General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Improving run Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2017-08-07 1:20 AM


471
1001001001002525
Subject: Improving run
The run is my weakest leg and I'd like to improve that for the start of next season (November). I'm keen to hear what others did to improve their run and what gains they had. A recent 70.3 result was May (29/2.25/1.40) Swim was long and run was warmish - 85F. Typical weekly run mileage was 26 - 30 miles a week. I've now (as of last month) bumped that up to 45 - 50 miles a week, running most days and comprising:

1 long, easy run = 12 miles
2 x 7 mile easy -mod treadmill runs
1 x 7 - 9 mile tempo run
1 x intervals e.g 15 x 400m
1 easy recovery run, varies in pace and distance, around 7, 8 miles

Run times as of May 2017:

5km - 20.20
10km - 41.50
HM - 1.34
HIM run - 1.40

I'd like to be running my HM under 1.30 and also sub 20/40 for 5 and 10km. HIM run I'd like to get to low 1.30s. Am I on the right track? Is the volume OK?


2017-08-07 7:58 AM
in reply to: zedzded

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Improving run

Seems like this is doing a good job getting in some miles quite regularly. How well do those race times represent your current fitness? If you've been running this for month, you've probably improved some. Also, how much are you trying to keep up with swimming & biking during this time? More just maintenance or pretty regular?

The long run is good size for that total.

The 2x7 would consider backing off a little to just easy. You already have 2 hard runs and the long one tends to counts as hard by distance even though it isn't pushing the upper aerobic area.

Is 7-9 the length of the entire run? That'd be huge for a tempo distance, but probably fine if the faster part of it is 4-5 miles or so. How hard is this being run? I tend to look at Daniels VDOT to assist in pace determination. The previous stand alone events would be about 49, for a pace of almost 7/mile. A little slower is fine too, particularly if this is more like 30 minutes or more than 20 to complete.

Is the 15x400 the only interval set being run? For the type of work you'd probably want, 400's would be more introductory to it, but that's a lot of them for it. At your speed, 800-1200's should put you in 3-5' per interval. Total work time of 15-20 tends to be good. Maybe a little more with decent mileage being handled well for some time. Recovery about the same as work time.

Asking again here about the amount being done, are you almost becoming a runner at this point? Two higher intensity workouts (tempo at moderate still counts) tends to be quite a bit for a triathlete. One decent one can still do a lot. Also looking at doing the same hard workouts all the time. Are those just examples?

Any strides on the easy days?

2017-08-07 8:50 AM
in reply to: brigby1

User image

Pro
15488
500050005000100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Improving run

How old are you, what's your ht and wt, what's your running background (were you a runner as a youngster and faster than you are now?)

2017-08-07 10:14 AM
in reply to: 0

User image


1125
100010025
McAlester, Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by zedzded The run is my weakest leg and I'd like to improve that for the start of next season (November). I'm keen to hear what others did to improve their run and what gains they had. A recent 70.3 result was May (29/2.25/1.40) Swim was long and run was warmish - 85F. Typical weekly run mileage was 26 - 30 miles a week. I've now (as of last month) bumped that up to 45 - 50 miles a week, running most days and comprising: 1 long, easy run = 12 miles 2 x 7 mile easy -mod treadmill runs 1 x 7 - 9 mile tempo run 1 x intervals e.g 15 x 400m 1 easy recovery run, varies in pace and distance, around 7, 8 miles Run times as of May 2017: 5km - 20.20 10km - 41.50 HM - 1.34 HIM run - 1.40 I'd like to be running my HM under 1.30 and also sub 20/40 for 5 and 10km. HIM run I'd like to get to low 1.30s. Am I on the right track? Is the volume OK?

 

I was a competitive AG runner for 30 years before I switched over to Triathlon.  As a pure runner my typical week would be about 40 miles.  

I would do a speed work day every week (i.e. 10 x 400m, or 1000's, etc).  

I was supposed to do one tempo run every week, but they often were paced too slow to achieve that.

I would do one long run every week which was typically 12-18 miles.  The other days I would do 5-6 miles at an easy pace.

 

My 5K time was around an 18:10.

My half marathon time was 1:24:00

 

When I started to do triathlons (at the 70.3 distance).  I went to three days of running.  I dropped my tempo run and made it an easy 4-5 mile run.  I dropped my long runs to 10-16 miles. My weekly total was around 25 miles a week.  My run time in my first two 70.3's were both just seconds over 2 hours.  The first race I told myself 3 miles into the run when I was at my physical limits to just go under 2 hours and call it good.  I did about the same thing in the 2nd race which was a lot harder run than the first race. So I did not run well off the bike.

Two weeks after my first 70.3 I did a local 5K.  It was my first one that I had done since starting my triathlon training 9 months earlier.  The interesting thing is that I ran fast than I had done over 6 years of run focus at 40 MPW.  I did a 17:52 5K  So...the reduced run miles and the focus on endurance rather than speed actually made me a faster pure runner.  I attribute it to the cross training and reduced stress from less running.

But...my triathlon running was still not under control.  The factor holding me back was probably fatigue from the Swim and Bike Legs.  My first two 70.3 both had very difficult bike courses.  I felt like I was going slow for the first 30 miles, but by mile 40 I was starting to feel tired and by the time I got off the bike I was pretty spent.    So this year I did things differently.  1) I dropped from the 70.3 distance to the Olympic distance (even though I have a 70.3 I am going to be doing in 6 weeks for a B race). 2) I started to do a lot more speed work and tempo work.

My week this year looked more like this

1) 10 min warm up + 3 x 1600m @ 6:10 pace w/ 400m recovery interval and 10 minute cool down

2) 6 mile tempo run at 6:45 min/mi pace (with the first mile usually a bit slower to warm up but sometimes I would just go straight into things).

3) 8-12 mile long run at 7:20-7:30 min/mil pace

At my Olympic triathlon the bike was fast and fun unlike the slow and taxing of the 70.3.  I was 15 minutes under my goal on the bike.  My run time was 2-1/2 minutes slower than my goals so it wasn't a really fast run, but my bike rank was number 9 over all if I remember correctly and my run rank was number 7 over all (it would have been #1 if I had hit my run goal).  My open 5K times have been slower since the new plan then they were under the old plan so the biggest factor in my better run is that I got tot he run fresher in the shorter race.  I will see how the run goes in my 70.3 in 6 weeks.  I think I am starting to peak on the bike so my increased bike fitness is also probably getting me to the start of the run fresher.  

 

So...this year I have tried doing a ton more speed work and a lot fewer slow easy miles.  So far I have been happy with the way things have progresses but until I can do 70.3 run in under 2 hours I haven't really proven that I have any improvement.  I was afraid to break away from what i had been doing to try something different.  I did it and it hasn't seemed to hurt anything.  I think that if you have hit a plateau that trying something different is good. It may not be that the new plan is any better than the old plan but it focuses on different things which can keep you progressing where sticking with the same tried and true plan over and over again kind of goes with the adage that if you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always got. 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2017-08-07 10:25 AM
2017-08-07 7:55 PM
in reply to: brigby1


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by brigby1

Seems like this is doing a good job getting in some miles quite regularly. How well do those race times represent your current fitness?



I'd probably be slightly quicker, it's hard to know, I guess I should do a 3km TT at some point.

Originally posted by brigby1
Also, how much are you trying to keep up with swimming & biking during this time? More just maintenance or pretty regular?

Seems like this is doing a good job getting in some miles quite regularly. How well do those race times represent your current fitness?



Just for maintenance, I have swim background so can get away with not swimming that much in the off season and I seem to bike well off few miles. Running is the one thing that suffers if I don't do enough of it.

The long run is good size for that total.

The 2x7 would consider backing off a little to just easy. You already have 2 hard runs and the long one tends to counts as hard by distance even though it isn't pushing the upper aerobic area.

Is 7-9 the length of the entire run? That'd be huge for a tempo distance, but probably fine if the faster part of it is 4-5 miles or so. How hard is this being run?

Yeah I normally do a warmup and cool down, so fast stuff is about 3 - 4 miles, this is about 10km race pace

Originally posted by brigby1
I tend to look at Daniels VDOT to assist in pace determination. The previous stand alone events would be about 49, for a pace of almost 7/mile. A little slower is fine too, particularly if this is more like 30 minutes or more than 20 to complete.

Is the 15x400 the only interval set being run? For the type of work you'd probably want, 400's would be more introductory to it, but that's a lot of them for it. At your speed, 800-1200's should put you in 3-5' per interval. Total work time of 15-20 tends to be good. Maybe a little more with decent mileage being handled well for some time. Recovery about the same as work time.

Asking again here about the amount being done, are you almost becoming a runner at this point? Two higher intensity workouts (tempo at moderate still counts) tends to be quite a bit for a triathlete. One decent one can still do a lot. Also looking at doing the same hard workouts all the time. Are those just examples?

Any strides on the easy days?




What do you mean am a almost becoming a runner? Because of the volume? My next big race is a 70.3 in december and want to do well in that, but running needs to get sorted out, not a problem if I ease back on the swim and bike for the time being, but I will start doing both more in a few weeks when I join a 70.3 squad for the 12 week program.

Most of my running is easy running, I've had a few injuries in the past so am conscious of pushing too hard especially now I've doubled my mileage.
2017-08-07 7:58 PM
in reply to: 0


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by Left Brain

How old are you, what's your ht and wt, what's your running background (were you a runner as a youngster and faster than you are now?)




45
5'7
165 pounds

I spent 20 years playing rugby and lifting weights, so am quite stocky, not an ideal build for a runner, but am aiming to lose 10 pounds,

I've always ran, track at school in summer and cross-country (not a good level though), then fun runs as an adult, nothing too serious and rugby. But I've never really focused on running and never had a high run volume.

Edited by zedzded 2017-08-07 7:58 PM


2017-08-08 5:47 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
5534
500050025
Subject: RE: Improving run
I think your goal is to run a faster HIM run, ie sub 1:35?
If so you probably need to improve your dot by about 4 points which is not something done overnight. I found 2 points per season was more reasonable
If it were me I would take a lot nager term view of a plan

First of all, the ramp rate and load you are talking about is a recipe for injury.. you aren't young and say you have been injured in the past. I'd be careful
I would personally try to figure out my strengths and weakness and build a plan broken into periods and work on specifics per period.
I would also consider other forms of training like strength, plyometrics, flexibility work to complement my run volume. Intensity at one point is needed but the workouts need a purpose.
I may ask for some simple gait analysis
Follow Ben's advice and nail your training paces

I went from a 1:33 open hm to 1:28 and it translated to a 1:35him run at 50 years old. Not fast but probably what you are looking for. But I did it under the guidance of someone that knew what he was doing and for sure I would have injured myself had I done the "throw every workout at it/volume approach"

Be careful!


Pink : hire h20 as a run coach


Edited by marcag 2017-08-08 5:49 AM
2017-08-08 8:14 AM
in reply to: zedzded

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by zedzded 
Originally posted by brigby1 I tend to look at Daniels VDOT to assist in pace determination. The previous stand alone events would be about 49, for a pace of almost 7/mile. A little slower is fine too, particularly if this is more like 30 minutes or more than 20 to complete.

Is the 15x400 the only interval set being run? For the type of work you'd probably want, 400's would be more introductory to it, but that's a lot of them for it. At your speed, 800-1200's should put you in 3-5' per interval. Total work time of 15-20 tends to be good. Maybe a little more with decent mileage being handled well for some time. Recovery about the same as work time.

Asking again here about the amount being done, are you almost becoming a runner at this point? Two higher intensity workouts (tempo at moderate still counts) tends to be quite a bit for a triathlete. One decent one can still do a lot. Also looking at doing the same hard workouts all the time. Are those just examples?

Any strides on the easy days?

What do you mean am a almost becoming a runner? Because of the volume? My next big race is a 70.3 in december and want to do well in that, but running needs to get sorted out, not a problem if I ease back on the swim and bike for the time being, but I will start doing both more in a few weeks when I join a 70.3 squad for the 12 week program. Most of my running is easy running, I've had a few injuries in the past so am conscious of pushing too hard especially now I've doubled my mileage.

Partly from volume, but more so with how much training revolves around running at this point. Most don't have the time to do much else, though do. The multiple hard days would also tend to mean less activity elsewhere too.

And as another suggested, careful with the ramp up since you've had some injuries in the past. The most important thing is just to be able to run regularly. Another reason to consider backing down on the frequency of harder running.

2017-08-08 8:49 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Pro
15488
500050005000100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by marcag I think your goal is to run a faster HIM run, ie sub 1:35? If so you probably need to improve your dot by about 4 points which is not something done overnight. I found 2 points per season was more reasonable If it were me I would take a lot nager term view of a plan First of all, the ramp rate and load you are talking about is a recipe for injury.. you aren't young and say you have been injured in the past. I'd be careful I would personally try to figure out my strengths and weakness and build a plan broken into periods and work on specifics per period. I would also consider other forms of training like strength, plyometrics, flexibility work to complement my run volume. Intensity at one point is needed but the workouts need a purpose. I may ask for some simple gait analysis Follow Ben's advice and nail your training paces I went from a 1:33 open hm to 1:28 and it translated to a 1:35him run at 50 years old. Not fast but probably what you are looking for. But I did it under the guidance of someone that knew what he was doing and for sure I would have injured myself had I done the "throw every workout at it/volume approach" Be careful! Pink : hire h20 as a run coach

I think that's pretty solid advice. ^^

With your body type you are already an overachiever, and your age, along with the fact that you've been down the injury road a few times, is working against you and will require that you proceed very slowly.  I don't think the 400's are doing you much good and they are a BIG load in your week.   I'd replace them with a fartleck run of longer length, and cut down the distance of the tempo run with a couple miles warm up and cool down before and after..... and if you want to keep the intervals I'd look at doing 1000 repeats every 3rd week or so. (maybe 6 of them at 5K pace.  Another thing that can be very helpful is 4-6 strides after your run workouts.  Ideally, you want to find a 100 yard VERY SLIGHT decline to do those on.....the idea is to build your pace as you run them, then walk back up and do another.  They can be gold for some people.

In the end, you're probably working on the edge of your capability right now and it would be a very good time to get a GOOD run coach.  To give you an example, I went back and looked at the summer maintenance workouts for a D! college XC/track team.......the work you are doing now is about week 6 of a 12 week program (without the 400's), and those are kids who are basically ONLY running.  To reiterate, you need to REALLY proceed cautiously.



Edited by Left Brain 2017-08-08 8:50 AM
2017-08-08 10:01 AM
in reply to: zedzded

User image


1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Improving run
You and I are in the same boat. Running is my weakest and our times are almost identical (just did a HIM at 30/2:22/1:42). Going into this race, I did my best shot at a run focus where I built myself up to just shy of 50 MPW and held it for 6 weeks before backing off prior to the race.

It didn't seem to help at all.

So I've been trying to figure out what I did wrong to adjust for it going into my next build to IMFL.

Obviously I don't know what I'm doing (or the first time around would have worked), so take my musings on this with a grain of salt. Here is what I think I did wrong the first time around:

- I spread out my run mileage through almost every day to build to a MPW goal. After every bike I ran between 4-6 miles, and every other day I ran anywhere from 8-14. I would go 7 days without anything less than 4 miles every day.
- My long runs were too long. I did 14-16 mile long runs and slogging along for that long at a slow pace made everything hurt. Mostly my joints. It took me days to feel right again after. Days I kept running (see point 1) and was getting no quality miles in.
- I ran too much too slow. I know I know...I'm going to get killed for this one, but for me, if I drop below a 9:00 MM my form goes to hell. I go from a comfortable easy stride to a very awkward hammering/slogging/flopping mess. The slower I would run, the worse I would feel after and the following days. My long runs were the slowest and they just destroyed me. I tried varying cadence and it didn't seem to help.
- I didn't take any recovery weeks during the build

Here's what I'm doing different going into IMFL.

- I'm maxing out my long run at 12 miles. For my long run day, I'm going to start doing two a days 12/1 morning/evening building to 12/4 with the morning run easy (but not forcibly easy like I did before...just comfortable) and the evening run quicker.
- I'm only doing 2 miles off the bike. These runs will be at a faster pace.
- Doing two longer runs (building to 10 miles each) on two other days, with a day in between. So my long run and two 10 milers will each have a day in between where I'll be biking with a short run after. These runs will be easy/comfortable.
- My entire training plan is 3 weeks on/ 1 week recovery.

My current plan has me building to the mid to high 40's. I'm don't have any speed work built in yet because I want to see how my body reacts first. If anything, I may put in some longer intervals in somewhere. I will also be doing strides after one to two runs a week.

My current build week (3 weeks of a 4 week cycle) will look like:

M: 4 mile easy run/ 4,000m swim
T: 12 mile run morning / 1,500m lunch swim / short faster run evening (starting after week 3 then building from 1 to 4 miles)
W: Sweat Spot Trainer (1:20)+2 mile transition run
T: 10 mile run easy+strides / 2,500m lunch swim
F: VO2 Max Trainer (0:50)+2 mile transition run
S: 10 mile run easy+strides / 2,500m swim
S: 70 mile long ride building to ~120

The main difference will be that my daily run mileage will go from something like: 4/14/6/8/4/8/6 to something like 4/12+4/2/10/2/10/0. I'm hoping the fluctuations will help the recovery.

I can't say whether this will work, but that's part of the fun for me (trying something new and seeing how it turns out). My basic philosophy is to break up the run mileage every other day giving myself time to recover rather than just throwing miles in every day to build to some MPW goal.

2017-08-08 10:47 AM
in reply to: zedzded

User image

Member
1748
100050010010025
Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Improving run
I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run.
I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest.

I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year.

At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race.

I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!




2017-08-08 11:04 AM
in reply to: mike761

User image

Pro
15488
500050005000100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by mike761 I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run. I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest. I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year. At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race. I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!

You're a long way from hurting s/b/r muscle mass........the 3 triathletes I am most familiar with are 6'4" and 155-160.....very, very fast.

2017-08-08 11:05 AM
in reply to: zedzded


1660
10005001002525
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by zedzded The run is my weakest leg and I'd like to improve that for the start of next season (November). I'm keen to hear what others did to improve their run and what gains they had. A recent 70.3 result was May (29/2.25/1.40) Swim was long and run was warmish - 85F. Typical weekly run mileage was 26 - 30 miles a week. I've now (as of last month) bumped that up to 45 - 50 miles a week, running most days and comprising: 1 long, easy run = 12 miles 2 x 7 mile easy -mod treadmill runs 1 x 7 - 9 mile tempo run 1 x intervals e.g 15 x 400m 1 easy recovery run, varies in pace and distance, around 7, 8 miles Run times as of May 2017: 5km - 20.20 10km - 41.50 HM - 1.34 HIM run - 1.40 I'd like to be running my HM under 1.30 and also sub 20/40 for 5 and 10km. HIM run I'd like to get to low 1.30s. Am I on the right track? Is the volume OK?

 

FWIW - I pretty much did exactly what you aspire to do in the last 4 years of my triathlon training.  

 

My HIM run was about 1:38-1:40, dropped to 1:33, and open HM from 1:35 to 1:27. 

 

I will say it was very hard for me to make that drop, as for me running a open HM at 1:35 is where my body likes to live at a reasonable 30-35mpw, whereas I'm definitely pushing my limits of everything at 70+mpw, which is what it took retraining as a pure runner to drop fro 1:35 to 1:27. I did that on a pure marathon training block. I kept some of that speed on lower mileage as I went back to HIM, but I will admit that I underbiked that race unintentionally, which set me up for a faster-than-normal run. There's no way I could run 70mpw on a triathlon training regimen. 

 

Guess my take home point that is was very hard for me to make that jump, and takes both a ton of pure running work and maintenance that I can't sustain as a triathlete. It may be different for you if you can run 1:35s on less training than me, but my rate of improvement really drops off like crazy after 40mpw run.

2017-08-08 11:21 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Member
1748
100050010010025
Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761 I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run. I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest. I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year. At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race. I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!

You're a long way from hurting s/b/r muscle mass........the 3 triathletes I am most familiar with are 6'4" and 155-160.....very, very fast.




Yes I know!! that's why I we need to drop weight
2017-08-08 11:25 AM
in reply to: mike761

User image

Pro
15488
500050005000100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Improving run

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mike761 I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run. I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest. I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year. At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race. I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!

You're a long way from hurting s/b/r muscle mass........the 3 triathletes I am most familiar with are 6'4" and 155-160.....very, very fast.

Yes I know!! that's why I we need to drop weight

Yeah, I know you were saying that.  I was just pointing out that you could go even further than 10 and not hurt yourself....ideally.....but as you noted as well, body type starts to come into play, and age, and genetics.....and it changes the formula on what is possible and realistic.

2017-08-08 11:30 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image


1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by Left Brain

body type starts to come into play, and age, and genetics.....and it changes the formula on what is possible and realistic.




As well as affinity for beer....or at least in my case.


2017-08-08 8:02 PM
in reply to: mike761


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by mike761

I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run.
I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest.

I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year.

At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race.

I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!





Yeah I can get down to around 160 for race day, but that's cutting out all alcohol, sugar, training 12 hours and I feel hangry all the time! Not exactly sure how I get down to 150, maybe give up food altogether ha ha. That said I have got a rugby mate who's 6'2 and 190+ who runs sub 1.20 HM. So perhaps there's hope for me!
2017-08-09 7:14 AM
in reply to: zedzded

User image

Member
1748
100050010010025
Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by zedzded

Originally posted by mike761

I'm right with you on the swim and bike but I can't touch your run.
I'm 3 years older, and i'm 5' 7" to 5' 8" my race weight is at about 165lbs. I have a stocky build with a 42" chest.

I don't put in the miles you do right now, maybe next year.

At our height and weight I can tell right now that we could both drop to about 150-155 without hurting out S/B/R specific muscle mass. That drop in weight would probably put you where you want to be on the run, as well as help a little on the bike. About 3 years ago I was in a university study for endurance athletes, I was at 167lbs and they measured me at 11%-12% body fat. That 10lbs is like strapping a gallon of milk around you waste before your race.

I also know it's a losing that last 10 lbs!





Yeah I can get down to around 160 for race day, but that's cutting out all alcohol, sugar, training 12 hours and I feel hangry all the time! Not exactly sure how I get down to 150, maybe give up food altogether ha ha. That said I have got a rugby mate who's 6'2 and 190+ who runs sub 1.20 HM. So perhaps there's hope for me!


Its a plateau you have to work through, our bodies have spent many years at a higher weight and fat percentage and think that's where they need to be. About 7 years ago I got down under 160lbs and held it for about a month, the first week was not easy but after 4 weeks it felt normal again. Than winter hit and I slowly creeped back up
2017-08-10 8:09 AM
in reply to: mike761

User image

Extreme Veteran
5534
500050025
Subject: RE: Improving run
Weight makes a difference, a big difference.
But the ability to "run fast" has other factors that we can also train.
IMO Running economy is the biggest differentiator between the strong distance runners and the the slower.
If you want to research it, I would start here and be prepared to be overwhelmed with info as you dig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_economy
I did use the word distance to differentiate mile runners from 21k runners.
2017-08-10 9:25 PM
in reply to: marcag


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Improving run
Originally posted by marcag

Weight makes a difference, a big difference.
But the ability to "run fast" has other factors that we can also train.
IMO Running economy is the biggest differentiator between the strong distance runners and the the slower.
If you want to research it, I would start here and be prepared to be overwhelmed with info as you dig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_economy
I did use the word distance to differentiate mile runners from 21k runners.



Cool thanks, I'll have a read.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Improving run Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Improve swim with kicking?

Started by zedzded
Views: 1259 Posts: 12

2017-01-09 11:23 AM gary p

Swimming improving, running slowing?!

Started by JenP
Views: 587 Posts: 1

2016-08-09 10:45 AM JenP

Cold weather running clothes for men?

Started by stevemorey
Views: 3707 Posts: 16

2017-06-13 4:37 AM Hodalp46

foot tattoo and run/bike

Started by meggfishy
Views: 3379 Posts: 6

2017-03-09 3:28 PM joyfulcricket

Plantar warts interfering with run training

Started by nelson24
Views: 3832 Posts: 6

2017-03-23 5:05 AM bigbag
RELATED ARTICLES
date : January 31, 2017
author : MCurle
comments : 2
Marginal gains...Can it be applied to the weekend warrior?