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2015-03-10 5:42 AM
in reply to: StevenC

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
That helps alot! I've still got plenty of time to figure it out, but I will probably carry three bottles for the HIM, one concentrated with calories, one with a sports mix/electrolytes, and one plain water (one between my arms, two on the frame). I will probably take an aerodynamic hit somewhat, but that is far less important than being dehydrated and bonking on the run or the last part of the bike. For my A race the IM there will be on course support of course so I will probably stick with 2 bottles then. What did you use for a concentrated fuel mix?


2015-03-10 11:16 AM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Based on what I have seen, best way to carry 3 bottles from Aero standpoint is one between aero bars, one on downtube and one behind seat. When you put 2 behind seat, the drag is much higher. and it needs to be at tight to seat as possible. the one on aero bars needs to be tucked between arms so that it almost disappears when you view from side. The Torhans 20/30 work well too if you can get the bottle tucked up touching the frame, if not it's about equal to a single bottle. So it's user preference. I use 2 behind seat for training and then switch for race.

I started using Infinit last year and seems to work well. They are able to custom mix for you. Since I use concentrated bottles, they are able to turn the flavor way down so that when I use 6 scoops it's not too sweet. That was best selling point for me. You can also customize sodium, cal, etc. It's not cheap but if you use instead of any solids it works out to be a good deal. You have to buy online and the shipping kills me. Every Jan they have a one day 2 for 1 sale and I stock up.

You have to make sure to always take more water when taking on liquid fuel to help digest. Same as you would with solids. so I do one small swig of fuel and one bigger gulp of water every 15 min and also take water if feeling thirsty.
2015-03-10 12:00 PM
in reply to: StevenC

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
I plan on using Infinit as my main source of nutrition for my IM in October and had a question about the customized vs. Go Far recipes...

1) Should I try the Go Far (LBS sold so I would save shipping $$) product and see how it goes on some of my longer training rides and then customize a formula or,
2) Start out with a custom formula and then tweak it each time I order?

If option 2 is the way to go, how do I ensure I don't completely screw up my custom formula and end up with a non-optimal nutrition source? I went through the questionnaire and I (think) attached the screenshot of what it outputs is my formula.. Any glaring issues?





(Capture.PNG)



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Capture.PNG (144KB - 5 downloads)
2015-03-10 12:36 PM
in reply to: lanzodt

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
your custom is very close to my formula so looks good to me. I just have the flavor down a notch, calories and electrolytes up a couple. I am 158 lbs, so we calculated that I need about 280ish calories per hour. I was concerned that the preset might be a bit too sweet to mix concentrate but I have never tried. you can check out some of their helpful videos which demonstrate how to take sweat test and measure caloric needs. also, you can set up a time to speak to one of their consultants for 15 min. I did and he was able to offer some pretty good advice. I have used on all long training days and find it much easier to digest than other drinks and certainly solids.
2015-03-11 6:34 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Birkierunner

Originally posted by neweyes

Jim: I have two season planning questions for you. I've done eight weeks of prep now and am going to do three more building a bit of volume, then 12 weeks of base, 4 of build, 2 peak, and 1 race. One thing I'm wondering about is building volume in the Going Long pattern (10-12-13.5, 10.5-12.5-14, 11-13.5-15) vs. the Be Ironfit pattern (10-11-12, 12-13-14, 14-15-16). The other is about when to introduce muscular endurance sessions and how they change over the season. Do you have general thoughts on that? I'm happy to talk about what I see as my specific limiters and put it in context of my season if that makes it easier to discuss. Thanks!

Hi Michael, so sorry to have taken so long to get back to this question. With regard to the question on which pattern of building volume is correct…I would say neither. Both of these patterns are totally arbitrary and the Going Long pattern reflects more outdated methods of periodization – probably influenced by Gordo’s exposure to Joe Friel as a coach. I don’t want to get too negative but an arbitrary pattern of building volume (e.g. 3 weeks increase, 1 week decrease) simply does not take into consideration an athlete’s needs, goals, and limitations. Without knowing the needs and limitations an athlete has, its not very effective to lay out an arbitrary pattern of building hours. I also don’t agree with the concept of base that you’ve laid out. The term “base” has so many different interpretations that it has almost become meaningless. I could argue that the 8 weeks of “prep” that you have done could be called “base”. I use a different system where we divide general, specific, and race into training blocks where each block focuses on a specific adaptation we want to elicit. The athlete’s strengths/weaknesses will dictate what needs to be worked on in these blocks.

I really don’t use the term “muscular endurance” to describe any sessions I prescribe to athletes. I’ve read the use of the term in Going Long and Friel’s TTB and their use of the term simply doesn’t make much sense to me because its too general. So, I can’t really answer your question in those terms. Instead, I determine the athletes strengths/weaknesses by field testing in swim, bike, and run with test of varying lengths. For instance an athlete’s performance on 5 minute and 20 minute bike tests will give me an idea of what types of workouts I need to prescribe to address limiters. This will be addressed fairly early in the athlete’s program and will change as the athlete grows stronger. Phil Skiba’s house analogy in his book The Triathlete’s Guide to Training with Power is a good way to describe this. After limiters are addressed we switch to more race specific workouts as the goal race approaches. I’m guessing you might think this answer is a little un-satisfying but I think it’s a reflection of the different types of training resources/books you are relying on versus my approach.

There's some interesting stuff here... I didn't realize the traditional model of periodization was dated. I've never even thought of doing anything but something like three (or or two or four) weeks up, one week of recovery. What is the new model?

On muscular endurance, I think of it as the ability of peripheral muscles to resist fatigue at sub-threshold efforts. I'm not sure what's general about that. It seems that ability, especially on the bike, is the key to a solid Ironman time. To build it, I'm thinking about adding intervals in the 85-99% of threshold range to a mid-week ride during my major volume build (roughly 20-8 weeks pre-race), then as the race gets closer doing some long rides with some longer half-iron-ish efforts. I'm wondering when, if we can speak so generally, you usually prescribe those types of efforts for athletes and when you have athletes do above-threshold work.

 

 

2015-03-11 9:04 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Please, help me to wrap my workout around my work schedule.
I am trying to get some kind of IM plan for 20 weeks for Cedar Point in September

IS IT A GOOD PLAN?
So far I looked at trifuel plan, that I think should work for me, but maybe you know something better?
Here is the link to my weekly load
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WCjMFGaKqcNicZ4oXW_-5WXkgDzI...


MY WEEKLY SCHEDULE?
Ok, this is my crazy work schedule:
SUN: after third shift, very tiered, can do maybe 2-3 hours easy
MON: almost all day available
TUE: almost all day available
WED: almost all day available
THU: Only morning, limited time, about 1hr
FRI: Only morning, limited time, about 1:30 avaialbe
SAT: No time available, it has to be a rest day

I would like to do about 10-12 hrs a week in base period, from now till June
Then June- mid July 13-14 hrs a week
Then, mid July-mid August 15-16 hrs a week with the peak at 2nd week of August
then slowly going down until the race day.

Normally, intense workouts in a typical plan are right after the rest day, but I am so exhausted after my "rest," so I could do some more reocovery
I am looking for advice what day of my week will be the best for long bike/run ?
and what day to save to speed work?

VACATION?
Also, I have a family vacation planned for month that I has to have the most hours.
This is how my preliminary plan looks like
WEEK 1 - 12hrs
WEEK 2 - 18hrs
WEEK 3 - 18hrs - VACATION
WEEK 4 - 18hrs
WEEK 5 - 20hrs - the most weekly hours in training season
WEEK 6 - 16 hrs

I cannot move my vacation, but still, I have no Idea if I will be able to do at least 10 hrs that week.
Should I switch week 1 and week 3 plans? or take week 1-2 planned, and week 3 as many hrs as I can? But if I take too little on week 3, will week 4 throw me away with hard load?

Please help!!! Thanks!



2015-03-11 11:58 AM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by trig Please, help me to wrap my workout around my work schedule. I am trying to get some kind of IM plan for 20 weeks for Cedar Point in September IS IT A GOOD PLAN?

Wow...training for the full Iron distance requires some insane hours.  

I didn't go to the link for the training plan so all I see are the hour totals for the 6 weeks listed.  How many hours a week were you putting in when you were doing your HIM in 2011?  I would think that some of the training would have to be based on your past training experience.  I know that even if I quite my job and had all the time in the world I wouldn't be able to make it through a 20 hour training week right now.  My goal was to be up to 10 hours a week right now in my training (my peak volume for the HIM distance), but I had to make some adjustments to the plan and scale things back because I was feeling overworked and had a lot of nagging soreness that I needed to address.  So my hour totals are ending up in the 8-1/2 to 9 hour rage even though I would be doing 10-15% more if my body was responding better to the training.  So I would think that part of the schedule would have to do with you past training level and building on that.

Next,  I see that you have Monday-Wednesday where you have lots of time for training.  I am very jealous. Saturday is my only day of the week with out regular time commitments, but even those days seem to have something fighting from my time about half the time.  If you have back to back days where you can do long work outs you should be in good shape from a stand point of working around your schedule.  Training 12 hours straight to build you endurance up for an Ironman isn't practice and the solution that I have seen it that for endurance you try to get two consecutive days to add up to the number of hours that you will be racing.  In other words if your goal it to get your endurance up to 12 hours you do a 6 hour ride two consecutive days.  

I personally would do your long runs/rides on Monday & Tuesday or Tuesday & Wednesday since those are the day that you have time.  I personally don't have a problem with keeping a long run and long ride (or two long runs or two long rides) on consecutive days.  Other who have actually done some of the HIM & IM would have more relative input though (I am still on the training for my first Triathlon).  Also,  6-7 years ago I had a schedule that required my long run for marathon training to be the day before my track club did there weekly speed workout on the track.  I was used to having having a recovery day after my long runs and for my speed work to be after I was recovered from long runs.  I was sure my track work out would suffer, but I actually found that my best track work outs were after long slow runs.  So...I now don't mind doing speed work after long runs. I typically put them on days that I don't have a lot of time though because I can get through them on a day when I don't have a lot of leeway of time in the scheduled but I can't get through the long work outs on those days, so I can have a fuller week by doing speed work on those days.   

As far as the vacation week goes...you will defiantly need to work around that so it can be a light week of training.  The earlier in the training the easier it is to move recovery weeks around.  You could make the week you are on vacation a recovery week by adjusting the weeks leading up to and following it.  

There are a lot of different training plans out there.   I have seen some plans that have a "Time Poor" and "Time Rich" plan where the time poor plan gets the job done on few hours a week, but the time rich plan is done on a more enjoyable schedule.  I have seen what one author called the minimalist plan where he didn't actually give a training plan, but rather shared all his tips for saving time during your week.  Such as doing a 3 hour ride on your trainer rather than loading up you bike and driving somewhere to wait around for a group ride to start.  So... he spent only 3 hours and about 5 minutes for a 3 hour ride rather than the 4-5 hours that he would have spend to do the same volume with a group ride.  

So...looking at your schedule things look very doable.  Getting the right plan really depends on you though.  What you need to work on, where you are at when you start the plan, how your body responds to the training, etc.    

 

 

 

2015-03-11 1:44 PM
in reply to: lanzodt

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
just got an email from them running a buy one get second at 50% off deal

BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND...
Buy One Get One
50% OFF
Custom 25 Serving Formulas!


Use Code: SPRING15
2015-03-11 5:43 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Thanks for your reply.
Back in 2011 I did not keep a good track of my workouts, and had no plan at all.
Last year I finally took more serious approach, and at least I had a plan.
But I would like to use something else. I can do "comfortably" about 10 hrs a week. The only week on my peak at about 20 hours, I will have to take a day off work.
The long run day I think could be Sunday, but I cannot squeeze any other workout this day.
I understand that you did speed works the next day after the long ones, but normally I would like to take a day between them.
Then, my speed/intervals workouts, should they be before, or after the long rides/runs?
and how to combine runs and rides?
Thanks



Edited by trig 2015-03-11 5:44 PM
2015-03-12 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

SUN: after third shift, very tiered, can do maybe 2-3 hours easy MON: almost all day available TUE: almost all day available WED: almost all day available THU: Only morning, limited time, about 1hr FRI: Only morning, limited time, about 1:30 avaialbe SAT: No time available, it has to be a rest day  

My high school and college running coaches always seem to do:

1) Long easy run,

2) Medium long tempo run or run with sort surges mixed in

3) Short Speed Work out

4) Medium long easy run

5) Medium run on a hilly terrain or cross training

6) short easy Recovery day run

7) Short race or Long easy run.

So I would try to put speed work after a medium day where you go shorter than your long days and a little faster than your long day.  I don't have any science to back this though, just observation on what several coaches have done with their teams I have been on over about a 10 year period.  

So Here is an idea:

Sunday: Long Easy 90-180 mins. Run

Monday: Moderate to Easy  90-240 mins. bike (intervals/hills/speed work worked into shorter moderate rides.  For 20 hour weeks use this day for a longer ride) + 60-90 min swim

Tuesday: Moderate 45-70 mins Run (Go easy if you need a recovery run) + 60-90 min Swim

Wednesday: long Easy 180-360 mins Bike

Thursday: 45-60 mins Swim

Friday: Moderate 45-70 mins. Run (work in short surges/ repeats/speed work

Saturday: Rest

Disclaimer:  I have never done a Triathlon.  All of my coached endurance sports have been for running races from 1 mile up to full Marathons.  I am currently training for a 70.3 Tri and  personally have cut out all of my repeats type speed training and just do surges during my moderate runs/rides if my legs feel good (and take it slow and easy if they don't). Swimming is a different. Everyday day has drill sets, etc.

 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2015-03-12 10:50 AM
2015-03-12 10:19 AM
in reply to: trig

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1016
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McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

SUN: after third shift, very tiered, can do maybe 2-3 hours easy MON: almost all day available TUE: almost all day available WED: almost all day available THU: Only morning, limited time, about 1hr FRI: Only morning, limited time, about 1:30 avaialbe SAT: No time available, it has to be a rest day  

My high school and college running coaches always seem to do:

1) Long easy run,

2) Medium long tempo run or run with sort surges mixed in

3) Short Speed Work out

4) Medium long easy run

5) Medium run on a hilly terrain or cross training

6) short easy Recovery day run

7) Short race or Long easy run.

So I would try to put speed work after a medium day where you go shorter than your long days and a little faster than your long day.  I don't have any science to back this though, just observation on what several coaches have done with their teams I have been on over about a 10 year period.  

So Here is an idea:

Sunday: Long Easy 90-180 mins. Run

Monday: Moderate to Easy  90-240 mins. bike (intervals/hills/speed work worked into shorter moderate rides.  For 20 hour weeks use this day for a longer ride) + 60-90 min swim

Tuesday: Moderate 45-70 mins Run (Go easy if you need a recovery run) + 60-90 min Swim

Wednesday: long Easy 180-360 mins Bike

Thursday: 45-60 mins Swim

Friday: Moderate 45-70 mins. Run (work in short surges/ repeats/speed work

Saturday: Rest

Disclaimer:  I have never done a Triathlon.  All of my coached endurance sports have been for running races from 1 mile up to full Marathons.  I am currently training for a 70.3 Tri and  personally have cut out all of my repeats type speed training and just do surges during my moderate runs/rides if my legs feel good (and take it slow and easy if they don't). Swimming is a different. Everyday day has drill sets, etc.

 



2015-03-12 3:45 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Ok, here is how my simple plan should look like:

SUN: Swim TT + Easy Run
MON: Endurance Bike
TUE: Endurance Run + Easy bike
WED: Swim Intervals + Bike Tempo/Intervals
THU: Tempo/Intervals Run
FRI: Swim Intervals
SAT: REST

I would like to keep my workouts the same every week.
Only time for each workout will change as I move along the plan.

For example, Endurance bike will start at 25 miles, but will be 100 miles at peak week.
The same for the Endurance run: it starts at 6 miles and reaches 18 miles at peak

What do you think?
2015-03-18 8:05 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
I'm officially signed up for Escape Fort De Soto.
It's only a sprint but I haven't been outside on my bike since, mmm, the summer before last (I was pregnant last summer). I haven't swam open water since last year although I will have almost 2 weeks in Florida before the race to get some in swimming and cycling in. And part of the run is on the sand. I've read that the slower you are, the harder the run is since its torn up. I also realized after signing up that I am not in the 3rd wave as I thought since my age group as of the end of the year will put me in another category, so I'll be 7th. Out of 10. I am a slow swimmer.
I may be last. LOL.
2015-03-19 11:10 AM
in reply to: Kaper

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by Kaper

I'm officially signed up for Escape Fort De Soto.
It's only a sprint but I haven't been outside on my bike since, mmm, the summer before last (I was pregnant last summer). I haven't swam open water since last year although I will have almost 2 weeks in Florida before the race to get some in swimming and cycling in. And part of the run is on the sand. I've read that the slower you are, the harder the run is since its torn up. I also realized after signing up that I am not in the 3rd wave as I thought since my age group as of the end of the year will put me in another category, so I'll be 7th. Out of 10. I am a slow swimmer.
I may be last. LOL.


I am sure you will do great. Have you done much running on sand? It can definitely be challenging. I like to think very light on my feet and quick cadence. also, if it's very deep or chewed up, I look for footsteps to follow that mirror my stride. That way I don't sink in so deep.
2015-03-19 4:57 PM
in reply to: StevenC

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Originally posted by StevenC

Originally posted by Kaper

I'm officially signed up for Escape Fort De Soto.
It's only a sprint but I haven't been outside on my bike since, mmm, the summer before last (I was pregnant last summer). I haven't swam open water since last year although I will have almost 2 weeks in Florida before the race to get some in swimming and cycling in. And part of the run is on the sand. I've read that the slower you are, the harder the run is since its torn up. I also realized after signing up that I am not in the 3rd wave as I thought since my age group as of the end of the year will put me in another category, so I'll be 7th. Out of 10. I am a slow swimmer.
I may be last. LOL.


I am sure you will do great. Have you done much running on sand? It can definitely be challenging. I like to think very light on my feet and quick cadence. also, if it's very deep or chewed up, I look for footsteps to follow that mirror my stride. That way I don't sink in so deep.


Nope. Just snow. In the past I've run on sand the odd time but not enough to ever really get used to it.
Thanks for the tips! I'll keep that in mind.
2015-03-20 8:30 AM
in reply to: neweyes

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by neweyes

Originally posted by Birkierunner

Originally posted by neweyes

Jim: I have two season planning questions for you. I've done eight weeks of prep now and am going to do three more building a bit of volume, then 12 weeks of base, 4 of build, 2 peak, and 1 race. One thing I'm wondering about is building volume in the Going Long pattern (10-12-13.5, 10.5-12.5-14, 11-13.5-15) vs. the Be Ironfit pattern (10-11-12, 12-13-14, 14-15-16). The other is about when to introduce muscular endurance sessions and how they change over the season. Do you have general thoughts on that? I'm happy to talk about what I see as my specific limiters and put it in context of my season if that makes it easier to discuss. Thanks!

Hi Michael, so sorry to have taken so long to get back to this question. With regard to the question on which pattern of building volume is correct…I would say neither. Both of these patterns are totally arbitrary and the Going Long pattern reflects more outdated methods of periodization – probably influenced by Gordo’s exposure to Joe Friel as a coach. I don’t want to get too negative but an arbitrary pattern of building volume (e.g. 3 weeks increase, 1 week decrease) simply does not take into consideration an athlete’s needs, goals, and limitations. Without knowing the needs and limitations an athlete has, its not very effective to lay out an arbitrary pattern of building hours. I also don’t agree with the concept of base that you’ve laid out. The term “base” has so many different interpretations that it has almost become meaningless. I could argue that the 8 weeks of “prep” that you have done could be called “base”. I use a different system where we divide general, specific, and race into training blocks where each block focuses on a specific adaptation we want to elicit. The athlete’s strengths/weaknesses will dictate what needs to be worked on in these blocks.

I really don’t use the term “muscular endurance” to describe any sessions I prescribe to athletes. I’ve read the use of the term in Going Long and Friel’s TTB and their use of the term simply doesn’t make much sense to me because its too general. So, I can’t really answer your question in those terms. Instead, I determine the athletes strengths/weaknesses by field testing in swim, bike, and run with test of varying lengths. For instance an athlete’s performance on 5 minute and 20 minute bike tests will give me an idea of what types of workouts I need to prescribe to address limiters. This will be addressed fairly early in the athlete’s program and will change as the athlete grows stronger. Phil Skiba’s house analogy in his book The Triathlete’s Guide to Training with Power is a good way to describe this. After limiters are addressed we switch to more race specific workouts as the goal race approaches. I’m guessing you might think this answer is a little un-satisfying but I think it’s a reflection of the different types of training resources/books you are relying on versus my approach.

On muscular endurance, I think of it as the ability of peripheral muscles to resist fatigue at sub-threshold efforts. I'm not sure what's general about that. It seems that ability, especially on the bike, is the key to a solid Ironman time. To build it, I'm thinking about adding intervals in the 85-99% of threshold range to a mid-week ride during my major volume build (roughly 20-8 weeks pre-race), then as the race gets closer doing some long rides with some longer half-iron-ish efforts. I'm wondering when, if we can speak so generally, you usually prescribe those types of efforts for athletes and when you have athletes do above-threshold work.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that almost any workout we do..at least to some degree...helps build muscular endurance.  Some types of workouts are more effective than others but we shouldn't get caught up in the notion that you have to hit pace x to achieve physiological adaptation y.  There is a spectrum of adaptations that will occur as you move from easy to hard efforts.  So, when you asked when you should introduce "muscular endurance sessions" I said I don't like the term because its too general....many types of workouts will help build muscular endurance to some degree...some more than others.  And it all gets down to the strengths and weaknesses of the athlete as to when you would schedule one type of workout over another.  Shane had a good post in last year's  Power Mentor Group  from last year (see page 21) that gives an overview how you can use testing to determine what approaches you could use in building your training plan.



2015-03-24 7:19 AM
in reply to: trig

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by trig Please, help me to wrap my workout around my work schedule. I am trying to get some kind of IM plan for 20 weeks for Cedar Point in September IS IT A GOOD PLAN? So far I looked at trifuel plan, that I think should work for me, but maybe you know something better? Here is the link to my weekly load https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WCjMFGaKqcNicZ4oXW_-5WXkgDzI... MY WEEKLY SCHEDULE? Ok, this is my crazy work schedule: SUN: after third shift, very tiered, can do maybe 2-3 hours easy MON: almost all day available TUE: almost all day available WED: almost all day available THU: Only morning, limited time, about 1hr FRI: Only morning, limited time, about 1:30 avaialbe SAT: No time available, it has to be a rest day I would like to do about 10-12 hrs a week in base period, from now till June Then June- mid July 13-14 hrs a week Then, mid July-mid August 15-16 hrs a week with the peak at 2nd week of August then slowly going down until the race day. Normally, intense workouts in a typical plan are right after the rest day, but I am so exhausted after my "rest," so I could do some more reocovery I am looking for advice what day of my week will be the best for long bike/run ? and what day to save to speed work? VACATION? Also, I have a family vacation planned for month that I has to have the most hours. This is how my preliminary plan looks like WEEK 1 - 12hrs WEEK 2 - 18hrs WEEK 3 - 18hrs - VACATION WEEK 4 - 18hrs WEEK 5 - 20hrs - the most weekly hours in training season WEEK 6 - 16 hrs I cannot move my vacation, but still, I have no Idea if I will be able to do at least 10 hrs that week. Should I switch week 1 and week 3 plans? or take week 1-2 planned, and week 3 as many hrs as I can? But if I take too little on week 3, will week 4 throw me away with hard load? Please help!!! Thanks!

Does your plan actually have you jump in from 12 hours in week 1 to 18 hours in week 2????  I know you said you were doing about 10 hours/week to prep for the spring but what is that extra 6 hours/week going from week 1 to 2 comprised of?   That's a very risky sudden increase in hours

2015-03-26 11:23 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

We had one last gasp of winter here with an inch of snow but it has now melted and we should see 60 degree temps by next week.  The mentor program is supposed to go to the end of March/April.   I am wondering who in the group wants to keep this thread going.  I realize I have been out of the loop lately due to a lot of work-related travel and I apologize for that.   Let me know if you folks want to keep this ball rolling into spring!

2015-03-27 2:06 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Birkierunner

The mentor program is supposed to go to the end of March/April.   I am wondering who in the group wants to keep this thread going. 

I am doing my "A Race" the 25th of April (a 70.3).  I will be regrouping after then to make plans for what I want to do next.  Keeping the group going until the end of April would be great for me. 

Right now I am getting in my last long runs and rides (16 mile run last Saturday and probably around a 55+ miles ride this week end).  I have only got in one open water swim practice and my longest swim (in the pool) this year has been 800m.  I knew that it would be April before I could do much open water swimming due to weather and planned to get longer swims in leading up to race day as I cut back on running and cycling and hit the open water.  

Any tips for the final 4 weeks of preparation?

 

  



Edited by BlueBoy26 2015-03-27 2:07 PM
2015-03-27 2:28 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by Birkierunner

The mentor program is supposed to go to the end of March/April.   I am wondering who in the group wants to keep this thread going. 

I am doing my "A Race" the 25th of April (a 70.3).  I will be regrouping after then to make plans for what I want to do next.  Keeping the group going until the end of April would be great for me. 

Right now I am getting in my last long runs and rides (16 mile run last Saturday and probably around a 55+ miles ride this week end).  I have only got in one open water swim practice and my longest swim (in the pool) this year has been 800m.  I knew that it would be April before I could do much open water swimming due to weather and planned to get longer swims in leading up to race day as I cut back on running and cycling and hit the open water.  

Any tips for the final 4 weeks of preparation?

 

Is that 800 m just your longest continuous swim or longest total swim workout yardage?

2015-03-27 4:06 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Birkierunner

Is that 800 m just your longest continuous swim or longest total swim workout yardage?

 

800 meters is my longest continuous swim.  

My longest swim work out yardage is around 1200m.  My goal is to get 1000 meters in over my lunch break 3 times a week.  With travel from the office and changing I typically only have about 25 minutes of time when I am actually in the pool.  I usually do 400-500 meter to warm-up then 400-500 meters of drills then then hurry back to the office.  My plan was to start hitting the open water every Saturday starting the middle of March and start at about 25 minutes of continuous (or mostly continuous) swimming and add 5 minutes every week up to the race.  I got in the first open water session two weeks ago but was out of town last week and not able to do my open water swim.  Two weeks ago I decided not to start with the timed continuous swimming and just sent most of the session getting a feel for my wet suit and trying different things with sighting and simulated race starts.  I have four more Saturdays before race day.  How should I plan my swimming to get the most out of my 25 minutes lunch swimming session and my Saturday open water sessions (which aren't limited on time)? 

 



2015-03-28 9:31 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

Originally posted by Birkierunner

The mentor program is supposed to go to the end of March/April.   I am wondering who in the group wants to keep this thread going.  I realize I have been out of the loop lately due to a lot of work-related travel and I apologize for that.   Let me know if you folks want to keep this ball rolling into spring!

Hi Jim, I appreciate all the advice you've doled out. If you're up for keeping this thread going, I'm all for it, but I'd fine with letting it die too. Happy spring!

2015-03-30 6:09 AM
in reply to: neweyes

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Hey Jim, I feel like it would be nice to keep it going since most of us probably are targeting races in the summer but I understand that it comes at a time commitment from you. The thread has been a little inactive but I feel you have a lot of experience that all of us would gladly learn from as we get nearer to our races.

I had a fun day yesterday, it was wetsuit test day It was a first time swimming in neoprene for me, and what a riot it was. Managed to pick out a great suit I think, which wasn't so easy based on my body type (very tall and quite skinny) but now I can't wait to swim in it in open water.
2015-03-31 1:01 PM
in reply to: Snaaijer

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)

I'm more than happy to keep the thread going !!

2015-03-31 4:08 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: Jim Kelley's (Birkierunner) General and Long Course Group (OPEN)
Great! So then I'd like to pick your brain on a training question I have. Up until early March, my training has been run-heavy. My swimming has been steady week in week out, three times a week most weeks, I'm not worried about that at all. After my half marathon in early March I dropped the mileage to recover and to pick up the miles on the bike. I'm now picking the running miles back up, but feel that doing intensity runs really takes a lot more out of me now that I've got a full triathlon training schedule rather than a mostly running schedule. So I'm wondering, does it make sense to do any kind of threshold or interval training while focusing on IM training? I do threshold training in the swim and bike, but for the run I am a little hesitant. I'd venture to guess that I would run my IM marathon in like 3:35-3:40 absolute best case scenario, which is a pace that in normal training is an easy easy pace. So I'm wondering if the added trainingstress of doing hard runs is worth the fatigue that will be carried over to other training.
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