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2016-02-13 10:18 PM

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Subject: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.


2016-02-14 7:26 AM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.


Aww, can I answer this please? I'll even join Peter Griffin's Church of the Fonz to prove my strong religious belief if I have to!
The answer is, it's God testing Republicans.
God-fearing Christian conservatives are being tested.
God is mobilizing His troops ensuring they are ready to fight the president tooth and nail as he attempts to sully this wondrous land of the Free with the appointment of some liberal black-robed monster intent on murdering babies, destroying Christianity, requiring "tolerance" of gay marriage, ending Citizens United, and destroying the United States as we know it!

btw Moonrocket, brilliant question.



2016-02-14 7:28 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy

Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.


Aww, can I answer this please? I'll even join Peter Griffin's Church of the Fonz to prove my strong religious belief if I have to!
The answer is, it's God testing Republicans.
God-fearing Christian conservatives are being tested.
God is mobilizing His troops ensuring they are ready to fight the president tooth and nail as he attempts to sully this wondrous land of the Free with the appointment of some liberal black-robed monster intent on murdering babies, destroying Christianity, requiring "tolerance" of gay marriage, ending Citizens United, and destroying the United States as we know it!

btw Moonrocket, brilliant question.


Yeah, everyone knows G-d wants Ted Cruz to be president. He said so himself. (Ted, not G-d.).
2016-02-14 8:30 AM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs

Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.

Brilliant question!

I don't for a moment presume to be a theologian, however I have some knowledge of scripture.  God is pretty clear on our responsibility with respect to the law of the land:

Romans 13:1-7King James Version (KJV)

  • 13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
  • 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
  • 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
  • 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
  • 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
  • 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
  • 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

That all basically says that we must obey and follow the laws of the land.  The law of the land - the Constitution - says:

  • “ . . . the president shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint…Judges of the supreme Court.” 

It doesn't say "may" it says "shall," nor does the constitution say anything about waiting until the next president is elected.  Although I seriously doubt that ANY of our elected buffoons officials give a  rat's arse about what scripture or the law has to say as they harken to their own agendas.

All I really know is we are about to witness a political fight the likes of which most of us have not seen in our lifetimes.  The silly season of an election year was just supplanted by what will surely be open hostility between the two sides as they enter what is typically a contentious battle over a new Supreme court nominee.  This time around, with the balance of the court at stake, the battle is sure to be epic.

2016-02-14 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.


I could recommend some theology texts, but reading them would force you away of making fun of those who believe in God. If by the chance you are remotely serious, for Christian theology, start with Aquinas, Augustine, throw in some Luther, Calvin, Barth and then Bonhoeffer and Lewis.








Edited by NXS 2016-02-14 1:22 PM
2016-02-14 1:59 PM
in reply to: #5167054

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Honestly, I did not in any way mean to make fun of people.

I really just don't understand this. The same way I don't understand certain religious hospitals not liking to remove care from an elderly person with a terminal diagnosis that will die without it. At that point I would think you are respecting god's wishes because he seems to be actively trying to get the person to heaven.

I feel I'm pretty open minded and actually a big supporter of religious freedom as I have seen what it has done to enhance the lives of many friends. I just don't understand the view point when I see people saying they are praying the next appointment will be held off til after the next election. I really would like a better understanding.

I worded the question as Uncontroversial as I could (but I do struggle with religious terminology).

Thanks!


2016-02-14 3:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by Moonrocket

Honestly, I did not in any way mean to make fun of people.

I really just don't understand this. The same way I don't understand certain religious hospitals not liking to remove care from an elderly person with a terminal diagnosis that will die without it. At that point I would think you are respecting god's wishes because he seems to be actively trying to get the person to heaven.

I feel I'm pretty open minded and actually a big supporter of religious freedom as I have seen what it has done to enhance the lives of many friends. I just don't understand the view point when I see people saying they are praying the next appointment will be held off til after the next election. I really would like a better understanding.

I worded the question as Uncontroversial as I could (but I do struggle with religious terminology).

Thanks!

In your two short posts there are a number of different theological questions that have been discussed for centuries. The main theme common in both of your posts is that of the nature of God. Ask ten Christians about God's nature and you are likely to get as many different answers. The view common to your posts is which is fairly Calvinistic, predestination. If one sees God as one who moves us around like chess pieces and we have no free will, I can understand your position and questions. But there are other views and theologies of God that show it is our freewill to follow Him and obey His teachings or not. Which is correct? Probably some of both. That said, I don't believe we can put God in a box and say this is what He is. When we do that we limit Him. The only thing limited is our understanding of Him. If you are truly interested, read some of what I listed above and talk to people who not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. The change in lives comes not from knowing about God (Jesus), but knowing Him on a personal level. Sorry I really didn't answer your questions, theology doesn't lend itself well to threads on the internet. It would be great to be able to sit down with you and discuss the nature of God in light of the situations you posted.





Edited by NXS 2016-02-14 3:35 PM
2016-02-14 5:05 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.

Brilliant question!

I don't for a moment presume to be a theologian, however I have some knowledge of scripture.  God is pretty clear on our responsibility with respect to the law of the land:

Romans 13:1-7King James Version (KJV)

  • 13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
  • 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
  • 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
  • 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
  • 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
  • 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
  • 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

That all basically says that we must obey and follow the laws of the land.  The law of the land - the Constitution - says:

  • “ . . . the president shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint…Judges of the supreme Court.” 

It doesn't say "may" it says "shall," nor does the constitution say anything about waiting until the next president is elected.  Although I seriously doubt that ANY of our elected buffoons officials give a  rat's arse about what scripture or the law has to say as they harken to their own agendas.

All I really know is we are about to witness a political fight the likes of which most of us have not seen in our lifetimes.  The silly season of an election year was just supplanted by what will surely be open hostility between the two sides as they enter what is typically a contentious battle over a new Supreme court nominee.  This time around, with the balance of the court at stake, the battle is sure to be epic.




Shouldn't be a fight at all. I imagine we'll see a bunch of childish whining about obstructionist repubs, but the Senate is under no obligation to vote. There hasnt been a confirmation like this in 80 years and I believe the democrats actually passed legislation in 1960 prohibiting it from happening. But yeah, I predict major whining.
2016-02-16 10:06 AM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
Originally posted by NXS

Originally posted by Moonrocket

Honestly, I did not in any way mean to make fun of people.

I really just don't understand this. The same way I don't understand certain religious hospitals not liking to remove care from an elderly person with a terminal diagnosis that will die without it. At that point I would think you are respecting god's wishes because he seems to be actively trying to get the person to heaven.

I feel I'm pretty open minded and actually a big supporter of religious freedom as I have seen what it has done to enhance the lives of many friends. I just don't understand the view point when I see people saying they are praying the next appointment will be held off til after the next election. I really would like a better understanding.

I worded the question as Uncontroversial as I could (but I do struggle with religious terminology).

Thanks!

In your two short posts there are a number of different theological questions that have been discussed for centuries. The main theme common in both of your posts is that of the nature of God. Ask ten Christians about God's nature and you are likely to get as many different answers. The view common to your posts is which is fairly Calvinistic, predestination. If one sees God as one who moves us around like chess pieces and we have no free will, I can understand your position and questions. But there are other views and theologies of God that show it is our freewill to follow Him and obey His teachings or not. Which is correct? Probably some of both. That said, I don't believe we can put God in a box and say this is what He is. When we do that we limit Him. The only thing limited is our understanding of Him. If you are truly interested, read some of what I listed above and talk to people who not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. The change in lives comes not from knowing about God (Jesus), but knowing Him on a personal level. Sorry I really didn't answer your questions, theology doesn't lend itself well to threads on the internet. It would be great to be able to sit down with you and discuss the nature of God in light of the situations you posted.



Thank you for taking the time to explain it! I will look up some of those readings!
2016-02-16 11:13 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs

Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by Moonrocket

If God calls a Supreme Court justice to heaven with a year remaining in the current president's reign- wouldn't that be his message that the current president should replace him? If he's all knowing and controlling- wouldn't he have held back for a year if he didn't want the current president to nominate?

I'm really curious as I'm not super well schooled in the beliefs of a god as an all knowing being and how that impacts daily life.

Help me understand how this is not interpreted as divine intervention.

Brilliant question!

I don't for a moment presume to be a theologian, however I have some knowledge of scripture.  God is pretty clear on our responsibility with respect to the law of the land:

Romans 13:1-7King James Version (KJV)

  • 13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
  • 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
  • 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
  • 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
  • 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
  • 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
  • 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

That all basically says that we must obey and follow the laws of the land.  The law of the land - the Constitution - says:

  • “ . . . the president shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint…Judges of the supreme Court.” 

It doesn't say "may" it says "shall," nor does the constitution say anything about waiting until the next president is elected.  Although I seriously doubt that ANY of our elected buffoons officials give a  rat's arse about what scripture or the law has to say as they harken to their own agendas.

All I really know is we are about to witness a political fight the likes of which most of us have not seen in our lifetimes.  The silly season of an election year was just supplanted by what will surely be open hostility between the two sides as they enter what is typically a contentious battle over a new Supreme court nominee.  This time around, with the balance of the court at stake, the battle is sure to be epic.

Shouldn't be a fight at all. I imagine we'll see a bunch of childish whining about obstructionist repubs, but the Senate is under no obligation to vote. There hasnt been a confirmation like this in 80 years and I believe the democrats actually passed legislation in 1960 prohibiting it from happening. But yeah, I predict major whining.

What part of this hasn't occured in 80 years? We have a vacant SCOTUS seat and a sitting president. It's really not that rare, tends to happen once or twice a decade. Despite what Ted Cruz says, Obama is not a lame duck president. That label doesn't kick in until after the elections are over. But even if he were, how does it matter. He's still the president until January whatever of 2017, and it's his constitutional right as president to appoint a justice to a vacancy right up until the day that his successor is sworn in.  I wonder, at what point in a president's final term does Mr. Cruz think a president should just quit doing his job and phone it in? 

The Senate is absolutely free to vote against any nominee as they see fit, both in committee and on the floor. And seeing as how the GOP currently holds the majority in the Senate Judiciary Committee as well as the Senate as a whole, blocking Obama's nominees is not a problem. So (in my opinion) the childish whining is to come out before Scalia's corpse is even cold and proclaim that Obama shouldn't even be allowed to do his job and make an appointment. Or to refuse to even hold confirmation hearings. Or to declare that they'll block any and all nominees without even knowing who the candidate is. Just as it's the president's job is to nominate a justice, it's the Senate's job to hold a confirmation hearing on that successor. I really don't care how they vote, but I do expect my Senate to do their job. 

And just an FYI, the 1960 Democrats didn't pass legislation prohibiting a late-term appointee, the passed a Senate resolution against recess appointees. A resolution that, ironically, the GOP at the time fiercly opposed and what Obama could very well end up doing this year. The full title was "Expressing the Sense of the Senate That The President Should Not Make Recess Appointments to the Supreme Court, Except to Prevent or End a Breakdown in the Administration of the Court's Business" . I't s contradicted, and therefore irrelevant, by the Constitution that states " The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session."

2016-02-16 4:38 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs

What's funny is that I'm pretty conservative on most issues, but I'm more inclined to support liberal justices.
It's more of a political mess though because there are some issues I care a lot about that the conservative half supports and there are issues I care a lot about that the liberal justices care about.  So it's a toss up for me.

As for the "religious" argument about this...  #eyeroll 



2016-02-17 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs
It wasn't an argument- it was a question. While I'm not religious I will send a bunch of Boulder Hippy healing vibes for your eye issue ;-)
2016-02-17 8:11 PM
in reply to: Moonrocket

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Subject: RE: Question for those of you with strong religious beliefs

Originally posted by Moonrocket It wasn't an argument- it was a question. While I'm not religious I will send a bunch of Boulder Hippy healing vibes for your eye issue ;-)

lol, i feel the vibes....  :-D

In all seriousness, I'm not a religious guy at all.  I have a huge problem with religion because it's all man made.  What I do believe in is the Bible, which I believe is the inspired word of God.  Religion is man's various attempt to interpret the Bible, and man is flawed so therefore religion is flawed.  Hence the various train wreck churches around the world that claim to be Christian.

Believe it or not, according to the Bible we live in a fallen world that is ruled over by Satan not God.  (bet you never heard that in sunday school) There is a lot of evil (hard to argue) on this planet and all kinds of despicable things occur.  God gives us the free will to choose to follow him, or turn our backs on him and follow the world which will lead to eternal separation from God.  We are not robots predestined on a remote control path laid out by God.  He has set out a plan for us, but we choose to follow it or not.  Once we turn to God and accept him as a savior, then we are born again into the Spirit of God and no longer under Satans control.
That being said, we still have our free will choice and can succumb to temptation and still do bad things even as a Christian.
God doesn't want me to be unhealthy, but I can still eat like crap and not exercise as an example.  If I die of a heart attack due to my gluttony it's because of my freewill choice to not take care of myself, not because God wanted me to die of a heart attack.
We also still live in a sin filled world, so I could be living a sin free perfect life (not possible, but hypothetically) and some punk could gun me down on the street.  It's not Gods plan for that to happen, but due to the nature of evil in the world it unfortunately can and does happen.

There are those that believe that their life is predestined before them and they have no choice as to anything that's going to happen.  I counter that there's no Biblical support for this and it's just a man made thing to let people feel "special" because they were "chosen" and you "weren't".

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