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2013-03-25 6:09 AM
in reply to: #4672890

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Subject: RE: Pop Quiz - Why we (the US) are to blame for 9/11
Left Brain - 2013-03-25 1:23 AM
KateTri1 - 2013-03-24 11:29 PM
Left Brain - 2013-03-24 11:25 PM
trinnas - 2013-03-24 6:04 AM
UrsusAdiposimus - 2013-03-23 10:16 PM
scorpio516 - 2013-03-23 7:46 PM

UrsusAdiposimus - 2013-03-23 10:04 AM

Many historians believe the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because they believed the U.S. was preparing to enter WWII anyway in the near-term and made a strategic calculation to strike us pre-emptively. I don't see how that dishonors the people who died on that day.

I don't know any historians who don't believe that

However, you could also say that WWII in the Pacific only started because US Commodore Perry forced open Japan in 1853-54.


(The US's forcible opening of Japan toppled the Tokugawa shogunate through the Meiji Restoration/Revolution, which ended 150 years of peace and restored the emperor to head of state.  The forcible trade we did westernized the country, and the islands did not have the natural resources to support this.  Korea was annexed in 1895.  Parts of Siberia in 1905.  Manchuria in 1931.  Then they invaded China in 37.)

Many do, and I am going to say with 100% confidence that I know many more military historians than you do And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing...And as far as the "they attacked us because they hate our way of life" refrain - AQ really doesn't care how Americans live their lives. Do they find our way of life vulgar and decadent? Absolutely. But UBL's motives for founding AQ, which have been articulated loudly, publicy, and repeatedly, is that the U.S. is the enemy because we provide backing to two infidel regimes that are currently occupying, in their mind, Muslim holy land - Saudi Arabia and Israel. Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem are the three holiest sites in Islam. AQ believes these sites are being corrupted by the U.S.-sustained Israeli and Saudi governments. They have articulated this over, and over, and over again. And they actually laugh at us when we say they attacked us because they "hate our way of life/freedom/whatever." Bin Laden actually directly addressed this in an interview before his death and retorted "if that is the case, how come we didn't attack Sweden then?" Terrorism is the use of indiscriminate violence to achieve political ends. All terrorist organizations have an ideology and political goals - that's what distinguishes a terrorist group from a good old-fashioned criminal organization. Often their political goals are a bit, well, crazy, but they pretty much all have clearly articulated political goals. That is how they attract membership and financial support. That's how Al-Qaida grew to what it was in 2000-2001 - they didn't recruit donors and people by saying "let's destroy freedom and apple pie!" They did it by saying "let's drive the infidels from Muslim land."This is perhaps a little too advanced for a 5th grader, but I don't think it's ever to early to start teaching kids that the world is, in fact, a rather complex place. I don't see how society benefits from raising more simple-minded people.

All Meglomaniacs need a rallying cry and an archenemy. They also tend to need poor, uneducated, disaffected young men for cannon fodder/suicide bombers. The US just makes for the biggest target on the world stage. Our support of "infidel regimes" is the excuse AQ uses for their actions but their ultimate goal is to be the ones in power in the middle east and to remake it into what they deem to be acceptable. If you hit the Saudis it does not make the same splash as hitting the US. It is the same concept as a Super Bowl ad in terms of fundraising and recruiting, - Go big or go home! What you have is people who want to revive the middle east of the Dark ages when Muslim culture there was in its ascendency and a bright spot in the world. If you give AQ everything they want in the middle east they will still fi and bnd a beef with the rest of the world and the US in particular until they are the ones "on top" again. Ultimately it is about power, they want it, we have it. What they fail to realize is that it is our way of life, freedom and apple pie that has allowed us to be where we are on the world stage. The other thing they fail to realize is that we will bring ourselves down in time, all empires do.

In the meantime, the other thing they forgot, we will hunt you down and kill you......because we can.

We may indeed eventually bring ourselves down....but it won't be against a third world country led by a bunch of religious fanatics......or a bunch of religious fanatics led by a third world country.

We are not the USSR, which was brought to it's knees by these idiots..... this is the United States of America...and no matter what  our detractors, both here and abroad, want to say about us we are still the greatest force for good the modern world has known. 

I'd say there are a few in this country. 

Of course, Kate......but it's the same as it alway has been in this country......the "few" are just that.  They get a voice because our constitution affords them a voice....but they don't make policy, no matter what yiou hear.  Policy is set by the majority...as always.

How do you qualify that statement? Voting? And do you think that when people vote they do so with great understanding of what would be "best" for the country? Or who has the best political ads. 

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