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2012-04-23 12:27 PM
in reply to: #4167209

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
lisac957 - 2012-04-23 11:18 AM
KathyG - 2012-04-23 11:06 AM

For those of you who it took time to learn to ride in aero, did learning how to descend fast and taking fast corners take some time to learn as well?  I ask because some riders seem to have a longer learning curve on some skill and techniques involved with riding. I wonder if riding in aerobars fits into that skill learning like descending or taking corners fast.

Yes for me.
I had never ridden a bike outside of being 10 years old (and even riding then was rare) before getting into triathlons in my late 20s. Definite learning curve for me, in ALL aspects of riding a bike.

I admit I am sensitive to threads like this because of my background. It feels a little like those who aren't comfortable are being made fun of (OMG why don't you do this when it is clearly a time savings? Who does triathlons on a tri bike and doesn't do this?? WHY WHY WHY!? Not fun to read). I realize that's more on me than anyone else, but reading the replies I'm clearly not the only one who has reacted that way.

 

I think it is helpful to have the perspective of people who haven't been doing this so much. I've never gone long without riding in my life, so it's going to be different for someone new or less experienced. And when I do remember what it was like learning something, there is likely a different perspective coming into it as a little kid versus as an adult. I try to take the frame of mind of the other person into account, but can't always do it.

For me, getting used to aero was a rather natural progression and I was very familiar with riding already. Handling in the 30's was fine within a couple rides. And this was on a twitchy road bike with clip-ons. The tri bike was much more stable and took 10-15 minutes to become familiar with.

Also know that being in aero on the descents is not always fastest. I've run away from people with my hands on the hoods (or base bar) because I can drop my body even farther. I can also push more because brake access is that much faster.



2012-04-23 12:31 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
the bear - 2012-04-23 7:30 AM

Officiated a race yesterday with significant winds, and I was amazed by the number of age groupers who had aerobars but rode in an upright position. Why do you have them if you're not going to race on them?


The other weekend we rode the IMTX course... 56 miles of tailwind... then 56 miles of headwind.

We passed a girl who was going into the headwind sitting up, and she had a nice TT Cervelo. I yelled back, "You should get into aero, you will be faster than me!" Mind you, I "flew" by her going 12 mph. Yeah. So then my friend asked her why she wasn't in aero, and she said she didn't like it. Then why the heck do you have a TT bike?

I don't like areo either... so my tri bike is permanently attached to my trainer... and I ride my road bike outdoors 100% of the time. That girl needed a road bike!

2012-04-23 1:23 PM
in reply to: #4166514


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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
  1. I only bought the bike to look cool. 
  2. They act as a better coat rack then the treadmill.
  3. People would look at me funny if I was admiring my guns (biceps) during a race.
  4. I thought they were for putting a book on to read while on the trainer.
  5. The person who has the most toys wins. 
2012-04-23 1:46 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

Raced (well what I call race) NOLA yesterday and 90% of the time on the aero's the rest was sitting and spinning up the couple of bridges and then descending.  Not sure if it was the winds combined with the wheel cover but the bike was very twitchy going down the bridges.  I prefer to live and ride off the aero's for those downhills.  Now last year in Austin I was bombing the downhills in aero.  Same for NOLA last year so really have to figure out why this year was different.

2012-04-23 2:49 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
IF its really windy, I feel I have more control in the drops and quicker access to the brakes, and I dont' loose much arrow being in the drops vs on the aero bars at least with my fit maybe a few degrees. My  bike setup also is with a long 58cm top tube & a short stem 60MM and wide 50cm bars so the steering tends very quick and responsive,  I do use the aerobars quite a bit but mostly on straight flat streches as it can  get a little touchy steering from the center if you are not careful.

Edited by RRH_88 2012-04-23 3:15 PM
2012-04-23 4:01 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

People are pretty worried about what other people spend their money on...

Seems like people cannot come to terms with the fact that...for some people on this forum...dropping $2,000-$5,000 or more on a bike really just is not a big deal in terms of their earning capacity. Not saying I fit into this category, but generally, its no secret that age group triathletes earn really well.



2012-04-23 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4167199

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Master
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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

tri808 -

 
My thought is that most people don't practice it enough, don't have a good fit, or are just not confident enough to do so.

 

Tom Demerly. -

 
I think there are two presiding reasons:

1. Poor bike fit.

2. Lack of familiarity with riding in the aero position.

Well, I bet most people find it uncomfortable to start. I know I did. But I started on my hybrid with aero bars added, so I was almost there right from the start with my tri-bike.

It takes practice, which means miles and miles ridden WHILE staying aero. I know sometimes I can hold it for miles, and sometimes only for minutes, depending on how tired/sore I am and how much climbing is involved.

I definitely think a lot of people buy something that is 'the standard' and then don't have the discipline or proper encouragement to USE it the way it was intended. Plenty of people enter races that aren't as prepared as they should be.  I'm going into my third season and I STILL fit that profile myself, as far as actually training for the run anyway...

Question why they waste their money or efforts, and then pass them when you race them.  People have plenty of reasons for doing things differently. Try not to get hung up on the ones that don't affect you.

2012-04-23 4:20 PM
in reply to: #4167353

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
ChrisM - 2012-04-23 1:05 PM

scaring the sh** out of myself doesn't add any enjoyment to the race

We're all different.  One of the reasons I love to ride this route

is that I get to do this

During the hairier parts of the descent, I do sit up enough to get my hands on the brakes.  (I can actually do the descent faster on my road bike than I can on my tri bike.)

2012-04-23 7:46 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

I don't know if this makes sense, but if a TT bike is poorly fited, or if they are on a roadie with clipons, would they be able to generate more power from the sitting up position?  Maybe that's why when riding into a headwind they are sitting up (to get more power) rather than in aero (to be more aerodynamic)...??  just a thought - I have no idea if there's any substance behind it...

2012-04-23 7:47 PM
in reply to: #4168101

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Experior - 2012-04-23 5:20 PM
ChrisM - 2012-04-23 1:05 PM

scaring the sh** out of myself doesn't add any enjoyment to the race

We're all different.  One of the reasons I love to ride this route

is that I get to do this

During the hairier parts of the descent, I do sit up enough to get my hands on the brakes.  (I can actually do the descent faster on my road bike than I can on my tri bike.)

That's a pucker ride! That would scare the crap out of me, and with the hills around here I frequently hit the low-to-mid 40's in aero.
2012-04-23 8:24 PM
in reply to: #4168101

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Experior - 2012-04-23 11:20 AM
ChrisM - 2012-04-23 1:05 PM

scaring the sh** out of myself doesn't add any enjoyment to the race

We're all different.  One of the reasons I love to ride this route

is that I get to do this

During the hairier parts of the descent, I do sit up enough to get my hands on the brakes.  (I can actually do the descent faster on my road bike than I can on my tri bike.)

I'm assuming there aren't many turns to negotiate?

What's the difference in the time it takes to climb vs. the time it takes to descend?

I've hit 48 on a road that has a few bends, but you don't need to brake.  I was sh'n my pants.  I was on my road bike as well.  I can tuck much lower, and have easeir access to the brakes.  No way I would go 56 on my aero bars.  I'll gladly wear panties under my bike shorts before I do that. 



2012-04-23 9:35 PM
in reply to: #4168556

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
tri808 - 2012-04-23 9:24 PM 

I'm assuming there aren't many turns to negotiate?

What's the difference in the time it takes to climb vs. the time it takes to descend?

I've hit 48 on a road that has a few bends, but you don't need to brake.  I was sh'n my pants.  I was on my road bike as well.  I can tuck much lower, and have easeir access to the brakes.  No way I would go 56 on my aero bars.  I'll gladly wear panties under my bike shorts before I do that. 

Actually there are quite a few turns, but there are a few sections of 1/2 mile or so where you can get up quite a bit of speed before having to brake.  6-8% doesn't sound like a lot (and for shorter distances the grade is higher), but it's enough to grab quite a bit of speed.  That picture was from a couple of years ago (IIRC) after one of my first few times on the route, and I've hit 60+ since then, but that does require (for me, at least) the road bike not the tri bike and braking very very quickly to get around a couple of turns.  Fun times.  It's what I do now instead of self-destructive behavior.

2012-04-23 10:08 PM
in reply to: #4167177

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
KathyG - 2012-04-23 11:06 AM

I agree with others who have posted the 2 big reasons folks don't use their aerobars are fit and being used to using them and thus comfortable.

I do agree for some skill comes with practice. If you don't feel confident in riding in aerobars don't do it in a race for safety reasons.

After I bought my first tri bike I went on a ride which at the time was longest ride as an adult with a bunch of BTers. I rode in aero more than any of the others. I was comfortable on them from when I picked up the bike and had it fit to me.

I know my husband doesn't like using them but he had a brain tumor and one of his balance nerves is gone which makes balance challenging....so for him their is a physical reason.

I wonder to when racing why others especially in longer races like IM sit up and don't use their aerobars more.

On trainer I don't use them much but outside I do ride in them 90-95% of the time and almost the whole time in a race.

For those of you who it took time to learn to ride in aero, did learning how to descend fast and taking fast corners take some time to learn as well?  I ask because some riders seem to have a longer learning curve on some skill and techniques involved with riding. I wonder if riding in aerobars fits into that skill learning like descending or taking corners fast.

Kathy I want to address the last portion of your post.

I am comfortable in aero assuming reasonable conditions. Winds of 20 mph or greater with gusts will cause me to pop out of aero on my tri bike.

The first aerobars I bought were for my road bike and I had only had the bike for one month. Took one ride in the bars to figure it out then raced with them 1 week later. I was more comfortable in the aero position.

I am still not comfortable descending fast or taking fast corners though. I just did a race yesterday and the course was a rectangle - 8 turns. I hit the brakes on every turn. It is like a reflex. I have fallen (always in the gravel) taking corners and I don't trust myself.

 

2012-04-23 10:14 PM
in reply to: #4167389

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
KathyG - 2012-04-23 12:21 PM
lisac957 - 2012-04-23 12:18 PM
KathyG - 2012-04-23 11:06 AM

For those of you who it took time to learn to ride in aero, did learning how to descend fast and taking fast corners take some time to learn as well?  I ask because some riders seem to have a longer learning curve on some skill and techniques involved with riding. I wonder if riding in aerobars fits into that skill learning like descending or taking corners fast.

Yes for me.
I had never ridden a bike outside of being 10 years old (and even riding then was rare) before getting into triathlons in my late 20s. Definite learning curve for me, in ALL aspects of riding a bike.

I admit I am sensitive to threads like this because of my background. It feels a little like those who aren't comfortable are being made fun of (OMG why don't you do this when it is clearly a time savings? Who does triathlons on a tri bike and doesn't do this?? WHY WHY WHY!? Not fun to read). I realize that's more on me than anyone else, but reading the replies I'm clearly not the only one who has reacted that way.

  

Totally makes sense....2 of my kids struggle with bike handling skills. I for one am not making fun of anyone. Just trying to understand the whys and maybe offer some suggestions to help.

You've done what 2 IMs don't be sensitive, you are a stud no doubt about it.

Agree, and want to add if you have suggestions Kathy I'll take them. I like learning new things, I have a safe area I can ride and practice but my instincts to protect myself from myself are always the same!

2012-04-23 10:26 PM
in reply to: #4168737

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

trigal38 - 2012-04-23 11:14 PM Agree, and want to add if you have suggestions Kathy I'll take them. I like learning new things, I have a safe area I can ride and practice but my instincts to protect myself from myself are always the same!

Your points are really important (and make me regret posting pics of silly high speeds).   I'm not Kathy, obviously, but my suggestion would be to just practice bike handling skills.  This does NOT have to be done at high speeds.  In fact, learning control at very LOW speeds is probably far more important.  Bikes are actually much less stable at very low speeds than they are at high speeds, so learning to control them at very low speeds is a great (and relatively safe) way to get comfortable about cycling at higher speeds.

Here are a couple of links that present ideas and drills that I think are quite useful (I did these sort of things when I started cycling as an adult and found them to help a lot):

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Bike-Handling-Clinic_-Drill-that-Skill.htm

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Learn_to_ride_faster_and_safer_with_bike-handling_drills.htm

2012-04-23 11:06 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Anyone who doesn't like using their TT bike can trade with me for my road bike.


2012-04-23 11:30 PM
in reply to: #4167389

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Roswell, Georgia
Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
KathyG - 2012-04-23 12:21 PM
lisac957 - 2012-04-23 12:18 PM
KathyG - 2012-04-23 11:06 AM

For those of you who it took time to learn to ride in aero, did learning how to descend fast and taking fast corners take some time to learn as well?  I ask because some riders seem to have a longer learning curve on some skill and techniques involved with riding. I wonder if riding in aerobars fits into that skill learning like descending or taking corners fast.

Yes for me.
I had never ridden a bike outside of being 10 years old (and even riding then was rare) before getting into triathlons in my late 20s. Definite learning curve for me, in ALL aspects of riding a bike.

I admit I am sensitive to threads like this because of my background. It feels a little like those who aren't comfortable are being made fun of (OMG why don't you do this when it is clearly a time savings? Who does triathlons on a tri bike and doesn't do this?? WHY WHY WHY!? Not fun to read). I realize that's more on me than anyone else, but reading the replies I'm clearly not the only one who has reacted that way.

  

Totally makes sense....2 of my kids struggle with bike handling skills. I for one am not making fun of anyone. Just trying to understand the whys and maybe offer some suggestions to help.

You've done what 2 IMs don't be sensitive, you are a stud no doubt about it.

Wanted to say thanks for saying this
Regardless of my IM experience, I still struggle occasionally with comfort in aero due to my limited cycling background, and am sympathetic to others with these issues. It does not come natural to me. I still can't stay in aero crossing railroad tracks, on that curve on 77th street, on the hills of the Kansas 70.3 course (or IMMOO or IMLOU). 

I've come a long ways, but there's still progress to make. Onward!

2012-04-23 11:32 PM
in reply to: #4166514

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!

no idea what an aerobar is.  Remind me to show you my front mounted water bottle holder.  its great.

2012-04-24 7:46 AM
in reply to: #4168745

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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Experior - 2012-04-23 10:26 PM

trigal38 - 2012-04-23 11:14 PM Agree, and want to add if you have suggestions Kathy I'll take them. I like learning new things, I have a safe area I can ride and practice but my instincts to protect myself from myself are always the same!

Your points are really important (and make me regret posting pics of silly high speeds).   I'm not Kathy, obviously, but my suggestion would be to just practice bike handling skills.  This does NOT have to be done at high speeds.  In fact, learning control at very LOW speeds is probably far more important.  Bikes are actually much less stable at very low speeds than they are at high speeds, so learning to control them at very low speeds is a great (and relatively safe) way to get comfortable about cycling at higher speeds.

Here are a couple of links that present ideas and drills that I think are quite useful (I did these sort of things when I started cycling as an adult and found them to help a lot):

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Bike-Handling-Clinic_-Drill-that-Skill.htm

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Learn_to_ride_faster_and_safer_with_bike-handling_drills.htm

Thanks for this! I will check it out.

2018-06-25 12:29 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Subject: ...
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2018-06-25 2:00 PM
in reply to: the bear


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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Ooooohh....ooohh....me....me...me.

A question I can contribute a knowledgeable answer.
As I am an age grouper, who once raced in rather high gusty winds....Louisville 2017.
32 mph pretty consistent with gusts recorded up in the mid 40s.

Fortunately, some of my later training rides were in strong winds.....which I don't like.

I'm terribly comfortable on aero bars. More so than on my road bike. Mainly because of my spare tire around my gut. So much more comfortable for my lower back than a road bike.

Headwinds....for sure. I'm on those bars. But, I come off in some cases. Down steep hills. I'm risk averse. Not a speed demon. I know in theory you should be more stable with a lower center of gravity. But....my breaks aren't on the aero bars and I have zero problems riding breaks. Moving back and forth between the bars is twitchy for me. So...I'll use my body as a sail and ride the breaks if need be. Control I give up in lowered centered of gravity is far more made up by speed reduction and speed control.

Which sucked for the second loop of Louisville when you wanna fly down the hill, to get as much boost going up the one that inevitably follows on that course. And for a chunk of that up/down bit, it was full on broadside crosswind. I came off the aero bars quite a bit to insure my safety (and everyone elses' around me) again, trading center of gravity for speed reduction. Going up or flat...back on them.

And for that last bit, when you make the turn on the second loop and the sign reads "Louisville, 33 miles"....it was 33 miles right into the teeth of the headwind. You couldn't have paid me to come off them.

Crosswinds....not a fan. Headwinds are just what they are. Tailwinds are always nice.


2018-06-25 2:37 PM
in reply to: jhaack39


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Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Sorry all.
I just responded to a spambumped post.
At least the other bumped post I responded to was a legit bump.

I will be more vigilant.
2018-06-25 3:41 PM
in reply to: #4166514


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25
Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
I use them 99% of the time unless cornering or descending with curves! I’m glad other people don’t, (I notice a lot too) because then I beat them on aero discipline alone.
2018-06-26 10:35 AM
in reply to: edscoville

Veteran
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Elmira, ON
Subject: RE: Why don't you use your aerobars!
Originally posted by edscoville

  1. I only bought the bike to look cool. 
  2. They act as a better coat rack then the treadmill.
  3. People would look at me funny if I was admiring my guns (biceps) during a race.
  4. I thought they were for putting a book on to read while on the trainer.
  5. The person who has the most toys wins. 



If you ever run for public office. you have my vote.
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