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2016-11-30 9:56 AM

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Subject: Minimum Wage
So people are protesting again for $15/hr minimum wage. I question where is this additional money gonna come from? Will business just accept making less money? LOL Not a chance. They did not work 16 hrs a day to build their franchise to accept 2% return on their investment! Consumers will pay more for goods and services. So you might make $15/hr but the cost of everything is going up!

Get an education, learn a skill....make yourself more valuable to employers. Learn to do something that not everyone/anyone can do. I can't drive a backhoe. My welding mantra is 'the bigger the wad the better the weld'. When I was 15 years old I got a job bagging groceries at a local grocery store. I made minimum wage of $2.75/hr. In a few years I had worked my way up to 'stockman' and got to unload the trucks, price mark the goods and put them on the shelf and I made $3.25 an hour.

I guess I have no problem mandating higher wages....but it's a red herring. It will simply drive inflation and everything will cost more....everything.



2016-11-30 10:25 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Originally posted by Rogillio

So people are protesting again for $15/hr minimum wage. I question where is this additional money gonna come from? Will business just accept making less money? LOL Not a chance. They did not work 16 hrs a day to build their franchise to accept 2% return on their investment! Consumers will pay more for goods and services. So you might make $15/hr but the cost of everything is going up!

Get an education, learn a skill....make yourself more valuable to employers. Learn to do something that not everyone/anyone can do. I can't drive a backhoe. My welding mantra is 'the bigger the wad the better the weld'. When I was 15 years old I got a job bagging groceries at a local grocery store. I made minimum wage of $2.75/hr. In a few years I had worked my way up to 'stockman' and got to unload the trucks, price mark the goods and put them on the shelf and I made $3.25 an hour.

I guess I have no problem mandating higher wages....but it's a red herring. It will simply drive inflation and everything will cost more....everything.




The problem is, when you have a company like Wal-Mart or whoever paying its employees a wage that they can't realistically live on, the taxpayer (you and I) end up footing the bill to make up the difference. A single mom who is only qualified to work as a cashier at Wal-Mart, and who earns, say, $9.00/hr can't possibly support herself and her kids, no matter how modestly, on that salary. So she has no choice but to supplement her income with welfare, food stamps, free school lunches, etc. which we all end up paying for in the form of higher taxes. We're effectively subsidizing a multi-billion dollar company, and allowing it to reap the profits of underpaying its workforce. Paying people a living wage won't mean they'll all start buying Cadillacs. What it may mean is that they won't have to rely on public assistance anymore to make rent and buy food.

The alternative to taking all this government assistance is to work a second (or third) job, and if you do that, when are you supposed have the time to get an education and learn a skill to make yourself more marketable?

It's easy to point fingers at the lazy worker who wants the handout, but you can't ignore that part of the problem are the companies that deliberately underpay their workers, knowing that the government will pick up the rest of the bill. I would argue that if you can't run your business without paying your people a living wage for their efforts, you shouldn't be in business in the first place.
2016-11-30 10:40 AM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by Rogillio

So people are protesting again for $15/hr minimum wage. I question where is this additional money gonna come from? Will business just accept making less money? LOL Not a chance. They did not work 16 hrs a day to build their franchise to accept 2% return on their investment! Consumers will pay more for goods and services. So you might make $15/hr but the cost of everything is going up!

Get an education, learn a skill....make yourself more valuable to employers. Learn to do something that not everyone/anyone can do. I can't drive a backhoe. My welding mantra is 'the bigger the wad the better the weld'. When I was 15 years old I got a job bagging groceries at a local grocery store. I made minimum wage of $2.75/hr. In a few years I had worked my way up to 'stockman' and got to unload the trucks, price mark the goods and put them on the shelf and I made $3.25 an hour.

I guess I have no problem mandating higher wages....but it's a red herring. It will simply drive inflation and everything will cost more....everything.




The problem is, when you have a company like Wal-Mart or whoever paying its employees a wage that they can't realistically live on, the taxpayer (you and I) end up footing the bill to make up the difference. A single mom who is only qualified to work as a cashier at Wal-Mart, and who earns, say, $9.00/hr can't possibly support herself and her kids, no matter how modestly, on that salary. So she has no choice but to supplement her income with welfare, food stamps, free school lunches, etc. which we all end up paying for in the form of higher taxes. We're effectively subsidizing a multi-billion dollar company, and allowing it to reap the profits of underpaying its workforce. Paying people a living wage won't mean they'll all start buying Cadillacs. What it may mean is that they won't have to rely on public assistance anymore to make rent and buy food.

The alternative to taking all this government assistance is to work a second (or third) job, and if you do that, when are you supposed have the time to get an education and learn a skill to make yourself more marketable?

It's easy to point fingers at the lazy worker who wants the handout, but you can't ignore that part of the problem are the companies that deliberately underpay their workers, knowing that the government will pick up the rest of the bill. I would argue that if you can't run your business without paying your people a living wage for their efforts, you shouldn't be in business in the first place.



I've always read Walmart was good company to work for. I found this:

"The first round came last April. It increased the pay of 500,000 Walmart workers to at least $9 per hour. After that took effect, Walmart said its average hourly rates were "about" $13 for full-time employees and $10 for part-time."

I know they also have employee stock plan and offer education tuition assistance. There is a huge turn over at Walmart. Kid gets hired on as a cahier when he is 17...then at 18 he quits and goes off to college. How do you separate 'kids' trying to break into the workplace and a working mother trying to make a career out of being a cashier? For that matter, why should Walmart make being a cashier a 'career' position when they can hire 18 yo kids with zero work experience to be a cashier. Walmart already replaced 16 cash register positions at our super Walmart with DIY scanner. Krogers is doing the same thing!

Here's a thought......what if they made minimum wage seniority based? You hire on at $7.25.....after a year you are gaurenteed an increase to $8. After 5 years you will make $10/hr.

The obvious flaw with my plan is companies would just lay you off at 4.5 years.

2016-11-30 7:21 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Rogillio So people are protesting again for $15/hr minimum wage. I question where is this additional money gonna come from? Will business just accept making less money? LOL Not a chance. They did not work 16 hrs a day to build their franchise to accept 2% return on their investment! Consumers will pay more for goods and services. So you might make $15/hr but the cost of everything is going up! Get an education, learn a skill....make yourself more valuable to employers. Learn to do something that not everyone/anyone can do. I can't drive a backhoe. My welding mantra is 'the bigger the wad the better the weld'. When I was 15 years old I got a job bagging groceries at a local grocery store. I made minimum wage of $2.75/hr. In a few years I had worked my way up to 'stockman' and got to unload the trucks, price mark the goods and put them on the shelf and I made $3.25 an hour. I guess I have no problem mandating higher wages....but it's a red herring. It will simply drive inflation and everything will cost more....everything.
The problem is, when you have a company like Wal-Mart or whoever paying its employees a wage that they can't realistically live on, the taxpayer (you and I) end up footing the bill to make up the difference. A single mom who is only qualified to work as a cashier at Wal-Mart, and who earns, say, $9.00/hr can't possibly support herself and her kids, no matter how modestly, on that salary. So she has no choice but to supplement her income with welfare, food stamps, free school lunches, etc. which we all end up paying for in the form of higher taxes. We're effectively subsidizing a multi-billion dollar company, and allowing it to reap the profits of underpaying its workforce. Paying people a living wage won't mean they'll all start buying Cadillacs. What it may mean is that they won't have to rely on public assistance anymore to make rent and buy food. The alternative to taking all this government assistance is to work a second (or third) job, and if you do that, when are you supposed have the time to get an education and learn a skill to make yourself more marketable? It's easy to point fingers at the lazy worker who wants the handout, but you can't ignore that part of the problem are the companies that deliberately underpay their workers, knowing that the government will pick up the rest of the bill. I would argue that if you can't run your business without paying your people a living wage for their efforts, you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

The problem is this thing called economics that has certain laws that don't change.  The market always balances itself out no matter what the wage is.  Lets not raise it to $15/hr. lets raise it to $100/hr.  I mean, everybody can live on that wage right?  Oh wait, what happens to the economy if every employee at every company has to make $100 mandated by law?  I'm being facetious of course, but it's easier to see the effects when you make the numbers bigger.
Not a single person in america is underpaid.  Not a single one (ok, maybe prisoners).  The reason is the only way to be under paid is you have to be forced against your will to work at a wage you feel is too low.  Every worker accepts the pay they are being paid in exchange for their services.  If I'm getting paid $10/hr. and somebody else is willing to do the same work for $8/hr then I'm being over paid by $2/hr.
It's not about what's a living wage or any of that garbage, because you can't make every job a living wage job.  Kids shoveling driveways in the winter don't need to earn a living wage.  Somebody mowing a lawn does not need to earn a living wage, somebody bagging groceries does not need to earn a living wage. 
I most certainly don't subscribe that people living at minimum wage jobs are lazy, in fact many are very hard workers.  The problem is our politicians and society who convinces people that their only answer is more government to force the evil employers to pay them more money.  It's typical politics; vilify, divide, and control.

Lets look at the "minimum wage worker":

According to the BLS there are 1.6M people paid minimum wage and half of those are teenagers and young adults.  Even among teenagers only 21% earn minimum wage or less and for those over 25 only 3% are paid minimum wage. 

In a nutshell it doesn't matter what you make the minimum wage because it won't make a difference.  It just brings the bottom up for everyone and the same people who were on the bottom are still on the bottom no matter what the bottom is.  The achievers will keep on achieving and the bottom will stay on the bottom.
Where it gets tough for employers is when you have municipalities like in Seattle that force minimum wage of $15, but everybody just a few miles away doesn't have to pay it.  It destroys the supply/demand curve because it makes it impossible for the higher wage mandated employers to hire the high school kids for peanuts while all their competitors can.

The whole minimum wage is just another boogie man politicians use with fear tactics "the poor people need to make a living wage" to convince you to vote for them and keep them in power.  See, you wouldn't make a "living wage" if you didn't vote for me.

2016-11-30 8:14 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage

Just saw this in a FB response to somebody, lol:

2016-11-30 8:27 PM
in reply to: 0

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Pro
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50005000500010025
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
I got my first job in 1974....I was 14. I rode my bike up to the restaurant at the local golf club and washed dishes during the lunch time for minimum wage....1.90/hour. Among my friends I was the richest kid in the neighborhood that summer. I wish I was still 14 working there....I was the Donald Trump of baseball card collectors.....easily in the top 1%....wealthiest I've ever been. Now I'm sitting here making 35/hr watching an electric substation because my kids want Apple Watches for xmas......I can't have nothing. LOL

Edited by Left Brain 2016-11-30 8:31 PM


2016-11-30 9:11 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Master
3127
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Sunny Southern Cal
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage

Originally posted by Left Brain I got my first job in 1974....I was 14. I rode my bike up to the restaurant at the local golf club and washed dishes during the lunch time for minimum wage....1.90/hour. Among my friends I was the richest kid in the neighborhood that summer. I wish I was still 14 working there....I was the Donald Trump of baseball card collectors.....easily in the top 1%....wealthiest I've ever been. Now I'm sitting here making 35/hr watching an electric substation because my kids want Apple Watches for xmas......I can't have nothing. LOL

If your kids want those Apple Watches badly enough, you could pay them $1.90/hour to watch that electric substation for you, pocket the difference and spend the extra time with your old baseball card collection.

2016-11-30 9:13 PM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Originally posted by SevenZulu

Originally posted by Left Brain I got my first job in 1974....I was 14. I rode my bike up to the restaurant at the local golf club and washed dishes during the lunch time for minimum wage....1.90/hour. Among my friends I was the richest kid in the neighborhood that summer. I wish I was still 14 working there....I was the Donald Trump of baseball card collectors.....easily in the top 1%....wealthiest I've ever been. Now I'm sitting here making 35/hr watching an electric substation because my kids want Apple Watches for xmas......I can't have nothing. LOL

If your kids want those Apple Watches badly enough, you could pay them $1.90/hour to watch that electric substation for you, pocket the difference and spend the extra time with your old baseball card collection.

Dammit boy!! You're on to something there....I just don't think like a rich guy I guess.
2016-11-30 9:26 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Now you got me thinking....I could pay them 15.00 an hour (an actual living wage) to break into this dump, catch them in the act, and demand 50.00/hr for the next shift I sit here reading a book because its so damn dangerous. I could get all new baseball cards!! (Now I probably jinxed myself and I'll get overran by a bunch of dumbarses trying to electrocute themselves over some copper to sell)

Edited by Left Brain 2016-11-30 9:37 PM
2016-12-01 9:43 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Originally posted by Left Brain

I got my first job in 1974....I was 14. I rode my bike up to the restaurant at the local golf club and washed dishes during the lunch time for minimum wage....1.90/hour. Among my friends I was the richest kid in the neighborhood that summer. I wish I was still 14 working there....I was the Donald Trump of baseball card collectors.....easily in the top 1%....wealthiest I've ever been. Now I'm sitting here making 35/hr watching an electric substation because my kids want Apple Watches for xmas......I can't have nothing. LOL


My first job was selling newspapers. I found that for a quarter I could take all the news papers out of the newspaper machine and then stand in from the grocery store selling them! I was making a killing till someone told my mom and I got the crap beat out of me.

But my first job was painting mail box flags. I found a 1/2 pint can of bright red paint in the garage. I walked around the neighborhood offering to paint people's mailbox flag for 50 cents. I made several dollars. One guy gave me 50 cents and told me not to go anywhere near his mailbox with my can of paint.

I've worked at grocery stores, Walmart, a janitor in a drug store, delivered Dominos pizza, mowed green and fairways at gold course, worked on golf carts at a country club, worked as roofer for my stepdad nailing down asphalt shingles in FL in 110 degree weather, when I was 17 I joined the Army national guard and went to basic trailing between my junior and senior years of HS. I went on to server 11 years in the LA guard, KS guard and Army Reserves. I have had a least one job from the time I was 15 till now.....almost 40 years and have never been without a job, ever. In 1987 I took an engineering job at Boeing for $28,000 and have worked in this industry for 30 years....I make 5 1/2 times that now....but about half of that increase is inflation.



2016-12-02 7:49 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
The Earned Income Tax Credit is a much better option than raising minimum wage to unreasonable levels. We can use it to target those that require more than minimum wage. We can set it so that people are encouraged to work harder, because they will receive more than the minimum (their wage + EITC).


2016-12-08 2:41 PM
in reply to: jmcconne

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Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Well, I guess we can put this issue to bed once and for all....

"President-elect Donald Trump is expected to name fast-food executive Andrew Puzder, a vocal critic of substantially increasing the minimum wage and an opponent of rules that would make more workers eligible for overtime pay, as head of the Labor Department, according to a Republican briefed on the decision.

Puzder, who runs CKE Restaurants, the parent company of Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr., has been a harsh critic of raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour, arguing that it would increase costs for consumers and lead to fewer jobs. He also opposes the recently-delayed Labor Department rule that aimed to make millions more workers eligible for overtime pay."
2016-12-09 7:49 AM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Well, I guess we can put this issue to bed once and for all....

"President-elect Donald Trump is expected to name fast-food executive Andrew Puzder, a vocal critic of substantially increasing the minimum wage and an opponent of rules that would make more workers eligible for overtime pay, as head of the Labor Department, according to a Republican briefed on the decision.

Puzder, who runs CKE Restaurants, the parent company of Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr., has been a harsh critic of raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour, arguing that it would increase costs for consumers and lead to fewer jobs. He also opposes the recently-delayed Labor Department rule that aimed to make millions more workers eligible for overtime pay."



A federal minimum wage make no sense at all. If you live in my hometown of Winnfield, LA you can buy a decent house for $75k. Same house in LA or SF would cost your $500k. Rent in NYC would run you $1000 a month for a 1BR flat. You can live pretty high on the hog in my hometown if you made $15/hr. $15/hr is about $31k/year. The average teacher salary in Alabama is $36,000. That is average! These are people with 4 year degrees!

States and/or cities ought to determine the minimum wage.

Puzder said that increasing the minimum wage in the restaurant business will drive restaurant towards automation. You already see this at MD. I noticed the other day at the drive thru the drinks are done autonomously. Once the order is place the right sized cup drops down and then the appropriate amount of ice and beverage is put into the cup...then a lid drops down. In grocery stores you see more and more self check outs. That is a teller and a bagger you just fired and replaced with a computer scanner.

2016-12-09 9:38 AM
in reply to: 0

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Maryland
Subject: RE: Minimum Wage

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Well, I guess we can put this issue to bed once and for all.... "President-elect Donald Trump is expected to name fast-food executive Andrew Puzder, a vocal critic of substantially increasing the minimum wage and an opponent of rules that would make more workers eligible for overtime pay, as head of the Labor Department, according to a Republican briefed on the decision. Puzder, who runs CKE Restaurants, the parent company of Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr., has been a harsh critic of raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour, arguing that it would increase costs for consumers and lead to fewer jobs. He also opposes the recently-delayed Labor Department rule that aimed to make millions more workers eligible for overtime pay."
A federal minimum wage make no sense at all. If you live in my hometown of Winnfield, LA you can buy a decent house for $75k. Same house in LA or SF would cost your $500k. Rent in NYC would run you $1000 a month for a 1BR flat. You can live pretty high on the hog in my hometown if you made $15/hr. $15/hr is about $31k/year. The average teacher salary in Alabama is $36,000. That is average! These are people with 4 year degrees! States and/or cities ought to determine the minimum wage. Puzder said that increasing the minimum wage in the restaurant business will drive restaurant towards automation. You already see this at MD. I noticed the other day at the drive thru the drinks are done autonomously. Once the order is place the right sized cup drops down and then the appropriate amount of ice and beverage is put into the cup...then a lid drops down. In grocery stores you see more and more self check outs. That is a teller and a bagger you just fired and replaced with a computer scanner.

I agree here.  A federal minimum wage should either be the baseline for the least affluent area, or be location adjusted like the federal pay scale.  $15 in bumF is NOT $15/hour in Washington DC, San Francisco, or NY City.

ETA: I believe this is where much of the divides in the country stem from.  Living in DC my healthcare costs aren't so bad, living in the middle of nowhere Nebraska the same costs constitute a much larger portion of my income.  Living in DC hearing $7.25 an hour I say, it is literally impossible for someone to live on this, how can people be against increasing the wage??? Living in bumF Missouri someone says, $15/hour??? you can't make everyone wealthy for picking fruit!?!



Edited by dmiller5 2016-12-09 9:52 AM
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