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2012-02-20 4:22 PM
in reply to: #4055273

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Subject: RE: Creatine

Anyone considering creatine supplementation must understand that Creatine supplementation is driven by the the energy system it plays a roll in.(Phosphocreatine system) For short, typically less than 30 sec bursts on intensity that is not dependent on oxygen nor is there enough o2 present for such a high intensity exercise.  The Phosphate is cleaved from the phosphocreatine allowing it to "join" witht the ADP to form ATP...and so on and so forth....so taking this has been shown in some studies to help in short duration activities it will not help directly in endurance events. This is completely different than aerobic glycolysis.  I guess you can think that if your gym training/or sprint training improves  it will indirectly help your conditioning, but in the sports med field it is not emphasized to endurance athletes period...If you chose to take it for about a week take 20-30g /day and then 2-5 g a day after that.

In regards to the carbo loading debate...There is a lot of research regarding Carbohydrate supercompensation increasing muscle glycogen levels.  But the difficult thing is around a week before the activity you need to deplete your CHO stores wit diet restriction and exercise , than begin loading. 

good luck

Regarding thirst, this has been debated here before, but that also is well documented that your thirst receptors may not be activated untill you are already close to 2% drop in body weight, therefore if you wait till you are thirsty you have waited too long.. Does not mean you cannot make it up but you need to be on a hydration plan.

Good luck

 

btw: regarding hyperhydration strategies: I would be open to read any contrary evidence but everything I read says it does not work......it goes against the feedback loop in physiology that when we have increased volume our hormones vasopressin and aldosterone are suppressed therefore we pass more water and visa versa.......so yes you can drink yourself to death (hyponatremia) but our body will try damn hard to keep you from doing it.



Edited by FELTGood 2012-02-20 4:42 PM


2012-02-20 4:42 PM
in reply to: #4056820

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Subject: RE: Creatine
tjfry - 2012-02-20 11:30 AM

Hyper hydration isn't new. A number of pros/elites in various sports do this in some form or fashion. I try and do it before any of my hot races, although sometimes I fall short with travel/kids etc getting me off schedul. While you do gain some weight from fluid, it more than compensates for itself since the fluid in sitting in the muscles ready to be used versus in your throat/stomach/intestines waiting to get processed. (Glycerol was a big product a few years back for this very reason. It helped the body retain water. I don't remember if they banned it or not, but I want to say it got classified as a performance enhancer for this reason. ) In conditions like Kona, staying hydrated is one of the biggest factors for anyone on the course, and for someone like macca, it's the difference between winning and not. And weight on the run is of little consequence there too as a net loss in water starts right way, so by the run most have lost weight.

The creatine angle has been along for a long time as well. Usually for what we do it just ends up with cramping of some sort. creatine is part of the immediate energy that is stored right in the muscle. For those who are about to bust out their biology books, ATP-CP is Adenosine Tri Phosphate - Creatine Phosphate. It's the energy system that lasts for about 5 seconds or so, used for explosive or emergency energy. (Throwing a punch, sprinting out of a burning building or exploding on benchpress). Your body doesn't have time to break down sugar through glycolysis and get it to the muscle in time, so this is immediate energy. In our zone 1/2/3 exercise it's pretty much never used or trained for. It helps grow muscle size, but its the wrong kind of muscle so it's not useful for what we do. That's more of a Usain Bolt type of energy system.

Would I recommend a prerace hydration strategy? Heck yes. Would I use creatine? nope.

my 2 cents

 tj - would you mind sharing your pre-race hyper hydration strategy? I am curious to hear and perhaps implement in preparation for my A races. thanks

2012-02-20 7:32 PM
in reply to: #4055273

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Subject: RE: Creatine

This is an older review article but pretty thorough

There is another study done in triatheletes and a couple more done in distance runners that show creatine resulted in no effect to slightly slower times. There is also one published that used wattage on a TT to show it had no effect.

It has a measurable positive effect on short-burst high activities, and causes weight gain. So maybe good for weight lifters, sprinters, etc. but not endurance athletes.



Edited by BrianRunsPhilly 2012-02-20 7:33 PM
2012-02-21 9:45 AM
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2012-02-21 12:12 PM
in reply to: #4055273

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Subject: RE: Creatine
As a general rule creatine is not of much use for endurance activities.  If you were bodybuilding or trying to increase mass I would tell you this is a "top 3" supplement, but I gave up creatine the moment I switched from bodybuilding to triathlon (and because of the weight issue).
2012-02-21 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Creatine
tkd.teacher - 2012-02-20 12:34 PM
Sharyn5 - 2012-02-20 8:56 AM
briderdt - 2012-02-20 11:29 AM

Sharyn5 - 2012-02-19 2:06 PM While it causes water retention in the muscles, it has the potential to cause dehydration. I take jack3d on occasion as a preworkout stim, and that has creatine. I sometimes get bloated from the water retention, so it's not a product I steadily take. Interesting thoughts though on this.

The creatine in there isn't doing jack for you. As stated elsewhere in the thread, you have to load and then keep on a maintenance dose.

you're so punny.

i don't disagree, but it is enough to cause bloating at times. i don't take it often.

 

I guess being on the WADA banned list doesn't dissuade you either?John

Now a day everything thing is on WADA list, even steaks...



2012-02-21 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Creatine
FELTGood - 2012-02-20 4:22 PM

Regarding thirst, this has been debated here before, but that also is well documented that your thirst receptors may not be activated untill you are already close to 2% drop in body weight, therefore if you wait till you are thirsty you have waited too long.. Does not mean you cannot make it up but you need to be on a hydration plan.

Good luck

 

btw: regarding hyperhydration strategies: I would be open to read any contrary evidence but everything I read says it does not work......it goes against the feedback loop in physiology that when we have increased volume our hormones vasopressin and aldosterone are suppressed therefore we pass more water and visa versa.......so yes you can drink yourself to death (hyponatremia) but our body will try damn hard to keep you from doing it.

Here are a couple of links referencing more or less what I do. One is just an article and the other is an actual study.(The absorbtion % of fluid is of note in the article, as it's commonly suggested you need to drink the same volume you lose in sweat, when the reality you should be drinking 110% or more to replace.)

http://www.active.com/nutrition/Articles/Boost_your_training_with_hyperhydration.htm

http://www.sportsnutritionworkshop.com/Files/35.SPNT.pdf

There's lots of info out there regarding the use of glycerol if you just google hyper hydration. I personally have never used it so I can't comment.

I would agree that your body is pretty good at balancing things out, and while not exercising it's pretty difficult to go hyponatremic by just drinking water. Once you are exercising though that game changes and it's a bit more of a risk.

Having said that, you can still get your body to hold more fluids. bloated is a term that comes up. My personal weight can swing as much as 6 pounds or more, not counting when I dehydrated from a long run or something.

My personal strategy is pretty simple. I drink sport drink or water (alternating) starting 2 days out and sip them non stop until race start. I will always have a bottle in my hand. With this I eat relatively easy/bland food that has a decent amount of sodium and protein in it.  The added sodium, etc helps me to take on water weight so that I'll be a little heavy when the gun goes off. This is more closely followed when it's hot like Kona, because just walking around to get your packet, etc you are sweating quite a bit, so staying on top of and getting ahead of hydration is really really hard. I will dedicate some time to lay down in the hotel room where it's cool and just drink. Then back out for a short ride or lunch or whatever, then back to drink.

2012-02-21 1:17 PM
in reply to: #4055273

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Subject: RE: Creatine
carb loading doesn't work except in extreme endurance races where you're well below VO2max because your body will preferentially burn protein including your muscle at higher than VO2max.
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