General Discussion Triathlon Talk » USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE) Rss Feed  
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2016-09-17 11:51 AM

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Subject: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

First, read here:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/USAT_Members_Before_You_Vote_6018.html
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Proposed_changes_to_USAT_Bylaws_P6077747/?page=unread#unread

 

Basically USAT wants to gut all their oversight.  No more reporting meeting minutes, no more financial statements, etc.

https://www.directvote.net/usat/app/ExhibitB.pdf

scroll to the bottom for their Sunshine Policy.

 

When you get your USAT voting email, please don't ignore it this year.



2016-09-18 9:28 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Master
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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Thanks for posting.  These proposed changes which gut the transparency are dangerous.  Vote NO, and be sure to tell any USAT members that you know to also vote NO.  Spread the word however you can, Facebook, etc.

2016-09-19 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

I think Dan's point is OK.....oversight is good, but his vision of the sport is outdated. 

USAT still lags far behind USA swimming,m USA cycling, USATF, etc. in sport development.  There have been, however, huge gains in the last few years.  The biggest group of new triathletes are kids....and Youth and Jr. programs are exploding.  The bread and butter of USA swimming, cycling, track and field, etc. is at the youth/jr. club level.  Triathlon came into the fold a bit backward, with AG'ers making up the overwhelming majority (nearly all) of it's membership, while participation, much less growth, at the youth/Jr./club level was nearly non-existent.  This is an exactly polar opposite model of the highly successful governing bodies of our other amateur sports governing bodies and wholy unsustainable.....as the drop in the number of AG'ers shows.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-09-19 12:31 PM
2016-09-19 12:49 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)
I kind of see your point LB, with the massive youth development program in USA swimming creating a very successful program. I might disagree with T&F which relies heavily on high school/college programs; don't see that happening in Tri. And well, cycling, not sure there program is that successful.

The only problem with matching the success of USA swimming is I don't seem room to squeeze a sport like Tri into the already crowded field of youth sports in a big way, although USATri has done and admirable job with the youth program they have. I think we will always have to rely more heavily on the AG'er than most other sports.
2016-09-19 1:05 PM
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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by buck1400 I kind of see your point LB, with the massive youth development program in USA swimming creating a very successful program. I might disagree with T&F which relies heavily on high school/college programs; don't see that happening in Tri. And well, cycling, not sure there program is that successful. The only problem with matching the success of USA swimming is I don't seem room to squeeze a sport like Tri into the already crowded field of youth sports in a big way, although USATri has done and admirable job with the youth program they have. I think we will always have to rely more heavily on the AG'er than most other sports.

I have been involved with triathlon in some way, sometimes off and on, since the mid 80's.  What's happening now in youth/jr. triathlon is unprecedented and a much bigger wave then people who aren't involved realize. 

I understand your view as well, but the simple fact is that triathlon in the U.S. is not sustainable on any kind of worldwide competitive field if it's largest support (AND VOICE)is from AG racers who really don't care much about the sport past their own results/goals.  The fact of the matter is, the OVERWHELMING majority of those people are gone once their personal goal is met......and for most of them it's one and done......a few seasons worth at most.

USAT is on the right path for growth.......and my guess is they want some autonomy from what HAS BEEN the bread and butter (dwindling as it is)as they move the organization forward and toward a more sustainable model.

There is certainly sti9ll room for both sides in the discussion of where triathlon in the U.S. should go......but AG'ers will need to get used to the idea that their voice is getting, and will continue to get, smaller.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-09-19 1:07 PM
2016-09-19 2:25 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by buck1400 I kind of see your point LB, with the massive youth development program in USA swimming creating a very successful program. I might disagree with T&F which relies heavily on high school/college programs; don't see that happening in Tri. And well, cycling, not sure there program is that successful. The only problem with matching the success of USA swimming is I don't seem room to squeeze a sport like Tri into the already crowded field of youth sports in a big way, although USATri has done and admirable job with the youth program they have. I think we will always have to rely more heavily on the AG'er than most other sports.

I have been involved with triathlon in some way, sometimes off and on, since the mid 80's.  What's happening now in youth/jr. triathlon is unprecedented and a much bigger wave then people who aren't involved realize. 

I understand your view as well, but the simple fact is that triathlon in the U.S. is not sustainable on any kind of worldwide competitive field if it's largest support (AND VOICE)is from AG racers who really don't care much about the sport past their own results/goals.  The fact of the matter is, the OVERWHELMING majority of those people are gone once their personal goal is met......and for most of them it's one and done......a few seasons worth at most.

USAT is on the right path for growth.......and my guess is they want some autonomy from what HAS BEEN the bread and butter (dwindling as it is)as they move the organization forward and toward a more sustainable model.

There is certainly sti9ll room for both sides in the discussion of where triathlon in the U.S. should go......but AG'ers will need to get used to the idea that their voice is getting, and will continue to get, smaller.

And... nothing you wrote, LB, has much to do with what I posted.

I have no problem with them making changes to support growth at the youth / developmental level.  But they can maintain transparency while doing that.  And sorry, but kids aren't going to be the ones paying into the system.  It's going to be adults one way or another -- either us AGers, or parents of kids in the programs you are talking about, or both.  In EITHER case, you should vote.

 

Edit: also, btw, the one-and-done folks you mention usually buy a 1-day license and aren't voting members.



Edited by spudone 2016-09-19 2:27 PM


2016-09-19 2:42 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by buck1400 I kind of see your point LB, with the massive youth development program in USA swimming creating a very successful program. I might disagree with T&F which relies heavily on high school/college programs; don't see that happening in Tri. And well, cycling, not sure there program is that successful. The only problem with matching the success of USA swimming is I don't seem room to squeeze a sport like Tri into the already crowded field of youth sports in a big way, although USATri has done and admirable job with the youth program they have. I think we will always have to rely more heavily on the AG'er than most other sports.

I have been involved with triathlon in some way, sometimes off and on, since the mid 80's.  What's happening now in youth/jr. triathlon is unprecedented and a much bigger wave then people who aren't involved realize. 

I understand your view as well, but the simple fact is that triathlon in the U.S. is not sustainable on any kind of worldwide competitive field if it's largest support (AND VOICE)is from AG racers who really don't care much about the sport past their own results/goals.  The fact of the matter is, the OVERWHELMING majority of those people are gone once their personal goal is met......and for most of them it's one and done......a few seasons worth at most.

USAT is on the right path for growth.......and my guess is they want some autonomy from what HAS BEEN the bread and butter (dwindling as it is)as they move the organization forward and toward a more sustainable model.

There is certainly sti9ll room for both sides in the discussion of where triathlon in the U.S. should go......but AG'ers will need to get used to the idea that their voice is getting, and will continue to get, smaller.

And... nothing you wrote, LB, has much to do with what I posted.

I have no problem with them making changes to support growth at the youth / developmental level.  But they can maintain transparency while doing that.  And sorry, but kids aren't going to be the ones paying into the system.  It's going to be adults one way or another -- either us AGers, or parents of kids in the programs you are talking about, or both.  In EITHER case, you should vote.

 

Edit: also, btw, the one-and-done folks you mention usually buy a 1-day license and aren't voting members.

Uh.....well, I wrote that the reason they want autonomy  is so that they (AG'ers) have a smaller voice....or no voice.  Not a bad idea.  I figured you could get that out of what I wrote without me telling you how I think you should vote.  The same way I got the idea how you think we should vote because of the article you referenced. (and let's face it......virtually nobody votes, you know that)  The idea that members should have a say in the organization is old and tired......and doesn't work to grow the sport.

And no.....I wasn't talking about people who buy one day licenses....I was talking about the people who buy a regular license and are out of the sport about as fast as they got in.....you know, the majority.  It's not like a license is a big expense. LOL

2016-09-19 2:49 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by Left Brain

Uh.....well, I wrote that the reason they want autonomy  is so that they (AG'ers) have a smaller voice....or no voice.  Not a bad idea.  I figured you could get that out of what I wrote without me telling you how I think you should vote.  The same way I got the idea how you think we should vote because of the article you referenced. (and let's face it......virtually nobody votes, you know that)  The idea that members should have a say in the organization is old and tired......and doesn't work to grow the sport.

And no.....I wasn't talking about people who buy one day licenses....I was talking about the people who buy a regular license and are out of the sport about as fast as they got in.....you know, the majority.  It's not like a license is a big expense. LOL

Well once again, SOMEONE in the organization will be voting.  If the AG role diminishes over time, fine.  But whoever IS voting should be very concerned when they want to suddenly hide away everything the corporation does.

Is USAT's sunshine policy burdensome?  Good.  They did a good thing writing that in the first place.  You only have to look to USA Cycling to see what kind of corruption can happen when an organization runs without enough oversight (edit: although USAC *does* have voting membership - there is no visibility into what they do as a corporation).

If this is just your normal Monday trolling, then ok, you got me :p



Edited by spudone 2016-09-19 2:53 PM
2016-09-19 2:59 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Left Brain

Uh.....well, I wrote that the reason they want autonomy  is so that they (AG'ers) have a smaller voice....or no voice.  Not a bad idea.  I figured you could get that out of what I wrote without me telling you how I think you should vote.  The same way I got the idea how you think we should vote because of the article you referenced. (and let's face it......virtually nobody votes, you know that)  The idea that members should have a say in the organization is old and tired......and doesn't work to grow the sport.

And no.....I wasn't talking about people who buy one day licenses....I was talking about the people who buy a regular license and are out of the sport about as fast as they got in.....you know, the majority.  It's not like a license is a big expense. LOL

Well once again, SOMEONE in the organization will be voting.  If the AG role diminishes over time, fine.  But whoever IS voting should be very concerned when they want to suddenly hide away everything the corporation does.

Is USAT's sunshine policy burdensome?  Good.  They did a good thing writing that in the first place.  You only have to look to USA Cycling to see what kind of corruption can happen when an organization runs without enough oversight (edit: although USAC *does* have voting membership - there is no visibility into what they do as a corporation).

If this is just your normal Monday trolling, then ok, you got me :p

Nah, I'm not trolling you. (but it's a fun discussion and I can see your side too) I want less AGer involvement in USAT decisions at every level.......and this is a good way to start.  There is nothing in the revised policy that automatically spells corruption.  You mentioned US cycling.....where's the corruption in USA swimming, rowing, waterpolo, and on and on.  The #1 goal of these organizations SHOULD be the growth of the sport to a level where your country is competitive on an international level.  Pay your dues and let the board do it's job.....that's why you elect them.  The AGer's goal has very little, IF ANYTHING, to do with growing the sport and getting competitive as a country on the world stage.

2016-09-19 3:55 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

It's funny how little standardization there is across orgs in the U.S.  And yeah I had to read way more legalese than is generally healthy:

USAT currently has direct voting members and its "Sunshine Policy" is one of the most open out there.
USAC has voting members but very little transparency.  Their meetings are open by default but the board can vote to close them.
USA Swimming has a delegate structure instead of voting members.  But they do have annual financial audits posted on their website.
USA Water Polo members vote for regional representatives who then vote on the actual issues.

make what you will of that.

2016-09-19 4:03 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: USAT bylaws (PLEASE VOTE)

Originally posted by spudone

It's funny how little standardization there is across orgs in the U.S.  And yeah I had to read way more legalese than is generally healthy:

USAT currently has direct voting members and its "Sunshine Policy" is one of the most open out there.
USAC has voting members but very little transparency.  Their meetings are open by default but the board can vote to close them.
USA Swimming has a delegate structure instead of voting members.  But they do have annual financial audits posted on their website.
USA Water Polo members vote for regional representatives who then vote on the actual issues.

make what you will of that.

Unfortunately.....since I have paid for WAY more organization dues then I ever intended because of my kids......I'm somewhat familiar with the "workings" of USA triathlon, swimming, cycling, track and field, water polo, equestrian.....and I see climbing in the near future.  I've paid my share for sure. LOL  That doesn't stop me from not wanting AGer's to have a vote on anything triathlon related with the exception of vetted board members.



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