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The Run Always Suffers...
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 2009-08-25 12:48 AM |
Veteran  202  Los Angeles, CA |  Subject: The Run Always Suffers...Hey All, Hoping to get some wisdom here from you guys. I've done 3 tris to date, two olys and the SB Long Course last Saturday. The one thing in common with them all is that the run REALLY suffered. On my first I died about 2 miles into the run, and some how mustered up the gusto to run out the last 5k. My second Oly I ran the whole thing, but felt like crap the entire way, running way slower than I would have liked. In SB I ended up walking for 5 or so minutes around 3 miles in and had to dig so deep to finish under my goal time. So...I really want to figure this run thing out before Malibu in a few weeks. I came into tri with a few marathons under my belt. I'm not a very fast runner, but I like to think I know how to suffer.  So I have two possible issues...one is the acid reflux/gas (upper chest tightness) I get off the bike. I've been taking in Gel Blasts and Honey Stingers on the bike along with Cytomax and Water. Maybe it's nutritional? Or perhaps I'm just hammering the bike too hard? I'm pretty new to cycling, and have seen some nice improvements. I always try to push pretty hard on the bike...maybe I'm not conserving enough for the run? I'd be very eager to hear your thoughts as I'd love to have a strong run at my last tri of my season...Malibu Oly (2.5 weeks from now!) Thanks for any advice! Cody |
| 2009-08-25 6:17 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
Champion 9407  Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... I would suspect that you went too hard on the bike (or both swim and bike) and as a result encountered some difficulties on the run. |
| 2009-08-25 7:26 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
| Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... For an Oly, you don't need all that stuff on the bike - two different kinds of gels AND sports drink? For a 25 mile ride, that's way too much, unless the bike leg takes you over 2 hours to complete. It's probably all the sugar that's giving you the reflux. And maybe those products don't sit well with you - maybe try something else. I wouldn't mix the gels with the sports drink either - choose one carb source, not both. Esp. not for an Oly. |
| 2009-08-25 9:21 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
Expert 2555  Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... Since you're relatively new to biking you may be pushing harder than you have the fitness for, thus draining all your energy and leaving you nothing for the run. It doesn't really seem like a nutrition issue. Short term you could back off on the bike a little. Long term you would train more on the bike. Training more on the bike would allow you to get to the point that you can push it and still feel fresh after a 40K ride. That takes lots of training and the people who have that ability are likely putting in 150-200+ miles/week that includes some serious interval training. Needless to say that while you're putting in all the bike training, you would still need to maintain run training as well. Add in the swimming and it all chews up a serious amount of time. |
| 2009-08-25 9:26 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... All great advice above.  If we would see some history of your training... and compare that to your race...it would give us and you more insight as to what is really happening. More than likely, it's the lack of bike fitness and pushing too hard on the bike that is making your run suffer. BUT we also need to see what kind of run training you are doing. What are your per minute miles in training compared to race day? Are you pushing it too hard early in the run which means you die at at the end? Also, are you doing bricks in training? Good luck at your next tri! |
| 2009-08-25 9:28 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... Do more 'Race Specific Bricks', go hard on the bike, then run. It should help you get more dialed in with your nutrition and pacing. |
| 2009-08-25 9:49 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
Member 35 | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... I raced two days ago and ran pretty slow. Much slower than I wanted to. I pushed real hard on the bike and finished with a good bike time. But my run suffered. My plan is to start hitting the brick workouts a little harder and become more used to running on worn out legs. |
| 2009-08-25 10:14 AM in reply to: #2368959 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... highfyre - 2009-08-25 10:49 AM I raced two days ago and ran pretty slow. Much slower than I wanted to. I pushed real hard on the bike and finished with a good bike time. But my run suffered. My plan is to start hitting the brick workouts a little harder and become more used to running on worn out legs. That's not what you need to do. What you need to do is dial back on your bike effort (or improve your bike fitness in order to maintain that same effort). The advice above about doing some bricks in order to "dial-in" nutrition and pacing is good. Not because it will teach the person to run on worn out legs, but because it will teach them how hard they can bike so that they don't have to run on worn out legs. |
| 2009-08-25 11:30 AM in reply to: #2368353 |
| Extreme Veteran 562 | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... Having the same issue of blowing up on the run. Found out that I pushed too hard on the bike. My cadence and HR are much higher on the bike when I race compared to training. So I am training harder on the bike, and when racing on the bike, keeping the HR and cadence near training levels. Let you know after my next OLY on 9/20 if it works! |
| 2009-08-25 12:04 PM in reply to: #2368353 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... codythumbs - 2009-08-24 10:48 PM Hey All, Hoping to get some wisdom here from you guys. I've done 3 tris to date, two olys and the SB Long Course last Saturday. The one thing in common with them all is that the run REALLY suffered. On my first I died about 2 miles into the run, and some how mustered up the gusto to run out the last 5k. My second Oly I ran the whole thing, but felt like crap the entire way, running way slower than I would have liked. In SB I ended up walking for 5 or so minutes around 3 miles in and had to dig so deep to finish under my goal time. So...I really want to figure this run thing out before Malibu in a few weeks. I came into tri with a few marathons under my belt. I'm not a very fast runner, but I like to think I know how to suffer. So I have two possible issues...one is the acid reflux/gas (upper chest tightness) I get off the bike. I've been taking in Gel Blasts and Honey Stingers on the bike along with Cytomax and Water. Maybe it's nutritional? Or perhaps I'm just hammering the bike too hard? I'm pretty new to cycling, and have seen some nice improvements. I always try to push pretty hard on the bike...maybe I'm not conserving enough for the run? I'd be very eager to hear your thoughts as I'd love to have a strong run at my last tri of my season...Malibu Oly (2.5 weeks from now!) Thanks for any advice! Cody As far as the acid reflux/gas, I would suspect one of three things: Poor bike position, guzzling way too much stuff, and/or really tight gear. Possibly a combination, and my primary suspect would be position and guzzling. It sounds like you have way too much stuff, and if you are not in a great position, your stomach gets twisted around a bit. (Your stomach also shrinks during exercise, and if you are stuffing a bunch of stuff into it, it's gonna come back up. :D) If you are belchy/gassy, you may also be swallowing air during your swim, or swallowing air when you drink from your water bottle. I may be an anomaly, but for a sprint I've got one water bottle of Zym electrolyte, that I get about 1/2 way through, if that. For an Olympic, I might go through a full bottle plus one GU or similar. Hydrate as needed on the run. Second, I suspect that you are amped up, and really pushing the bike, and going faster than your training/fitness will support to lead into a good run. Dial it back just a notch. You want to be feeling like you are going hard, but that you could bump it up another level if needed. Good luck! John |
| 2009-08-25 11:59 PM in reply to: #2368353 |
Veteran 202 Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... Good suggestions guys. I'll definitely try biking a little slower. My half marathon pace is 8:20, and my runs have been more like 9:15ish...so I'd like to figure out a way to work the bike less. With all the training I've been doing on the bike it feels strange not pushing hard. How do you guys/gals temper your effort? I'm kinda a "ones peed" guy if you know what I mean.... And I should clarify...the bike in SB was 34 miles, hilly - my split was about 1:50. I took in two honey stingers, probably 5-6 gel blasts, maybe 8 oz of Cytomax and water. Still too much nutrition? I definitely want to work in more brick workouts before Malibu. I'm still in my first season, but this suffering run thing is definitely putting the breaks on the fun! I'm all for suffering, but I'm hoping to have a good 10k in Malibu. |
| 2009-08-26 1:18 AM in reply to: #2369440 |
Champion 5782 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: The Run Always Suffers... tkd.teacher - 2009-08-25 10:04 AM codythumbs - 2009-08-24 10:48 PM Hey All, Hoping to get some wisdom here from you guys. I've done 3 tris to date, two olys and the SB Long Course last Saturday. The one thing in common with them all is that the run REALLY suffered. On my first I died about 2 miles into the run, and some how mustered up the gusto to run out the last 5k. My second Oly I ran the whole thing, but felt like crap the entire way, running way slower than I would have liked. In SB I ended up walking for 5 or so minutes around 3 miles in and had to dig so deep to finish under my goal time. So...I really want to figure this run thing out before Malibu in a few weeks. I came into tri with a few marathons under my belt. I'm not a very fast runner, but I like to think I know how to suffer. So I have two possible issues...one is the acid reflux/gas (upper chest tightness) I get off the bike. I've been taking in Gel Blasts and Honey Stingers on the bike along with Cytomax and Water. Maybe it's nutritional? Or perhaps I'm just hammering the bike too hard? I'm pretty new to cycling, and have seen some nice improvements. I always try to push pretty hard on the bike...maybe I'm not conserving enough for the run? I'd be very eager to hear your thoughts as I'd love to have a strong run at my last tri of my season...Malibu Oly (2.5 weeks from now!) Thanks for any advice! Cody As far as the acid reflux/gas, I would suspect one of three things: Poor bike position, guzzling way too much stuff, and/or really tight gear. Possibly a combination, and my primary suspect would be position and guzzling. It sounds like you have way too much stuff, and if you are not in a great position, your stomach gets twisted around a bit. (Your stomach also shrinks during exercise, and if you are stuffing a bunch of stuff into it, it's gonna come back up. :D) If you are belchy/gassy, you may also be swallowing air during your swim, or swallowing air when you drink from your water bottle. I may be an anomaly, but for a sprint I've got one water bottle of Zym electrolyte, that I get about 1/2 way through, if that. For an Olympic, I might go through a full bottle plus one GU or similar. Hydrate as needed on the run. Second, I suspect that you are amped up, and really pushing the bike, and going faster than your training/fitness will support to lead into a good run. Dial it back just a notch. You want to be feeling like you are going hard, but that you could bump it up another level if needed. Good luck! John X2 to all of this...I think John's probably got it nailed here on both counts, but esp. on the hydration/nutrition issue. You're definitely not an anomaly, John...on an Oly, I take in maybe 18 oz. of sports drink and one gel on the bike (with another gel usually on the way out of T2). My initial reaction to the OP--esp. with the gastric issues--was that it sounds like an awful lot to be taking in on an Oly ride. |
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