same parents - when they find that the Philosophy class teaches a POV that clearly states there is no god - do you think they will be as liberally minded as you are?  Do you really think a Philosophy class would fly with these parents?

2006-01-24 12:24 PM
in reply to: #330701

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
Renee -

I'm thinking of all the ignorant parents who insist that teaching Evolution teaches that there is no god. These same parents - when they find that the Philosophy class teaches a POV that clearly states there is no god - do you think they will be as liberally minded as you are? Do you really think a Philosophy class would fly with these parents?



Wow, I just have to take a moment and soak in the fact that I was actually called liberally minded.  Thank you!  That hasn't happened in a long while.

Hey, you know, there are wishes and there is reality.  You just keep doing what you can do to move things along. 

By the way, I wanted to mention in my previous post how grateful I am for the quality of discourse on BT.  I'm sure you know of other sites that specifically say that the subjects of politics and religion will not be allowed.  With BT, I can't imagine it without politics and religion, as well as burritos, hair, bicycle pumps and all of the other stuff that makes this such a great place.

2006-01-24 12:49 PM
in reply to: #330717

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
Come on out of the closet, Don. You know you wanna.


2006-01-24 1:00 PM
in reply to: #330532

Subject: ...
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2006-01-24 3:21 PM
in reply to: #330740

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
Renee - Come on out of the closet, Don. You know you wanna.


As they say, I didn't leave liberalism. Liberalism left me. (It got coopted by that dang me generation)

Here's two photos of my favorite classical liberal.


Edited by dontracy 2006-01-24 3:23 PM




(pope_dove.jpg)



(jpiiski.jpg)



Attachments
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pope_dove.jpg (16KB - 8 downloads)
jpiiski.jpg (27KB - 8 downloads)
2006-02-01 2:20 PM
in reply to: #328169

Elite
3972
200010005001001001001002525
Reno
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design

A retired catholic science teacher told me he views all of these polls that say that majority of americans do "not believe in evolution" as an indication of the failure of his career. 

Until recently, I don't think I ever crossed paths with "creationists."  As I do not have children, I haven't thought too much about the debate about what to teach, and figured that those debates only took place in churchy places.   Now, I guess I live in one.

I was just told by a lady I know that "anyone who believes in evolution or the big bang or any of that is just insane.  you might have came from monkeys but I didn't."   As her entire family makes its living from the mining industry and therefore on the backs of geologic study, I found this nearly offensive.  I just told her that faith and science are different things.  She went on to talk about god took "un-ordered matter" to form the earth a couple thousand years ago, and that she believes that dinasaurs walked, just not on earth, because they are not noted in the bible.  

I was flabergasted.

2006-02-01 4:55 PM
in reply to: #336591

Elite
2458
20001001001001002525
Livingston, MT
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
bootygirl - 2006-02-01 11:20 AM

and that she believes that dinasaurs walked, just not on earth, because they are not noted in the bible.



bahahahaha. I'm going to be laughing AT this lady for months to come. Thanks for the entertainment. bahahahahah
2006-02-01 6:38 PM
in reply to: #328169

Elite
3972
200010005001001001001002525
Reno
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design
I have think that people of her faith must make excellent science fiction writers.


2006-02-01 6:38 PM
in reply to: #328169

Elite
3972
200010005001001001001002525
Reno
Subject: RE: Vatican chimes in on Intelligent Design

I have think that people of her faith must make excellent science fiction writers.

Oops - double post...  



Edited by bootygirl 2006-02-01 6:39 PM
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