login
Yet another: What would you do? (Page 2)
-
No new posts
|
 2013-07-23 10:32 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert  3126     Boise, ID |  Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do?Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". ^^ Nice post!
Do you think the vacuum created by ending the "war on drugs" would be filled with the "war on terror" and "national security" as far as the militarization of police goes? |
| 2013-07-23 10:40 AM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
Pro 15655  | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Aarondb4 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". ^^ Nice post!
Do you think the vacuum created by ending the "war on drugs" would be filled with the "war on terror" and "national security" as far as the militarization of police goes? IMO, no. Look, it takes money to equip the Police like we are. The war on drugs is not about drugs, it's about money. Nobody cares at all how much drugs are taken off the street.....that's a lie, and it doesn't matter anyway....there's more coming and we should have damn well learned by now that it can't be stopped. Asset forfeiture laws are what makes the "war on drugs". I'll go one further and tell you that police departments wouldn't even waste their time with drug laws/arrests if there was not a tremendous amount of cash to be gained. |
| 2013-07-23 10:44 AM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. |
| 2013-07-23 10:47 AM in reply to: mr2tony |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... Wow, that's a pretty sobering article. :-/ OK, I feel bad for acknowledging this, but the part that shocked me the most was this: The 12 officers were acting on a tip from Mr. Stewart's former girlfriend, who said that he was growing marijuana in his basement. Mr. Stewart awoke, naked, to the sound of a battering ram taking down his door. Thinking that he was being invaded by criminals, as he later claimed, he grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta pistol. The police say that they knocked and identified themselves, though Mr. Stewart and his neighbors said they heard no such announcement. Mr. Stewart fired 31 rounds, the police more than 250. Six of the officers were wounded, and Officer Jared Francom was killed. Mr. Stewart himself was shot twice before he was arrested. Setting aside the officer losing his life and who was right or wrong... Holy crap, that SWAT team needs some serious training, or Mr. Stewart (former Vet) is one serious bad a$$. |
| 2013-07-23 10:49 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". Nice post LB, You have been a big influence on my position on legalizing drugs. I'm slowly coming over to the dark side. |
| 2013-07-23 11:04 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. |
| 2013-07-23 11:09 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. Edited by Left Brain 2013-07-23 11:12 AM |
| 2013-07-23 11:27 AM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. Most folks have a hard time with legalizing heroin... but you used to be able to buy morphine and hyperdermic needls from Sears & Robuck. Leagalized drugs will most certainly kill people and ruin lives... but illegal drugs are killing people and ruining lives today... the only difference is the drug trade is funding criminal enterprises, and corrupting law enforcment. And I can't stand it when I hear all the crap about taxing it to death. I can't stand "Sin" taxes. You tax something to pay for the cost of it... you tax legal drugs to pay for the health problems, and the rehab to get people off them. So society is not forced to pick up the tab for something most disapprove of. Then maybe we could actually get people help that need it... does not mean you can make a horse drink... and we can reserve prison space for those that should be there like you said. The Bloods and Crips and the Mexican Mafia are out of business overnight, and kids don't get killed in the cross fire of a drive by. The war on drugs is a complete farce and the ones getting rich are police department, corrupt law enforcement, and gangs. Edited by powerman 2013-07-23 11:28 AM |
| 2013-07-23 11:35 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by Left Brain I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. Most folks have a hard time with legalizing heroin... but you used to be able to buy morphine and hyperdermic needls from Sears & Robuck. Leagalized drugs will most certainly kill people and ruin lives... but illegal drugs are killing people and ruining lives today... the only difference is the drug trade is funding criminal enterprises, and corrupting law enforcment. And I can't stand it when I hear all the crap about taxing it to death. I can't stand "Sin" taxes. You tax something to pay for the cost of it... you tax legal drugs to pay for the health problems, and the rehab to get people off them. So society is not forced to pick up the tab for something most disapprove of. Then maybe we could actually get people help that need it... does not mean you can make a horse drink... and we can reserve prison space for those that should be there like you said. The Bloods and Crips and the Mexican Mafia are out of business overnight, and kids don't get killed in the cross fire of a drive by. The war on drugs is a complete farce and the ones getting rich are police department, corrupt law enforcement, and gangs. It has been my experience that the fact that drugs are illegal does NOT deter drug use. It must therefore follow that drug use (I'm talking about hard core drugs like heroin, meth, etc.) will not increase if they are legal. I don't teach my children about the dangers of heroin and meth because I don't want them to go to jail.....I teach them about it because I want them to enjoy their lives. I'd like to say another thing about drug use and children.......think very hard.....like so hard your brain hurts, before you ever allow your children to be given mood altering legal drugs such as ridilin, etc. A very large percentage of kids that we deal with who are heroin junkies started off being prescribed meds for ADD, ADHD, etc. They learn that drugs can be an answer and it's a very short hop to illicit drug use. We definately see a connection that crosses economical and social lines. Edited by Left Brain 2013-07-23 11:35 AM |
| 2013-07-23 12:05 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era  eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Edited by BrianRunsPhilly 2013-07-23 12:11 PM |
| 2013-07-23 12:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Edited by Left Brain 2013-07-23 12:58 PM |
| 2013-07-23 1:18 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era :) eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? I am a little late to this discussion, but I have just read every single one of the posts, and, LB, you seriously give me faith in humanity. Thank you for keepin it so, so real. |
| 2013-07-23 2:04 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Wow talk about inflation, my last recollection was $40 an ounce. Yeah, I see the issue, if you guys wait you get to keep the good stuff for yourselves Man I'm glad I discovered good scotch. Because, of course, alcohol is just sooo much better for you. /sarc |
| 2013-07-23 2:09 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Wow talk about inflation, my last recollection was $40 an ounce. Yeah, I see the issue, if you guys wait you get to keep the good stuff for yourselves Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Man I'm glad I discovered good scotch. Because, of course, alcohol is just sooo much better for you. /sarc And the weed is already on the street........some war, huh? |
| 2013-07-23 2:27 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Wow talk about inflation, my last recollection was $40 an ounce. Yeah, I see the issue, if you guys wait you get to keep the good stuff for yourselves Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Man I'm glad I discovered good scotch. Because, of course, alcohol is just sooo much better for you. /sarc And the weed is already on the street........some war, huh? LB, you don't just have a hard job, you have an impossible job. How do you continue to do this day after day knowing it's an untenable solution? I was just looking at some statistics. There are more people dying every year from prescription drug overdose than illicit drugs. But we spend >$15bn a year and over a trillion dollars since we declared the war on drugs? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? |
| 2013-07-23 2:41 PM in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain LB, you don't just have a hard job, you have an impossible job. How do you continue to do this day after day knowing it's an untenable solution? I was just looking at some statistics. There are more people dying every year from prescription drug overdose than illicit drugs. But we spend >$15bn a year and over a trillion dollars since we declared the war on drugs? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Wow talk about inflation, my last recollection was $40 an ounce. Yeah, I see the issue, if you guys wait you get to keep the good stuff for yourselves Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Man I'm glad I discovered good scotch. Because, of course, alcohol is just sooo much better for you. /sarc And the weed is already on the street........some war, huh? No, I have a great job, and the only one I ever wanted.....possibly the best job on the planet.....an absolute front row seat to life. Certainly there are parts of my job that border on absurd, and there are parts of it that contain unimaginable horror, and there are parts that are hilarious beyond words....but overall, there is constant opportunity to help someone, to make small differences in someone's life.....I could not possibly imagine trading those opportunities for another career. |
| 2013-07-23 6:13 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain LB, you don't just have a hard job, you have an impossible job. How do you continue to do this day after day knowing it's an untenable solution? I was just looking at some statistics. There are more people dying every year from prescription drug overdose than illicit drugs. But we spend >$15bn a year and over a trillion dollars since we declared the war on drugs? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Wow talk about inflation, my last recollection was $40 an ounce. Yeah, I see the issue, if you guys wait you get to keep the good stuff for yourselves Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Maybe the economics don't favor legalization. There's no doubt that people would be put out of work if drugs were legal. Is is more or less expensive to buy marijuana legally via the medical route or off the street? Last time I had any idea how much pot costs was in the disco era Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain So one could consider the expenditures on police equipment used primarily for drug busts as a business capital investment? That's just so much money in play it's boggling. Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain Damn you're logical. So here's a question - if there is so much money seized, why isn't that used to support addiction and rehabilitation programs? At least do something about the demand side of the equation for hard drugs. With an estimated $60 billion a year spent on illegal drugs, that's a lot of capitalistic activity going on. Doesn't matter what law enforcement does, someone will be always be willing to take the risk. Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... There is nothing in that article that is not factual. Most Police cars are now equipped with AR-15's and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, a 12 gauge shotgun with dozens of rounds. We have armored vehicles, air support, K-9 support, and on and on. Truly, we could gather an army that would be formidable against most nations of the world. One of the incidents that the article left out that was more of a catalyst than most people realize was the bank takeover robbery in the early 90's in Los Anglelos in which the police were so outgunned that they had to go to a local gun store and take weapons off the shelves to fight back.....we had AR-15's, both fully and semi-automatic within a matter of years in most Police cars around the country. I detest the attitude of "anything to make it home" although I understand where it comes from. In my own limited experience 5 officers I worked next to at some point, including a partner, have been killed in the line of duty. They left 17 children. Still, our job is to serve and protect the public, and if the pendulum swings too far in the wrong direction toward militarization than we have a problem.....maybe we are getting there. My wife, the most liberal person I know, is pro-gun.....her stance is simply, "I don't want to live in a country where only the Police have guns".....she's right. The answer? End the war on drugs......it's a farce. I have worked undercover, I have worked interdiction, and I supervise a drug unit. Our prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, our coffers are overflowing with seized money that can only be used for the purchase of equipment (guns, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc.) or salaries. IMO, if we legalize drugs in this country you will see a dramatic drop in gang violence, a dramatic drop in the ability of Police departments to equip themselves for "war", and a dramatic increase in prison space for truly violent people in our society....who, for all I care, can stay there forever. This is not uncharted territory. We had prohibition in this country. It gave rise to gangs and untold violence. (see Al Capone, etc.) When prohibition ended, so did the violence and the need for all of the "alcohol task forces". It's simple......the asset forfeiture laws a very exact and specifically say that the money can ONLY be used by Police departments for equipment, training, salaries, etc. Some state laws require that the money seized only be used for schools......so we don't seize any money at the state level.....easy to get around. I can clear a building, but I don't know squat about business. My guess is that if the math is done, the govt. loses out big time over the legalization of drugs.....that's how much money is taken in from asset seizures related to drug crimes. That's why you will never see me post that the taxation of legal drugs would be a boom for the economy.....I don't know if that's the case or not. The general public really doesn't have a clue how much money we're talking about that is seized.......but yeah, it's mind boggling. eta: Just read LB's comment regarding prescription drugs. I work in the ethical pharmaceutical industry. 18 years in big pharma R&D before getting out. The way DTC marketing combined with what are practically bribes by the drug reps to physicians in order to create conditions and new users is disgusting. Hey Brian....you sitting down? We pay $3500 - $5000 per lb. of good weed. $400 - $600 per oz. If we know someone is getting a load of weed we will wait a few weeks before we try for a search warrant. See the problem? Man I'm glad I discovered good scotch. Because, of course, alcohol is just sooo much better for you. /sarc And the weed is already on the street........some war, huh? No, I have a great job, and the only one I ever wanted.....possibly the best job on the planet.....an absolute front row seat to life. Certainly there are parts of my job that border on absurd, and there are parts of it that contain unimaginable horror, and there are parts that are hilarious beyond words....but overall, there is constant opportunity to help someone, to make small differences in someone's life.....I could not possibly imagine trading those opportunities for another career. And I know I'm in another country hell another hemisphere but I feel the same way about it - we thank you for your service. As you have often said, so long as the good people outnumber the bad we'll be okay. |
| 2013-07-24 5:04 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 4838 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mr2tony As if on cue, this article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780... From the article: "A number of federal agencies also now have their own SWAT teams, including the Fish & Wildlife Service, NASA and the Department of the Interior. In 2011, the Department of Education's SWAT team bungled a raid on a woman who was initially reported to be under investigation for not paying her student loans, though the agency later said she was suspected of defrauding the federal student loan program. " The Dept. of Education has a SWAT team??? WTF |
| 2013-07-24 8:02 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Yet another: What would you do? Originally posted by Left Brain No, I have a great job, and the only one I ever wanted.....possibly the best job on the planet.....an absolute front row seat to life. Certainly there are parts of my job that border on absurd, and there are parts of it that contain unimaginable horror, and there are parts that are hilarious beyond words....but overall, there is constant opportunity to help someone, to make small differences in someone's life.....I could not possibly imagine trading those opportunities for another career. What a great answer. Glad there are people like you keeping us safe. Totally different field, but I love what I do too. In science every day is an opportunity to learn/discover something nobody else has before. Can't imagine anything else. I do get to hear some of the funny things you guys go through from my dad's step-daughter (I don't consider her my family). |
|
|
|
|
| ||||
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK