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 2016-06-16 8:44 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Champion  7821     Brooklyn, NY |  Subject: RE: What do you think?Originally posted by mdg2003 I'm not sure where I said she represents the establishment, but I do believe she does. The establishment candidates were Hilarry and Jeb. Nobody can argue that point. Being establishment or not isn't really an issue I care to get sidetracked on. I feel both Hillary and Jeb represent what I don't want to see in my government, so I don't support either. You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. I don't really think Hillary is the one doing that. It's certainly been a focal point of Sanders' campaign, and, given the relative success of his campaign, it's not surprising that he's opened the discussion across the Democratic party. Villifying wall street and the wealthy hasn't really been part of Hillary's platform-- in fact, I'll refer to my earlier post and say that you can't, on the one hand, criticize her for taking money from WS banks and speaking engagements (as many of her critics have) while also complaining that she's waging a class war. That discrepancy is part of an ongoing attempt, basically, to throw every possible criticism at her, even if they're contradictory with one another. How does a person who has had a successful career in government, been secretary of state, and a candidate for president supposedly run on a platform that women can't be successful? Originally posted by mdg2003 Yeah, Europe is shiiiting their collective pants over the prospect of a trump presidency! You say that like it's a good thing. I actually don't think that's what's happening. That implies that they're scared. I don't think they're any more scared than a lot of people here in the US. I've said it a million times: If Great Britain or Spain were about to elect a billionaire reality-tv star with no experience in government, and with a history of saying and doing the things that Trump has said and done in his life and in this campaign, we'd all think they were a bunch of idiots. And we'd be right. |
| 2016-06-16 9:19 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. Separately, I think this (what you've said above) is an example of listening to like-minded people telling you what people who disagree with you believe. The far right, and the GOP establishment would like to you believe that that is what the Democrats believe, but it isn't really the case. There are certainly a small group of fringe activists who want to burn down Wall Street and impose a true socialist government. Those people are no more representative of the Democratic or Progressive movement as a whole than the people on the right who want to impose Christian Sharia law represent the GOP or Conservatives. As usual, we only hear the people who shout the loudest, who drown out the majority of people in the middle with far more mainstream views. Even Bernie Sanders isn't a "true" socialist, he's a Democratic Socialist, which isn't the same thing. The structure he's proposing is still based on a capitalist economy, just one with guardrails in place that prevent big businesses from exploiting their workforce and crushing competition. Isn't that what everyone wants? "True" socialists reject Sanders' platform because it's based on a capitalist economy. Likewise, the Democratic party as a whole is not saying "successful people are the boogeyman" or "success is only available to white males". Again, that is the right wing telling you what Democrats think, instead of actually listening to them yourself and coming to your own decisions. There IS economic inequity in the US. That is undeniable. We can debate the causes and the extent of the disparity, but it exists, and is getting worse at an exponential rate. Even if you believe that there should be no guardrails in place to protect the poor and the middle class, the current progress is unsustainable. A smaller and smaller percentage of the population controls an ever-increasing percentage of the wealth, and with it comes control of government, the media, and an ability to stack the deck in their favor, eliminating competition from small business and putting increasing pressure on their workers to do more for less money or risk losing their jobs overseas. It's unreasonable to assume that that can continue indefinitely. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. |
| 2016-06-16 10:37 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 6838  Tejas | Subject: RE: What do you think? I think were both making our statements from the standpoint that neither is capable of reaching a POV based on our own intellect. I can tell you with one hundred percent certainty that I don't get all my news from FOX nor do I get my opinions from Rush Limbagh. I can sort through the smokescreens both sides are pumping out and reach my own conclusions as to what is really happening in the USA and what is important to me as a citizen. Trump scares the crap out of me because I still am not sure what he really believes and what he really will do if elected. Hillary scares me more because I know where she plans to take us. Im going to vote for the lesser of the two evils based on what is more important to me, not what glen beck tells me is important. |
| 2016-06-16 1:06 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. Separately, I think this (what you've said above) is an example of listening to like-minded people telling you what people who disagree with you believe. The far right, and the GOP establishment would like to you believe that that is what the Democrats believe, but it isn't really the case. There are certainly a small group of fringe activists who want to burn down Wall Street and impose a true socialist government. Those people are no more representative of the Democratic or Progressive movement as a whole than the people on the right who want to impose Christian Sharia law represent the GOP or Conservatives. As usual, we only hear the people who shout the loudest, who drown out the majority of people in the middle with far more mainstream views. Even Bernie Sanders isn't a "true" socialist, he's a Democratic Socialist, which isn't the same thing. The structure he's proposing is still based on a capitalist economy, just one with guardrails in place that prevent big businesses from exploiting their workforce and crushing competition. Isn't that what everyone wants? "True" socialists reject Sanders' platform because it's based on a capitalist economy. Likewise, the Democratic party as a whole is not saying "successful people are the boogeyman" or "success is only available to white males". Again, that is the right wing telling you what Democrats think, instead of actually listening to them yourself and coming to your own decisions. There IS economic inequity in the US. That is undeniable. We can debate the causes and the extent of the disparity, but it exists, and is getting worse at an exponential rate. Even if you believe that there should be no guardrails in place to protect the poor and the middle class, the current progress is unsustainable. A smaller and smaller percentage of the population controls an ever-increasing percentage of the wealth, and with it comes control of government, the media, and an ability to stack the deck in their favor, eliminating competition from small business and putting increasing pressure on their workers to do more for less money or risk losing their jobs overseas. It's unreasonable to assume that that can continue indefinitely. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. I think it is disgusting that you put Christian and Sharia law together. It is totally insulting and shows a lack of understanding of the Christian faith. |
| 2016-06-16 1:26 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. I think you might have misunderstood my position here. My beef is with corporate America is with their lack of problem solving skills. As a shareholder, I'm all about making profit. As an employee, I'm all for making a profit. However, most companies today rely on lay offs and job cuts to hit their numbers. Once that is accomplished, big bonuses are paid out, then those affected by lay offs are eventually re-hired or cuts are restored. Repeat cycle. Not solving any problems, yet we pay the bonuses. The response is that they have to pay big bonuses to retain top notch people. My view is that these people are not top notch if they can't repair a faulty business model. The democrats keep saying they are going to fix this, yet so far it's all smoke screen. |
| 2016-06-16 1:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. Separately, I think this (what you've said above) is an example of listening to like-minded people telling you what people who disagree with you believe. The far right, and the GOP establishment would like to you believe that that is what the Democrats believe, but it isn't really the case. There are certainly a small group of fringe activists who want to burn down Wall Street and impose a true socialist government. Those people are no more representative of the Democratic or Progressive movement as a whole than the people on the right who want to impose Christian Sharia law represent the GOP or Conservatives. As usual, we only hear the people who shout the loudest, who drown out the majority of people in the middle with far more mainstream views. Even Bernie Sanders isn't a "true" socialist, he's a Democratic Socialist, which isn't the same thing. The structure he's proposing is still based on a capitalist economy, just one with guardrails in place that prevent big businesses from exploiting their workforce and crushing competition. Isn't that what everyone wants? "True" socialists reject Sanders' platform because it's based on a capitalist economy. Likewise, the Democratic party as a whole is not saying "successful people are the boogeyman" or "success is only available to white males". Again, that is the right wing telling you what Democrats think, instead of actually listening to them yourself and coming to your own decisions. There IS economic inequity in the US. That is undeniable. We can debate the causes and the extent of the disparity, but it exists, and is getting worse at an exponential rate. Even if you believe that there should be no guardrails in place to protect the poor and the middle class, the current progress is unsustainable. A smaller and smaller percentage of the population controls an ever-increasing percentage of the wealth, and with it comes control of government, the media, and an ability to stack the deck in their favor, eliminating competition from small business and putting increasing pressure on their workers to do more for less money or risk losing their jobs overseas. It's unreasonable to assume that that can continue indefinitely. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. I think it is disgusting that you put Christian and Sharia law together. It is totally insulting and shows a lack of understanding of the Christian faith. Sorry you feel that way. More likely, your disgust represents your lack of understanding of what Sharia law is. Sharia law is simply the religious legal system that is based on the principles of Islam, which governs those that follow the Muslim faith. Or, put more simply, it is the belief that religious principles should dictate civil law. So, for example, when you have an elected representative who refuses to issue marriage certificates because her own religion forbids gay marriage, or when, for example, you have elected representatives trying to outlaw a medical procedure because it conflicts with their personal faith, that's really no different than what Sharia law is. Edited by jmk-brooklyn 2016-06-16 1:30 PM |
| 2016-06-16 1:40 PM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. The democrats keep saying they are going to fix this, yet so far it's all smoke screen. How are they supposed to "fix this" when they have a minority in congress and the Republicans have made it clear that they want no restrictions placed around businesses' unfettered ability to make as much money as possible, regardless of how many jobs they ship overseas and how many people they lay off? You have the same people railing against increasing the minimum wage, while at the same time complaining that there are too many people on welfare. Maybe if businesses were responsible for paying their people a living wage, there wouldn't be as many people on the dole? And don't say, "if people don't like what they're being paid, they can just quit and go work somewhere else," because in many, many communities around the country, the lack of guardrails preventing large companies from squeezing out the competition has meant that there isn'twhere else to work. You can either work at the Wal-mart, the Home Depot, the Michael's, or one of the dozen fast-food restaurants in the same mall as the Wal-Mart and pay whatever pathetic wage they offer, or you can drive 40 miles to the next town. Problem is, you've got the same exact stores in the next town, and the exact same problems. |
| 2016-06-16 3:45 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. The democrats keep saying they are going to fix this, yet so far it's all smoke screen. How are they supposed to "fix this" when they have a minority in congress and the Republicans have made it clear that they want no restrictions placed around businesses' unfettered ability to make as much money as possible, regardless of how many jobs they ship overseas and how many people they lay off? You have the same people railing against increasing the minimum wage, while at the same time complaining that there are too many people on welfare. Maybe if businesses were responsible for paying their people a living wage, there wouldn't be as many people on the dole? And don't say, "if people don't like what they're being paid, they can just quit and go work somewhere else," because in many, many communities around the country, the lack of guardrails preventing large companies from squeezing out the competition has meant that there isn'twhere else to work. You can either work at the Wal-mart, the Home Depot, the Michael's, or one of the dozen fast-food restaurants in the same mall as the Wal-Mart and pay whatever pathetic wage they offer, or you can drive 40 miles to the next town. Problem is, you've got the same exact stores in the next town, and the exact same problems. Personally I think the perfect opportunity would have been when Pelosi, Reid and Obama held the reins. No excuse for not doing it then. I agree that you can't just quit and go elsewhere for the most part. Those without any kind of degree or specialty training are stuck at dead end jobs. Their only chance to see a little daylight is to move to where the cost of living is lower. Except most can't afford to relocate. Even then, the difference would be negligible at best. Sadly, even a few bucks an hour won't make enough difference to pull someone into lower middle class. It makes feeding the family easier, but probably little else. Of course the corporate solution for the increase in labor costs? Benefits cuts and layoffs. We're going in a big swirl right down the toilet. |
| 2016-06-16 3:52 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: What do you think? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 You can't really deny that the democrat party uses class disparity and race baiting to anger the masses. One of the pillars of the party platform is making successful people the boogeyman. The message being that success is only available to white males; it appeals to and angers the masses. Separately, I think this (what you've said above) is an example of listening to like-minded people telling you what people who disagree with you believe. The far right, and the GOP establishment would like to you believe that that is what the Democrats believe, but it isn't really the case. There are certainly a small group of fringe activists who want to burn down Wall Street and impose a true socialist government. Those people are no more representative of the Democratic or Progressive movement as a whole than the people on the right who want to impose Christian Sharia law represent the GOP or Conservatives. As usual, we only hear the people who shout the loudest, who drown out the majority of people in the middle with far more mainstream views. Even Bernie Sanders isn't a "true" socialist, he's a Democratic Socialist, which isn't the same thing. The structure he's proposing is still based on a capitalist economy, just one with guardrails in place that prevent big businesses from exploiting their workforce and crushing competition. Isn't that what everyone wants? "True" socialists reject Sanders' platform because it's based on a capitalist economy. Likewise, the Democratic party as a whole is not saying "successful people are the boogeyman" or "success is only available to white males". Again, that is the right wing telling you what Democrats think, instead of actually listening to them yourself and coming to your own decisions. There IS economic inequity in the US. That is undeniable. We can debate the causes and the extent of the disparity, but it exists, and is getting worse at an exponential rate. Even if you believe that there should be no guardrails in place to protect the poor and the middle class, the current progress is unsustainable. A smaller and smaller percentage of the population controls an ever-increasing percentage of the wealth, and with it comes control of government, the media, and an ability to stack the deck in their favor, eliminating competition from small business and putting increasing pressure on their workers to do more for less money or risk losing their jobs overseas. It's unreasonable to assume that that can continue indefinitely. I've heard you make some of the same arguments, I believe, about corporations outsourcing jobs and denying their American workforce the right to make a sustainable wage, while increasing profits to shareholders and executives. It's unfortunate that you're unable to look out from behind your "Democrat is Bad" barrier and see that you're largely saying the same thing. I think it is disgusting that you put Christian and Sharia law together. It is totally insulting and shows a lack of understanding of the Christian faith. Sorry you feel that way. More likely, your disgust represents your lack of understanding of what Sharia law is. Sharia law is simply the religious legal system that is based on the principles of Islam, which governs those that follow the Muslim faith. Or, put more simply, it is the belief that religious principles should dictate civil law. So, for example, when you have an elected representative who refuses to issue marriage certificates because her own religion forbids gay marriage, or when, for example, you have elected representatives trying to outlaw a medical procedure because it conflicts with their personal faith, that's really no different than what Sharia law is. Sad. |
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