Illegal Immigration & Renting

Champion

5529

Nashville, TN

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 3:22 PM

ADollar79 - 2006-11-14 2:14 PM

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 3:06 PM

ADollar79 - 2006-11-14 1:59 PM

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 2:35 PM All they have to do is prove citizenship or right to be in the country. That is all. If they present papers that say they are here legally they can be rented to. If the landlord has these papers they can't be fined even if the papers are fraudulent. It works the same way when they get a job.

So are you now saying that our landlords should have the power/burden to certify which documents are legal and which ones aren't?

I don't get that from my post, and if you do you didn't read it well. I was mentioning that it isn't as big a deal as it is being made out to be. Most of them have fraudulent papers already. This covers the landlord cause they don't know if they are fraudulent or not. They just have to prove that they were asked for and were presented with what appeared to be correct documentation. It works the same way with employment. Most companies don't know they have illegals working for them until the IRS comes back and says this is not a valid Social Security Number.

My point is that if I am a landlord:

1). Why do I care if my tenants are legal or illegal immigrants who pay their rent on time and pump money INTO the local economy?

2). Now the government is going to fine ME because I was unable to distinguish between a valid and fraudulent set of papers.

My whole issue with immigration is that there are similiar issues across the board regarding people without insurance driving, people taking advantage of free healthcare, people presenting fraudulent identification to achieve other purposes. Why aren't we talking about the issues holistically instead of segmented a particular sect of the population, which by association, includes a number of LEGAL citizens.

OK perhaps I'm not being clear enough. The government will not fine you if you ask for proof and are given said proof. You do not....Repeat....You do not have to know how to identify fraudulent papers in order to rent to someone. If you are told by said government that the person is illegal and you do not force them to move out and allow them to stay being presented with different papers then you will be fined. Just like if you hire someone who has given you a social security card and are told that it is not valid and rehire the person under a different fraudulent document. You will be fined. It happens everyday in businesses. My mother who is a Human Resources Director had to leave a company because they kept hiring the same people back with fraudulent documents. The hopes are that if we make it harder for them it will eliminate a lot of the other problems that are takiing place. This is just one town. A town among many in the US that have implimented siimiliar laws mind you but still just one town.

I understand that in this case (though it can't be inferred from the article alone) the burden might not be strictly on the landlord, but in a number of other towns, cities and states similiar legislation is passed putting business owners in uncomfortable positions. It still begs the question, if I am a landlord, why do I care?

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Elite

3972

Reno

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

I will be surprised and dissappointed if this stands up to legal review. This isn't a matter of immigration policy as it is a civil liberties.

It is hard enough as an employer to verify legal status - how are individuals supposed to do it. As an employer, there is support to do this - I can verify SS#'s through an internet site, which comes up negative on documents that I would think were good. As a land lord, who am I supposed to deal with this? And what new government agency will be formed at our cost to administer this?

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

Or do only the brown people or people with an accent have to do this?

I really don't want to support illegal immigration, but I do support the civil liberties of citizens.

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Extreme Veteran

474

DFW Metroplex

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

ADollar79 - 2006-11-14 2:31 PM

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 3:22 PM

ADollar79 - 2006-11-14 2:14 PM

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 3:06 PM

ADollar79 - 2006-11-14 1:59 PM

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 2:35 PM All they have to do is prove citizenship or right to be in the country. That is all. If they present papers that say they are here legally they can be rented to. If the landlord has these papers they can't be fined even if the papers are fraudulent. It works the same way when they get a job.

So are you now saying that our landlords should have the power/burden to certify which documents are legal and which ones aren't?

I don't get that from my post, and if you do you didn't read it well. I was mentioning that it isn't as big a deal as it is being made out to be. Most of them have fraudulent papers already. This covers the landlord cause they don't know if they are fraudulent or not. They just have to prove that they were asked for and were presented with what appeared to be correct documentation. It works the same way with employment. Most companies don't know they have illegals working for them until the IRS comes back and says this is not a valid Social Security Number.

My point is that if I am a landlord:

1). Why do I care if my tenants are legal or illegal immigrants who pay their rent on time and pump money INTO the local economy?

2). Now the government is going to fine ME because I was unable to distinguish between a valid and fraudulent set of papers.

My whole issue with immigration is that there are similiar issues across the board regarding people without insurance driving, people taking advantage of free healthcare, people presenting fraudulent identification to achieve other purposes. Why aren't we talking about the issues holistically instead of segmented a particular sect of the population, which by association, includes a number of LEGAL citizens.

OK perhaps I'm not being clear enough. The government will not fine you if you ask for proof and are given said proof. You do not....Repeat....You do not have to know how to identify fraudulent papers in order to rent to someone. If you are told by said government that the person is illegal and you do not force them to move out and allow them to stay being presented with different papers then you will be fined. Just like if you hire someone who has given you a social security card and are told that it is not valid and rehire the person under a different fraudulent document. You will be fined. It happens everyday in businesses. My mother who is a Human Resources Director had to leave a company because they kept hiring the same people back with fraudulent documents. The hopes are that if we make it harder for them it will eliminate a lot of the other problems that are takiing place. This is just one town. A town among many in the US that have implimented siimiliar laws mind you but still just one town.

I understand that in this case (though it can't be inferred from the article alone) the burden might not be strictly on the landlord, but in a number of other towns, cities and states similiar legislation is passed putting business owners in uncomfortable positions. It still begs the question, if I am a landlord, why do I care?

Because now it is against the law.

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Champion

6999

Chicago, Illinois

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

I would not personally want to rent to someone who was knownly illegal anyways. It would be very differcult to sue for damages to the property or back rent if there is a problem. Can you have legal protection as a landlord?

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Champion

5529

Nashville, TN

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

bootygirl - 2006-11-14 3:33 PM

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

I agree 100%! Where do you draw the line? It seems that the government keeps encroaching more and more.

I don't know anyone who is pro-illegal immigration. However, I think we are having the wrong policy discussion when this topic is debated.

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Extreme Veteran

474

DFW Metroplex

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

bootygirl - 2006-11-14 2:33 PM

I will be surprised and dissappointed if this stands up to legal review. This isn't a matter of immigration policy as it is a civil liberties.

It is hard enough as an employer to verify legal status - how are individuals supposed to do it. As an employer, there is support to do this - I can verify SS#'s through an internet site, which comes up negative on documents that I would think were good. As a land lord, who am I supposed to deal with this? And what new government agency will be formed at our cost to administer this?

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

Or do only the brown people or people with an accent have to do this?

I really don't want to support illegal immigration, but I do support the civil liberties of citizens.

Why should you be privy to the rights of the citizens of this country if you just wondered across the border into this country illegally. This is what is costing us an arm and a leg is they are coming over here taking advantage of the things that we pay for and is just costing us more and more. Keep in mind this is just a town in Texas. This is not the Federal Government that is doing this, however if the Government would impliment a valid immigration plan cities would not have to pass laws like this.

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Runner

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

bootygirl - 2006-11-14 3:33 PM

I will be surprised and dissappointed if this stands up to legal review. This isn't a matter of immigration policy as it is a civil liberties.

It is hard enough as an employer to verify legal status - how are individuals supposed to do it. As an employer, there is support to do this - I can verify SS#'s through an internet site, which comes up negative on documents that I would think were good. As a land lord, who am I supposed to deal with this? And what new government agency will be formed at our cost to administer this?

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

Or do only the brown people or people with an accent have to do this?

I really don't want to support illegal immigration, but I do support the civil liberties of citizens.

Buying groceries doesn't enter you into a legally binding contract.

This is a local ordinance, not a federal one. So. no new gov't jobs or positions.

Civil liberties are great, for the civil populace. They are not intended for someone who is not a legal member of that society. If I move to a country, and never become a legal citizen there, which also means I'm not paying taxes there, should I expect to receive all the same rights and benefits of a legal citizen? No.

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Extreme Veteran

474

DFW Metroplex

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

Scout7 - 2006-11-14 2:45 PM

bootygirl - 2006-11-14 3:33 PM

I will be surprised and dissappointed if this stands up to legal review. This isn't a matter of immigration policy as it is a civil liberties.

It is hard enough as an employer to verify legal status - how are individuals supposed to do it. As an employer, there is support to do this - I can verify SS#'s through an internet site, which comes up negative on documents that I would think were good. As a land lord, who am I supposed to deal with this? And what new government agency will be formed at our cost to administer this?

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

Or do only the brown people or people with an accent have to do this?

I really don't want to support illegal immigration, but I do support the civil liberties of citizens.

Buying groceries doesn't enter you into a legally binding contract. This is a local ordinance, not a federal one. So. no new gov't jobs or positions. Civil liberties are great, for the civil populace. They are not intended for someone who is not a legal member of that society. If I move to a country, and never become a legal citizen there, which also means I'm not paying taxes there, should I expect to receive all the same rights and benefits of a legal citizen? No.

Well said.

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Champion

6999

Chicago, Illinois

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

not that they do not have a valid immigration plan the problem is they did not enforce what they already have and that is creating the problem. Business likes illegals because they are cheaper. Plus with them being cheapier they drive down wages of every other employee. Plus you can fire them without just cause and many other things because its hard to get protection under the law when you can not go to the law for help.

My Race Log

Master

2006

Portland, ME

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

3558 - 2006-11-14 1:47 PM

My point of reference is Fair Housing Act as it relates to USDA financed property. There are citizenship declaration when it comes to HUD housing but again it is not used to deny housing.

So is the USDA saying (since its "their" property) that "we have already verified legal status stop asking?" I'm confused.

No, the properties are privately owned and underwritten/subsidized by governement funds. Landlords or management companies are required to screen all tenants by following housing regulations. The tenants are not prescreened by the governement. Legal status is not verified nor is it an allowable condition for rent approval purposes under USDA housing regulations.

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Elite

3972

Reno

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

C-Ray - 2006-11-14 2:46 PM

Scout7 - 2006-11-14 2:45 PM

bootygirl - 2006-11-14 3:33 PM

I will be surprised and dissappointed if this stands up to legal review. This isn't a matter of immigration policy as it is a civil liberties.

It is hard enough as an employer to verify legal status - how are individuals supposed to do it. As an employer, there is support to do this - I can verify SS#'s through an internet site, which comes up negative on documents that I would think were good. As a land lord, who am I supposed to deal with this? And what new government agency will be formed at our cost to administer this?

Also, why should I have to prove my status to everyone I do business with? Next we will have to show proof of legal status to buy groceries, join a gym, go to the doctor, get a pedicure. And the business owner gets kicked again trying to administer this.

Or do only the brown people or people with an accent have to do this?

I really don't want to support illegal immigration, but I do support the civil liberties of citizens.

Buying groceries doesn't enter you into a legally binding contract. This is a local ordinance, not a federal one. So. no new gov't jobs or positions. Civil liberties are great, for the civil populace. They are not intended for someone who is not a legal member of that society. If I move to a country, and never become a legal citizen there, which also means I'm not paying taxes there, should I expect to receive all the same rights and benefits of a legal citizen? No.

Well said.

So you think that the legaly binding contract makes it different? If I pay by credit card, it I am agreeing to a contract. Joining a gym involves a contract. And the court systems that are already overloaded now deciding if I required the right paper work? Will I have to file everytime I get a new tennent, and someone has to review and file my file? Yes, this will put more strain on local governments and the local people will pay for it or lose services in other places.

I suppose you love giving every pimple faced kid with a clerk job your SS# on demand or showing your ID every time you use your signed visa card (against credit card agreements with Mastercard, Visa and I think American Express).

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Elite Veteran

1817

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

What you have here is a clif notes version of why illegal immigration is an issue with no resolution in this country.

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Expert

994

Dallas, TX

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

I think it's a crappy law because it can basically give license to not rent to any minority or immigrant, despite their status.

How dare they pay rent for a place to live.

My Race Log

Pro

4481

Reston

Subject: RE: Illegal Immigration & Renting

sebjamesm - 2006-11-14 6:42 PMI think it's a crappy law because it can basically give license to not rent to any minority or immigrant, despite their status.

What is the basis for that argument? A landlord can't just "not rent" to someone because they don't feel like it. That is the purpose of the Fair Housing Act, to prevent such practices. However, illegal immigrants are not a protected class (nor should they be IMO). The law in question addresses illegal immigrants, not "minorities or immigrants" who have legal status in this country.

Edited by 3558 2006-11-14 6:10 PM

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Illegal Immigration & Renting (Page 2)

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