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2018-06-28 8:16 AM

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Champion
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Subject: Socialism
"Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a millennial activist from the Bronx, has stunned the Democratic Party after beating 10-term incumbent Joe Crowley in a New York congressional primary."

"she graduated from Boston University with a degree in economics and international relations, before moving back to the Bronx and working as a waitress"

OK first off, kids take note! If you are going to spend 4 years of your life and a hundred grand on your education, major in something that qualifies you to get a real job! Engineering, nursing, education, geology, law, medicine, computer science.....

"Ocasio-Cortez is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America"

Not sure what a Democrat Socialist is but it sounds like it is the far left extreme of the democrat party. Socialism used to be dirty word....right up there wit communism and fascism but evidently millennials did not get the memo. Bernie, another self proclaimed socialist, got the support of millennials. So me, socialism is for people who are incapable of competing in the real world and need the gubment to provide for them. It's the everyone-gets-a-trophy ideology run amuck!


2018-06-28 9:57 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Socialism

These are people who want a world without borders.....to include our country.  They want the elimination of all immigration and border enforcement.  They will likely become the face of the Democrat party. 

That's fine with me, at least they're honest.  The fight for this country can then be out in the open.



Edited by Left Brain 2018-06-28 9:58 AM
2018-06-28 3:20 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Champion
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Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Socialism

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

2018-06-28 3:46 PM
in reply to: briderdt

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall




Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
2018-06-29 12:20 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall




Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!


Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

2018-06-29 2:13 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Hahahaha.... then will you please tell everyone to stop trying to come here.


2018-06-29 2:32 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Yet for some strange reason everyone either wants to come here and have us send them aid and military support.  go figure.

2018-06-29 2:51 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Champion
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Albuquerque, New Mexico
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.

2018-06-29 4:23 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.




Don't get me wrong. I think the US is a great country. Like every country it has it's pros and cons

But there are countries in which quality of life (on average) is greater. And many of the things on that list are implemented in them.

But it doesn't take away that the US is a great country to live in. Just not top 10.



2018-06-29 4:57 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.

Don't get me wrong. I think the US is a great country. Like every country it has it's pros and cons But there are countries in which quality of life (on average) is greater. And many of the things on that list are implemented in them. But it doesn't take away that the US is a great country to live in. Just not top 10.

The problem is for everything you add you have to take something away.  You're correct that there are countries that have better access to care, but they also have no healthcare innovation and typically longer waits, etc.  The US provides a large majority of the healthcare innovation because of the very model everybody wants to destroy.
I actually agree with a few of the items because I feel they need to be improved with minimal impact, but overall things are pretty good for the poor here.

2018-06-29 6:57 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Champion
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Albuquerque, New Mexico
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.

Don't get me wrong. I think the US is a great country. Like every country it has it's pros and cons But there are countries in which quality of life (on average) is greater. And many of the things on that list are implemented in them. But it doesn't take away that the US is a great country to live in. Just not top 10.

My point is:  If I were merely CONSUMING universal healthcare, universal housing, universal higher education, universal child care, universal senior care, (and let's go ahead and throw in universal nourishment), it's a sweet deal and I wouldn't ever have to grow up and be responsible for anything.  

As a value creator (i.e. WORKER), I'd much rather live here where 30% of my income goes to the government and I have great flexibility with how I spend the remaining 70% (I can buy a 10 mpg SUV or a 3500 square foot house with a pool if I choose.) compared to the place where 80% of my income goes to the government for these universal services and the meager 20% I keep is further restricted by "soft" policies (i.e consumption taxes that discourage a 10 mpg SUV).  

Price and the ability to pay is only one means to allocate or ration resources.  If I'm a mediocre student, I can still pay $150K to become a mediocre engineer here, but I'm completely locked out of that option in most places with that coveted "universal higher education" (which I pay for whether I can use it or not).  

The capitalism here in the US is pretty harsh on those who don't make good decisions, but it works out pretty well for those of us who do.  For most of us 2-50 percenters, the US IS in the top-10 for quality of life.  



2018-07-01 2:37 PM
in reply to: McFuzz

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Champion
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500050001002525
Alabama
Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.

Don't get me wrong. I think the US is a great country. Like every country it has it's pros and cons But there are countries in which quality of life (on average) is greater. And many of the things on that list are implemented in them. But it doesn't take away that the US is a great country to live in. Just not top 10.

My point is:  If I were merely CONSUMING universal healthcare, universal housing, universal higher education, universal child care, universal senior care, (and let's go ahead and throw in universal nourishment), it's a sweet deal and I wouldn't ever have to grow up and be responsible for anything.  

As a value creator (i.e. WORKER), I'd much rather live here where 30% of my income goes to the government and I have great flexibility with how I spend the remaining 70% (I can buy a 10 mpg SUV or a 3500 square foot house with a pool if I choose.) compared to the place where 80% of my income goes to the government for these universal services and the meager 20% I keep is further restricted by "soft" policies (i.e consumption taxes that discourage a 10 mpg SUV).  

Price and the ability to pay is only one means to allocate or ration resources.  If I'm a mediocre student, I can still pay $150K to become a mediocre engineer here, but I'm completely locked out of that option in most places with that coveted "universal higher education" (which I pay for whether I can use it or not).  

The capitalism here in the US is pretty harsh on those who don't make good decisions, but it works out pretty well for those of us who do.  For most of us 2-50 percenters, the US IS in the top-10 for quality of life.  




Well said.
2018-07-01 2:45 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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23

Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by McFuzz

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by briderdt

The laundry-list of demands:

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education for All
Women’s Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

Good lord! These people have gone off the deep end!
Take the list of the top 10 countries to live in the world and they probably cover most of this list.

Live in?  Yes.
Work in?  Notsomuch.

Don't get me wrong. I think the US is a great country. Like every country it has it's pros and cons But there are countries in which quality of life (on average) is greater. And many of the things on that list are implemented in them. But it doesn't take away that the US is a great country to live in. Just not top 10.

The problem is for everything you add you have to take something away.  You're correct that there are countries that have better access to care, but they also have no healthcare innovation and typically longer waits, etc.  The US provides a large majority of the healthcare innovation because of the very model everybody wants to destroy.
I actually agree with a few of the items because I feel they need to be improved with minimal impact, but overall things are pretty good for the poor here.

 

I would agree with you Tony that things are pretty good for the poor.  They could be better (couldn't lots of things) but where it appears to fall short is for those who aren't classified as poor but still need help.  There are many families I know that make just a smidge too much for any kind of help (i.e. they go to food banks because they don't qualify for help with groceries) .  A good example would be my son.  He is 31 and lives with his girlfriend.  He works 2 jobs (60 hours per week on average) and his girlfriend has her own business.  They don't get benefits at work like healthcare or retirement.  After they pay bills (rent, gas, electricity, few groceries and gas for vehicles) they usually only have $20 left between them for the rest of the month.  They don't qualify for healthcare help because they make $75 too much a month!!!!

I am a registered Democrat but tend to lean socialist in some matters.  I believe in each of the listed issues, TO SOME DEGREE!  I don't agree with a federal jobs guarantee.  I am not guaranteed a job any given day.  Here in IL it is a right to work state.  If my boss comes in and decides that he doesn't like my management style that day I can be sent packing and it has happened!  I have to find a job and I have to be the one that keeps it by playing by the rules.  I should fully disclose that I am a known rebel and following rules has never been my strong suit!    

I do not think we need to abolish ICE but there has got to be a better way to accomplish their goals without separating families and without taking away the possibility of asylum.  Some of the people coming into our land (melting pot) are looking for something better than what their land can offer.  Much like our ancestors were.  

I am absolutely all for LBGTQ rights!  Everyone should be able to be who God intended and made them to be.  Even Pope Francis believes this!  Lots of my friends fall into this category and I love them unconditionally and that is returned.  They will always have my back and I will always have theirs.

I think that is where I will end for now.  There is always room for improvement no matter which side of the aisle you sit on.  If people can't see that then they need to move along as they are holding up progress to make everyone better.  I think 45 is in the way of progress.

 

2018-07-01 6:57 PM
in reply to: Faerie66

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by Faerie66
They don't qualify for healthcare help because they make $75 too much a month!!!!


God forbid they have a serious medical issue. What happens in a case like that ?

Pardon my ignorance, I am from Canada.
2018-07-01 7:15 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Faerie66 They don't qualify for healthcare help because they make $75 too much a month!!!!
God forbid they have a serious medical issue. What happens in a case like that ? Pardon my ignorance, I am from Canada.

They do what they can at home.  He has gone to the hospital once for a minor heart attack and I told him about a catholic charity that helps people with their medical bills and they have helped him with it. 

With the new list of pre-existing conditions that won't be covered I won't have insurance either (depression, anxiety and arthritis

2018-07-01 7:51 PM
in reply to: Faerie66

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by Faerie66

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Faerie66 They don't qualify for healthcare help because they make $75 too much a month!!!!
God forbid they have a serious medical issue. What happens in a case like that ? Pardon my ignorance, I am from Canada.

They do what they can at home.  He has gone to the hospital once for a minor heart attack and I told him about a catholic charity that helps people with their medical bills and they have helped him with it. 

With the new list of pre-existing conditions that won't be covered I won't have insurance either (depression, anxiety and arthritis




Do both parties agree that everyone should have access to health care ?


2018-07-01 9:46 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Everyone in the US has healthcare, it's mandated by law.
2018-07-01 10:26 PM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by mdg2003 Everyone in the US has healthcare, it's mandated by law.

Dude....before Obamacare people were dying in the streets.

2018-07-02 7:00 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Socialism

you joke, but people die in the streets every day...

2018-07-02 7:16 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by mdg2003

Everyone in the US has healthcare, it's mandated by law.


So the case above, where the lady's son didn't have insurance. How does that work ?
Does he get healthcare ? If he can't afford it, who pays ? It sounds like he found a charity to help him.
Otherwise does he just go into debt ?

Sincerely curious to understand how it works because it's always presented that the poor are screwed if they get sick





Edited by marcag 2018-07-02 7:37 AM
2018-07-02 7:44 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by dmiller5

you joke, but people die in the streets every day...




Hey Dave is back!

The socialist/democrats are pushing for free college tuition, free health care, free housing...... I love the saying, "Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else."

RE health care. Emergency rooms cannot refuse service to anyone. As far are other medical issues, 50 years ago in 1965 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Medicare bill, turning the national social security healthcare program for older Americans into law. Medicaid in the United States is a joint federal and state program that helps with medical costs for some people with limited income and resources.

The target of Obamacare was the people who made too much money to qualify for Medicaid but did not have health insurance. Part of that is because they choose to have the latest iPhone and go to Disneyworld instead of buying insurance. But there are other families who simply did not make enough to pay the rent and bills and buy groceries and still have enough for health insurance. My 'fix' for healthcare would have been to raise the income levels for which a families qualify for Medicaid. Then there are young people who could afford health insurance but, being young and healthy, simply chose not to buy health insurance.

So I would say yes, everyone in the USA has 'access' to healthcare.

The media is making a big deal out of that woman from the Bronx who is a socialist - in her ideology in not by name - and see her win as an indication the democrat party is moving further to the left. It's one thing to win a seat in a liberal NYC district but I would not extrapolate that to the rest of the country. To do so would mean a red tide in November.





2018-07-02 8:13 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by mdg2003

Everyone in the US has healthcare, it's mandated by law.


So the case above, where the lady's son didn't have insurance. How does that work ?
Does he get healthcare ? If he can't afford it, who pays ? It sounds like he found a charity to help him.
Otherwise does he just go into debt ?

Sincerely curious to understand how it works because it's always presented that the poor are screwed if they get sick






Seems to me they broke the law. The law requires that everyone have insurance in the US and the President obama made healthcare affordable for everyone in the US. My healthcare plan through my company went up an additional 500 bucks a year, so I know I'm helping subsidize affordable care for those that cant even afford the affordable healthcare provided by obamacare. I'm sorry the people in the example provided broke the law and will go into debt, but affordable and legally mandated healthcare is available for all US citizens.
2018-07-02 8:15 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by dmiller5

you joke, but people die in the streets every day...




We're discussing healthcare, not gun violence in Chicago.
2018-07-02 8:16 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Socialism

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by dmiller5

you joke, but people die in the streets every day...

Hey Dave is back! The socialist/democrats are pushing for free college tuition, free health care, free housing...... I love the saying, "Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else." RE health care. Emergency rooms cannot refuse service to anyone. As far are other medical issues, 50 years ago in 1965 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Medicare bill, turning the national social security healthcare program for older Americans into law. Medicaid in the United States is a joint federal and state program that helps with medical costs for some people with limited income and resources. The target of Obamacare was the people who made too much money to qualify for Medicaid but did not have health insurance. Part of that is because they choose to have the latest iPhone and go to Disneyworld instead of buying insurance. But there are other families who simply did not make enough to pay the rent and bills and buy groceries and still have enough for health insurance. My 'fix' for healthcare would have been to raise the income levels for which a families qualify for Medicaid. Then there are young people who could afford health insurance but, being young and healthy, simply chose not to buy health insurance. So I would say yes, everyone in the USA has 'access' to healthcare. The media is making a big deal out of that woman from the Bronx who is a socialist - in her ideology in not by name - and see her win as an indication the democrat party is moving further to the left. It's one thing to win a seat in a liberal NYC district but I would not extrapolate that to the rest of the country. To do so would mean a red tide in November.

My son falls into that bolded area.  Splurging for him is to be able to go out to eat at a sit down restaurant (NOT fast food).  I would love for him to be able to afford healthcare because of his history but I am also realistic and know that he just can't.  The temps here have been in the upper 90s with heat index of 115 for the last week and they don't have AC.  The house fan switch went out and the landlady hasn't gotten it fixed yet.  They won't stay the night here but they do come over and spend a couple of hours in the evening in the AC  (which I have set at 82).  

Like I said I tend to lean left just not as far as a lot of people.  Everything in moderation.

2018-07-02 8:31 AM
in reply to: Faerie66

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Subject: RE: Socialism
Originally posted by Faerie66

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by dmiller5

you joke, but people die in the streets every day...

Hey Dave is back! The socialist/democrats are pushing for free college tuition, free health care, free housing...... I love the saying, "Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else." RE health care. Emergency rooms cannot refuse service to anyone. As far are other medical issues, 50 years ago in 1965 President Lyndon Johnson signed the Medicare bill, turning the national social security healthcare program for older Americans into law. Medicaid in the United States is a joint federal and state program that helps with medical costs for some people with limited income and resources. The target of Obamacare was the people who made too much money to qualify for Medicaid but did not have health insurance. Part of that is because they choose to have the latest iPhone and go to Disneyworld instead of buying insurance. But there are other families who simply did not make enough to pay the rent and bills and buy groceries and still have enough for health insurance. My 'fix' for healthcare would have been to raise the income levels for which a families qualify for Medicaid. Then there are young people who could afford health insurance but, being young and healthy, simply chose not to buy health insurance. So I would say yes, everyone in the USA has 'access' to healthcare. The media is making a big deal out of that woman from the Bronx who is a socialist - in her ideology in not by name - and see her win as an indication the democrat party is moving further to the left. It's one thing to win a seat in a liberal NYC district but I would not extrapolate that to the rest of the country. To do so would mean a red tide in November.

My son falls into that bolded area.  Splurging for him is to be able to go out to eat at a sit down restaurant (NOT fast food).  I would love for him to be able to afford healthcare because of his history but I am also realistic and know that he just can't.  The temps here have been in the upper 90s with heat index of 115 for the last week and they don't have AC.  The house fan switch went out and the landlady hasn't gotten it fixed yet.  They won't stay the night here but they do come over and spend a couple of hours in the evening in the AC  (which I have set at 82).  

Like I said I tend to lean left just not as far as a lot of people.  Everything in moderation.




I'd hold this months rent check back until the fan switch was fixed!
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